Amazon launches Music HD with lossless streaming
Apr 30, 2020 at 9:02 PM Post #1,247 of 1,539

jambaj0e

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Qobuz vs Tidal (vs Amazon HD) - Frequency Spectrum Analysis

This is a good example of how much frequency is lost between Tidal, Qobuz, and Amazon Music HD compared to the original track of Daft Punk - Get Lucky

“Original” track @ 24 bit 88.2 kHz

1588294930114.png


Tidal Master: Daft Punk – Get Lucky @ MQA

1588294896746.png


Qobuz: Daft Punk – Get Lucky @ 24 bit 88.2 kHz

1588294917485.png


Amazon UltraHD desktop player (track listed as 24-bit 48 kHz)


1588294965937.png
 
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May 5, 2020 at 12:26 AM Post #1,248 of 1,539

james__bean

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While certainly interesting, I doubt many people can actually hear anything above 20,000Hz. (Personally I can't hear anything at 18kHz.)

Feel free to test yourself. (Note you should have the volume very low on your first run.)
https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_frequencycheckhigh.php

However, given the graphs that you've shown, my first thought is that none of the streaming services are actually providing bit perfect 24/88 (or better) flac. Given this, it seems like the more important factor in playback quality would be whether the application can do bit perfect playback of whatever source file it provides.

I haven't actually tried Qobuz yet, but from a pure playback perspective it seems like it would be the best. Maybe I'll give it a go this month.
 
May 5, 2020 at 2:02 AM Post #1,249 of 1,539

james__bean

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Welp, decided to pour myself some bourbon and try out Qobuz tonight. So first of all, I was wrong about audiokse.dll. Turns out, Wasapi in exclusive mode can be run through audiokse.dll and this is what Qobuz uses.

1588657865441.png


Second, this desktop app is the best in terms bit perfect playback support. Not only does it offer Wasapi and Wasapi exclusive mode, it also loaded the ASIO drivers for my HDV 820.
1588658458427.png

1588658504187.png

1588658487890.png

1588658534256.png
 
May 5, 2020 at 9:34 AM Post #1,250 of 1,539

SilverEars

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Welp, decided to pour myself some bourbon and try out Qobuz tonight. So first of all, I was wrong about audiokse.dll. Turns out, Wasapi in exclusive mode can be run through audiokse.dll and this is what Qobuz uses.

1588657865441.png

Second, this desktop app is the best in terms bit perfect playback support. Not only does it offer Wasapi and Wasapi exclusive mode, it also loaded the ASIO drivers for my HDV 820.
1588658458427.png
1588658504187.png
1588658487890.png
1588658534256.png
What does it mean when it runs through audiokse dll? How does Tidal run in comparison?
 
May 5, 2020 at 6:48 PM Post #1,251 of 1,539

james__bean

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What does it mean when it runs through audiokse dll? How does Tidal run in comparison?

Audiokse stands for Audio KS Endpoint which I assumed meant it was for kernel streaming. Its just a Microsoft library the application uses. Based on the name, I was assuming it was for kernel streaming but apparently it can be used for Wasapi. I have no idea about the differences between Tidal, Amazon Music, and Qobuz in terms of their actual implementation of exclusive mode. You would need code access to know that. I only know based on testing that Amazon music doesn't playback files at the proper frequency of the file, it uses whatever frequency Windows Audio Mixer is configured to.
 
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May 5, 2020 at 8:20 PM Post #1,252 of 1,539

jambaj0e

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Audiokse stands for Audio KS Endpoint which I assumed meant it was for kernel streaming. Its just a Microsoft library the application uses. Based on the name, I was assuming it was for kernel streaming but apparently it can be used for Wasapi. I have no idea about the differences between Tidal, Amazon Music, and Qobuz in terms of their actual implementation of exclusive mode. You would need code access to know that. I only know based on testing that Amazon music doesn't playback files at the proper frequency of the file, it uses whatever frequency Windows Audio Mixer is configured to.

Wait, so when you use Audio KSe, you can see that when you enable Exclusive Mode in Amazon Music HD, it's not actual Exclusive Mode, but still Windows Mixer?
 
May 5, 2020 at 11:01 PM Post #1,254 of 1,539

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May 5, 2020 at 11:43 PM Post #1,255 of 1,539

rkw

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I thought we've already concluded that Amazon exclusive mode is in fact "exclusive" (other sources are blocked from outputting to the device simultaneously, and therefore mixer is not involved), but not bit perfect (Windows may resample the stream).

The discussion about audiokse.dll is idle speculation and going nowhere. I'm speaking as a former Windows developer (transitioned to mobile long ago).
P.S. I Googled, and there is documentation about audiokse.dll here: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/audio/introduction-to-port-class (search "audiokse" in the page).
 
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May 6, 2020 at 3:34 PM Post #1,257 of 1,539

jambaj0e

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It doesn't show much, just that with exclusive mode on and a 24/192 track playing, the sampling rate doesn't change from 44100, which is where I have the Windows setting.

sampling rate.png

Well that doesn't show that it's NOT in Exclusive mode, just shows it's not Bit-Perfect.
 
May 6, 2020 at 8:38 PM Post #1,258 of 1,539

james__bean

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I thought we've already concluded that Amazon exclusive mode is in fact "exclusive" (other sources are blocked from outputting to the device simultaneously, and therefore mixer is not involved), but not bit perfect (Windows may resample the stream).

The discussion about audiokse.dll is idle speculation and going nowhere. I'm speaking as a former Windows developer (transitioned to mobile long ago).
P.S. I Googled, and there is documentation about audiokse.dll here: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/audio/introduction-to-port-class (search "audiokse" in the page).

Correct on all counts.
 
May 10, 2020 at 1:45 PM Post #1,260 of 1,539

SilverEars

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if i purchase a digital album on amazon HD, which is labelled 16,44 will it be exactly like a CD file or will it have any compromise like the streaming service?
If you purchased it, you can play it on other players like Foobar, no? If so, you can get bit perfect like any other file.

Only the Amazon HD app is gimped, anything played throught the stupid app.
 

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