[zorilon]

First of all it really depends on how revealing your headphones are.

The transducer (headphone) is the weakest link in the chain. In my experience, after the headphone (you can definitely tell the difference between them), the amplifier is the next link in the chain that with a correct, accurate headphone can be discerned. As other here have mentioned, the synergy between headphone and amp is important.

Only after you have a revealing headphone and a clean amp you can hear the difference between different DAC, which is very minor. In my experience I can better here the difference between different DAC sources then between DAC themselves. If you have a clean source (a streamer, clean powered USB laptop) the difference between DAC are minor, but they are there. The differences between good DAC are not in term of bass, midrange or highs but in term of clarity and separation of instruments, stereo imaging, soundstage depth.

I am surprised when I see expensive DACs that are reviewed using HD650 headphones, when with this headphone you can’t even know if a violin is in front left or front right.

 

[redrol]

Again, DAC != Analog amplification stage. I really think this the basis for people believing DACs sound different.

As far as the HD650... I don't agree. Sounds fine to me as far as positioning Left to Right.

 

[zorilon]

Again, DAC != Analog amplification stage. I really think this the basis for people believing DACs sound different.

As far as the HD650... I don't agree. Sounds fine to me as far as positioning Left to Right.

Yes, it sounds fine until you listen to a pair of HD800 or Hifiman Arya and begin to realize what a stereo imaging in a headphone should sound like.

 

[redrol]

Sounds fine to me means they image. Im sure there are better headphones out there.

 

[bigshot]

Only after you have a revealing headphone and a clean amp you can hear the difference between different DAC, which is very minor.

"Revealing" headphones will only reveal something that is there to be heard. The differences between DACs and amps is beyond minor. In almost every case, it is inaudible. The only way to know that is to perform a controlled listening test that eliminates bias and perceptual error. There are plenty of examples online of controlled tests that have revealed no differences. I've done controlled tests myself with "revealing" headphones and I haven't found any difference.

The differences people point to in anecdotal comments on Head-Fi are either impedance issues, sighted bias or perceptual error from too long a gap of time between samples, or level imbalances. Eliminate those issues and then see if you can hear a difference. I'll bet you can't.

 

[castleofargh]

Lets say you have an IEM with an impedance of 6ohm. It's going to be non-trivial to find an amp device with a low enough OI. So maybe it is a real problem! I would argue its a huge problem because not only is the OI spec sometimes hard to find before purchase but also because people just don't realize it needs to be addressed.

Would you say the best advice is get an amp that has as low an output impedance as possible for maximum flexibility driving headphones and IEMs?

There are still DAPs with 1ohm or more, and the actual impedance of an amp section is rarely exactly the same throughout the audible frequency range. Because of that, I simply run away from IEMs with very low impedance(the lowest I have is 10ohm somewhere, and it's in my oldest IEM from before I even knew to care about that). Same with highly sensitive ones. It's much easier for me to have an IEM with average sensi, so I won't notice background hiss even from a mediocre amp section, than chasing after the quietest, lowest impedance DAP in the market and hope that the result will be good enough.
TBH I've even pushed this further, by taking a liking in fairly flat impedance IEMs along with reasonable sensi, so I really don't have to bother with much of anything. I'm well past the years when I would run after the weirdest FOTM gear, and then spend half a year trying to find something to make it work well. I felt more like a masochist than an audiophile in those days. Emotionally intense, but not that pleasant.

 

[theaudiologist1]

Will $500 amps sound better than $100 ones even if both are very clean? I have a DAC/AMP combo that has a clean but a bit weak amp. I was thinking of getting a $100 amp but think it will hurt the sound so i should just save up for another DAC/AMP.

 

[xand]

Will $500 amps sound better than $100 ones even if both are very clean? I have a DAC/AMP combo that has a clean but a bit weak amp. I was thinking of getting a $100 amp but think it will hurt the sound so i should just save up for another DAC/AMP.

Except for extremes (if you buy a $10,000 amp it's probably better than any $100 amp), I wouldn't buy based on price.

Why don't you just demo it - if you can't see if you can find reviews of the $100 amp, or someone who has it...

 

[529128]

Will $500 amps sound better than $100 ones even if both are very clean? I have a DAC/AMP combo that has a clean but a bit weak amp. I was thinking of getting a $100 amp but think it will hurt the sound so i should just save up for another DAC/AMP.

No. When blindtesting volume matched most people won't be able to tell the difference unless there's either something wrong with the amp or there's an impedance mismatch. I recently upgraded my Schiit Heresy - a very capable 100$ amp that will satisfy even the most critical listener - to the 500$ Lake People G111. However I did the upgrade only because of the improved build quality and volumepot of the G111. Soundwise there's no perceivable difference. At least to my ears. That is not to say that a difference can't be measured. But human ears aren't computers or digital studio equipment and so the measurable difference does not equal a perceivable difference to the average human being. The eternal discussion about THD levels is beyond crazy. Just get a good clean amp like the Heresy, the Magni, the Atom, Topping L30 or something equivalent and you'll be all set for the foreseeable future.

 

[bigshot]

Choose amps for power and features, not sound quality. If your amp is underpowered for your purpose, it will sound bad, but that is user error, not a fault of the amp itself.

 

[redrol]

I absolutely disagree. Amps can sound drastically different regardless of spec ratings.

 

[bigshot]

See the Stereo Review link in my sig file

 

[theaudiologist1]

Except for extremes (if you buy a $10,000 amp it's probably better than any $100 amp), I wouldn't buy based on price.

Why don't you just demo it - if you can't see if you can find reviews of the $100 amp, or someone who has it...

The specific AMP I am referring to is the Fiio A5. I don't even know if it's powerful.

 

[bigshot]

You should look at the specs for the amp and headphones you are using and see if they are compatible.

 

[theaudiologist1]

You should look at the specs for the amp and headphones you are using and see if they are compatible.

By compatible do you mean warm amp + warm headphones, for example? or warm amp with cold headphones to balance it? My headphones are neutral and analytical with a tiny bit on the warm side (R70x).