Am I a heartless monster...

[Brooko]

One step at a time.  I still have to get my lovely wife to agree to buying the Enterprise first

 

[Argyris]

  Maybe you should bite the bullet, and simply get a bigger desk? 

 
I'll bet if he does he'll get a bigger soundstage. And, depending on the finish, he might get a warmer or brighter tone as well!

 

[Ancipital]

What does it matter regardless? Seems to me that you have sensitivity issues. I'll never understand why people try to tell someone else that they're wrong.

If someone believes that a $1000 cable sounds better than stock. Or a $1000 tak274b sounds better than stock. And others disagree. Why can't it be just that? Why does there have to be claims, or empirical data , to support what you hear? It's hilarious how much wasted time there is on this forum on who's right or who's wrong. IDGAF , what someone else buys, hears, thinks, on this forum.

Both sides of the argument should seriously get over themselves. Who gaf. It's whatever it takes to get where you wanna be. We're all in this together for one thing. THE LOVE OF MUSIC!

Seriously people! Press play and fugetaboudit.

 
You appear to have missed the point of both this sub-forum and thread. Well done.

 

[RRod]

  Its still down to my particular preference of musical presentation & if I could get an SS amp which could reproduce the same feeling and sound - I'd much prefer a smaller footprint.  But the Enterprise (for my tastes) is something very special.  I think anyone assuming all tube set-ups sound the same / similar is also making a big generalisation .....

 
I tend to view it like this:
In your ideal holodeck, do you want the Klingons to look *exactly* like Klingons, or do you want them with less-defined forehead ridges?

 

[Guidostrunk]

Apparently you missed the point I was making. Do you feel like a "Heartless monster" , because you don't see the point in,or need for glass? Who cares if you don't see the need for glass. What's the point of challenging someones reasoning, underlying logic, and or factual underpinnings regarding glass? What's the purpose of even debating about something you see no need for in the first place?
I see so many threads created over the dumbest stuff. This being one of them. Lol.
But I get it. It's all in the name of Sound Science.

You appear to have missed the point of both this sub-forum and thread. Well done.

 

[RRod]

Apparently you missed the point I was making. Do you feel like a "Heartless monster" , because you don't see the point in,or need for glass? Who cares if you don't see the need for glass. What's the point of challenging someones reasoning, underlying logic, and or factual underpinnings regarding glass? What's the purpose of even debating about something you see no need for in the first place?
I see so many threads created over the dumbest stuff. This being one of them. Lol.
But I get it. It's all in the name of Sound Science.

 
So you're asking "What's the point of internet forums"?

 

[StanD]

   
So you're asking "What's the point of internet forums"?

Spreading rumors and fighting over silly stuff.

 

[StanD]

  Agree Stan.  It often amazes me that some members will get into debates about THD at .001% and SNR 100 dB down vs 110 dB down - when in reality tit's pretty much inaudible anyway (at least it is for me).
 
I'd love to know what it is about the Enterprise which somehow is giving me those "magic moments".  All I can some up with is the second order harmonics as a possibility.  All I know is that I like it a lot more than the LD MKIV.  And it really surprised me because its really too darn big for my desk ......

I doubt that most if any people can detect a THD of 0.1% or a lot higher than that. Why do you like the Enterprise, you'll have to figure that one out. If the second harmonic was boosted that much it would seriously affect the sound where you might not like it. A few decades ago many cheap stereos created a noticeable increase in the second harmonic distortion of bass to give the listener the psychoacoustic impression of increased bass. It sounded dreadful, lacking the round smooth bottom that I look for.

 

[Argyris]

Isn't this more or less the principle behind those Bose systems (Acoustic Wave or whatever they're called) that claim to produce deep bass in a tiny form factor? I know there's some porting going on, but there's only so much you can get out of limited cone surface area on the drivers, and I seem to remember it had something to do with creating the impression of bass without actually producing the fundamental.
 
Speaking of which, this principle has been around for centuries in a mechanical form: smaller organs would often omit low bass stops and create the impression of deep fundamental tones by cleverly providing the upper harmonics of those notes using smaller pipes, or by making the ear "fill in" the missing fundamental from a combination of smaller pipes tuned less than an octave apart (i.e. mutation stops). This article goes into a lot of depth on the subject, if for some reason anybody has as nerdy a fascination with musical instruments as I do.

 

[old tech]

  I doubt that most if any people can detect a THD of 0.1% or a lot higher than that. Why do you like the Enterprise, you'll have to figure that one out. If the second harmonic was boosted that much it would seriously affect the sound where you might not like it. A few decades ago many cheap stereos created a noticeable increase in the second harmonic distortion of bass to give the listener the psychoacoustic impression of increased bass. It sounded dreadful, lacking the round smooth bottom that I look for.

That's what I look for too, but not necessarily in stereos 

 

[Brooko]

  I doubt that most if any people can detect a THD of 0.1% or a lot higher than that. Why do you like the Enterprise, you'll have to figure that one out. If the second harmonic was boosted that much it would seriously affect the sound where you might not like it. A few decades ago many cheap stereos created a noticeable increase in the second harmonic distortion of bass to give the listener the psychoacoustic impression of increased bass. It sounded dreadful, lacking the round smooth bottom that I look for.

 
It's not an increase in the bass though.  Its really hard to describe, but I'll see what I can do at measuring THD (just in case).  It still sounds perfectly linear - but there is something that just keeps giving me those wow moments.  Frustrating because I like to know why. 

 

[StanD]

   
It's not an increase in the bass though.  Its really hard to describe, but I'll see what I can do at measuring THD (just in case).  It still sounds perfectly linear - but there is something that just keeps giving me those wow moments.  Frustrating because I like to know why. 

Sounds like a case of Audio OCD coming on. Not to worry, you're not alone.

 

[Guidostrunk]

Spreading rumors and fighting over silly stuff.

 

[pctazhp]

  The thing is, a well designed tube amp can be as transparent and neutral as a good solid state amp.  The problem here though is the virtue equation, the tube amp will be more expensive, consume far more power and the sound degrades over the life of the tubes.  The virtue equation doesn't matter much though because those that typically get into tube amps do not want a neutral, transparent sound and most high end tube amps have intentional colourisation for that audience.
 
Likewise, a solid state amplifier can be made to sound the same as any tube amplifier.  However in this case, people who buy solid state amps are not after a tube sound.
 
I remember the Carver challenge that he could make a cheap solid state amp to sound exactly the same as any high end amp, tube or solid state.  The challenge was taken up by both Stereophile and The Audio Critic and both lost.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Carver

Bob Carver also designed, built and sold his own tube amp: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/0512/bob_carver_cherry_180_tube_monoblock_amplifier.htm
 
Everyone who has tube gear will have different reasons and motivations. If nothing else, owners of tube amps provide nice targets for those who love to look down their noses at others.
 
I like my OTL because it provides what I want - listening enjoyment. I think the main sonic feature of tube amps is they add even-order harmonic distortion that many find enjoyable. If there is a lot of even order distortion the amp will probably sound warm and syrupy. Less distortion will in my opinion sound closer to live performances than many solid state amps. I guess it is also possible tubes can alter the waveform and serve as hit or miss EQ. 
 
I think the only way to determine if tubes add anything of value is to try a few well respected tube amps and make one's own determination. Or instead, rely solely on specs and derive pleasure out of not being one of us stupid tube-loving slobs.

 

[castleofargh]

 

  I doubt that most if any people can detect a THD of 0.1% or a lot higher than that. Why do you like the Enterprise, you'll have to figure that one out. If the second harmonic was boosted that much it would seriously affect the sound where you might not like it. A few decades ago many cheap stereos created a noticeable increase in the second harmonic distortion of bass to give the listener the psychoacoustic impression of increased bass. It sounded dreadful, lacking the round smooth bottom that I look for.

 
It's not an increase in the bass though.  Its really hard to describe, but I'll see what I can do at measuring THD (just in case).  It still sounds perfectly linear - but there is something that just keeps giving me those wow moments.  Frustrating because I like to know why. 

frustrating it is. because there is technically nothing stopping manufacturers from giving us enough specs to figure it out outside of "I don't want you guys to know anything". or for someone to make a mimicking box. if the special sound doesn't come from the interaction of the amp and the load(instability or whatever FR change), then measuring the signal output should make it possible to simulate a good deal of the electrical signal with any very transparent amp + some DSP.  now would the people admit that it's the same sound if they don't have the glowing tube? it's an entirely different matter ^_^.