[upstateguy]

Everyone has an opinion.  Is there any truth to this one?  What do you guys think?  Rubbish or not?
 
http://audiogeorge.com/
 
http://ultrabitplatinum.com/30-years-of-digital-and-the-92-solution/
 
http://ultrabitplatinum.com/polarity-think-piece-a-speculation-regarding-perception-of-detail/
 
He starts off like this: 
 
"Whether live or reproduced music consists of a series of compressions and rarefaction of air that are the sound waves we hear.  Reproduced music is in absolute polarity when its compressions and rarefactions are in sync with the compressions and rarefactions of the original performance.  Much of music’s sound waves consists of compressions and rarefactions that are asymmetrical.  Scientific research has determined that below approximately 5 kHz most people hear compressions differently than rarefactions which means that for most listeners music that’s played inverted sounds different than when played non-inverted (in absolute polarity).  All tracks on approximately 92% of compact discs (CDs) play in inverted polarity on approximately 92% of compact disc players (CD players or servers that they’ve been ripped to) which means polarity mistakes aren’t random.  The converse of that is that approximately only 8% of CD players play all tracks on approximately 92% of CDs in non-inverted polarity (absolute polarity)......"
 
Then goes on to say:
 
"Playing music in inverted polarity rather than in absolute polarity (aka absolute phase) makes the sound brighter, harsher, more congested, less 3-dimensional sounding, and in general less musically and emotionally involving.  It also makes the evaluation of the fidelity and musicality of media and components more difficult, and could be one of the main reasons that analog media, which is mostly in polarity, is judged by many music-loving audiophiles to be musically superior to digital media**..."

 

[NA Blur]

The first paragraph is hard to understand and what "scientific research" are they talking about. It would be nice to see the actual research.
 
Secondly, phase certainly affects sound and is an old trick to widening soundstage, but what exactly are they saying here? Are they implying that 92% of all music on CD is out of phase? In which case this could easily be seen in mixing software and the fact is it isn't.
 
The second paragraph has me convinced that they are actually arguing the opposite of what they are claiming. The "added 3-D effect" is something that out of phase sounds can add. Sure it is almost impossible to have everything perfectly in phase because this means the mics and speakers all need to be in phase, but a decent engineer can set it up pretty easily. It is especially important when the signals are mixed together and thus incur phase attenuation.
 
I do admit that I do not fully understand the two paragraphs fully and can understand where they are coming from.
 
Here are some cool videos regarding phase.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N0ER4A73QE
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWB5PSoV2I0
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cj18EQQAm8

 

[castleofargh]

I have no idea, but I've seen IEMs and headphones being soldered with inverted polarity and no I can't reverse the plug on those^_^ (I only noticed because they give me an inverted impulse response TBH). so does that mean I have 92% chances to get the right sound with those IEMs?

 
but I guess we're ok if we have speakers, because as we all know, crossovers won't do anything to the phase response ... ooops.
 
even if it's true, it won't affect my sleep tonight. but I would certainly love to see where he got his intel and 92% number.

 

[sonitus mirus]

I'm not confident this is reliable science.  Looks like marketing to me.

 

http://ultrabitplatinum.com/ultrabit-platinum-plus/
 
The nice thing about your Mat and Sprays they will improve any system regardless of how much or how little you have spent. I mean really improve; you do not have to sit there and talked yourself into hearing the improvement, it that huge!

 

[spruce music]

It is more likely that 92% of music on CD has been mixed, mastered and processed to the point there is no correct absolute polarity. 
 
What about recordings done with a ribbon mike?  On one side you would be recorded with on polarity and the opposite side would record with the opposite polarity.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

For two times I went to headphone meets I've heard someone with an expensive new pair of IEMs / CIEMs, with the two earpieces wired out of phase with each other, and they weren't picking up on it. Only reason I picked up on it immediately was from my work with Viper4Android tuning super-crappy phones, and a ready-made relative phase inversion filter on my phone for comparison.

It seems to be super easy to get your CIEMs wired out of phase too, with little standardisation of which pin stands for what, on which earpiece, among different manufacturers ostensibly using the same connector.

Absolute phase, my ears have absolutely no idea.

 

[Pio2001]

Hi, here is my review about the quoted text :
 
Quote:

 
"Whether live or reproduced music consists of a series of compressions and rarefaction of air that are the sound waves we hear.  Reproduced music is in absolute polarity when its compressions and rarefactions are in sync with the compressions and rarefactions of the original performance.  
 

 
One must define "Compressions and rarefactions of the original performance". It might mean "Compressions and rarefactions" at the listening location, in the audience, but nearly no music is recorded from the audience. It might not change much, as I dont see many music instruments that could behave like acoustic dipoles (emitting one polarity in one direction and the oppoosite polarity in the other direction).
But the absolute polarity is not defined in pop music.
 
Quote:

 
Much of music’s sound waves consists of compressions and rarefactions that are asymmetrical.  Scientific research has determined that below approximately 5 kHz most people hear compressions differently than rarefactions

 
It is true that we can hear the difference using special test signals.
 
Quote:

 
which means that for most listeners music that’s played inverted sounds different than when played non-inverted (in absolute polarity).  
 

 
This is not the case. Besides test signals, music usually sound the same in both polarities.
 
Quote:
 
All tracks on approximately 92% of compact discs (CDs) play in inverted polarity
 
I am highly skeptical about this, although it may be true, after all.
 
 
Quote:
on approximately 92% of compact disc players (CD players or servers that they’ve been ripped to) which means polarity mistakes aren’t random. 

 
It sounds plausible. The polarity of the analog output of a CD player can easily be checked.
 
Quote:
 
"Playing music in inverted polarity rather than in absolute polarity (aka absolute phase) makes the sound brighter, harsher, more congested, less 3-dimensional sounding, and in general less musically and emotionally involving.  It also makes the evaluation of the fidelity and musicality of media and components more difficult,
 
These are completely subjective statements. They are not different of statements about the sound of cables.
 
Quote:
and could be one of the main reasons that analog media, which is mostly in polarity, is judged by many music-loving audiophiles to be musically superior to digital media**..."
 
 
Nonsense ! Analog media sound different because of their dynamics, noise, frequency response, wow and flutter, and distorsion. Not because of their absolute polarity.

 

[beemerphile]

My Yggdrasil DAC has a polarity button on it so I can instantly reverse the phase.  I haven't opened the case to see if it is wired to anything, but damn if I can tell a difference.

 

[upstateguy]

http://ultrabitplatinum.com/the-polarity-list/​

The Polarity List​

Updated March 10, 2015​

When a CD is made in normal (absolute) polarity (N), a non-inverting playback system will play the CD such that its compressions and rarefactions are in sync with the live performance.  When a CD plays inverted, the compressions and rarefactions of a non-inverting playback system will be exactly out of sync with the live performance.

N = Normal Polarity for approximately 92% of CD players, R = Reversed Polarity for approximately 92% of CD players, BP = Both Polarity CDs, W/S = Wall of Sound, S/W = Reversed polarity Wall of Sound, MT = Tracks with different relative polarity, i.e. some N and some R tracks, MP = Mixed polarity on one or more tracks. MN = Mostly Normal Polarity, MR = Mostly Inverted Polarity.  Usually reissue labels such as Mobile Fidelity don’t change the polarity of the original CDs so their polarities are dependent upon the polarity of the label of the original compact discs.  I only list the polarity of the CD layer on Hybrid SACDs, but I expect the SACD layer’s polarity is the same as its CD layer.  A “The” at the beginning of a label name will be omitted for the purpose of alphabetizing but shown in parenthesis after the label name, e.g. (The).  To save verbiage and for clarity, hereafter I’ll refer to approximately 92% of CD players or DACs that play all tracks on approximately 92% of CDs in inverted polarity as an N-player or N-DAC, and the approximately 8% of CD players or DACs that play all tracks on approximately 92% of CDs in polarity (absolute polarity) as an R-player or R-DAC, in order for the CD player polarity designations to agree with the CD polarity designations.  Because the actual polarity (as apposed to relative polarity) of analog components such as speakers, headphones, and electronic components with analog inputs can be determined their actual polarity will be designated as N for non-inverting and R for inverting, i.e. the same plus underscoring.

• 9winds – Harkins Golis Turetzky  R
• ACCURATE – Jimmy Weinstein Group – Nostalgia  R
• ACOUSTIC MUSIC RESOURCE Solid Air Records  R
• Acoustic Zebra* – Beatle Jazz – A Bite Of The Apple  R
• Adcom CD players – GCD-575  R
• Adcom GCD 600, and GCD 700  N
• AirCraft Records – Round Sounds Vol. II  R
• Aiwa Noise Canceling HP-CN6 headphones – noise canceling turned off or on  N
• Allegretto Sampler Series – Manuel Barreco (etc.) – Spotlight on Guitar  RAloi Records a 
• Division of Linn Products - Carol Kidd "All My Tomorrows"  R
• AMBRUS DISCS& TAPES – Amadus – It’s Just Beginning  R
• American Recordings  R
• Amherst Records, Inc. - Live Jazz- Nancy Kelly  N
• Analogue Productions  R
• Analogue Productions – FI The Magazine of Music & Sound  R
• Antiles  R
• Archiv Produktion  R
• Ariola – Greenhouse Effect  Plan B  R
• ASTREE AUVIDIS  R
• ATCO RECORDS – Bobby Darin – This is Darin  R
• ATLANTIC JAZZ – Cyrus Chestnut – The Dark Before the Dawn – R
• AudioQuest – Robert Lucas – Layaway  R
• Audiostas ummy-Head-Recording (binaural)  R
• BEAST RETRO  Concert Friday the 13^th Cook County Jail  R
• Behringer A500 amplifier single ended RCA input  R  it's balanced XLR input is non-inverting  N
• Big Cat Records – Mary Coughlan – After the Fall  R
• BIS  R
• BLACK LION – Cliff Jackson – Carolina Shout  R
• Blix Street Records  R
• Blue Note  N
• BLUE NOTE Music from EMI* – Patricia Barber – Live A Forthight in France  R
• BRC-JAM – Todd Coolman Trio – Tomorrows  R
• BROWNSTONE RECORDINGS – HARRY SKOLER – Conversations  In The Languate Of Jazz  R
• Burmester – Art for the Ear – Volume II & III  R
• Café RECORDS –Moro – Pieces of And A collection of Romantic Music for Cuitar  R
• CAMELEON/BEACHWOOD RECORDS – Laurence Juber – Solo Flight R
• Capri Records Ltd, NU – Drifting Timelessly  R
• Cascavelle – Duo De Harpes  R
• CBS  Records (Associated) Hubert Laws: The Rite of Spring  – R
• Cedille Records  R
• CEMA SPECIAL PRODUCTS – 10 BEST SERIES – Peggy Lee – Fever & Other Hits  R
• Chesky  R
• Clarity Recordings  R
• Collectables – Grassella Oliphant Quartette – The Grass Roots  R
• Columbia – Miles Davis – Kind of Blue  R
• COLUMBIA/DMZ/LEGACY – T Bone Burnett –Twenty Twenty The Essential T Bone Burnett (2 discs)  R
• Columiba  BP
• Concord Jazz  BP
• Concord Jazz Collectable Series  BP
• Curb RCA  R
• Delos  R
• Dennesen Phase Restoration Device PDR  R
• DENON – tact JAZZ SERIES – Toshiko Aniyoshi Quintet – Toshiko at Top of the Gate  N
• DENON PCM DIGITAL RECORDING – Beethoven symphony No. 2 in D Major, Op 36  R
• Departure  R
• Deutsche Gramophone  R
• DISCOVERY – Hal Schaefer – Solo Duo Trio  R
• Dmp Digital Music Productions, Inc.
• Dorian  R
• EAST WIND JASRAC – The L.A. Four – Going Home – R
• ECM – Ralph Towner – Works  R
• ECM NEW SERIES –Gyorgy Kurtag – Jatekok  R
• ECM Records GmbH  R
• Elektra - Nanci Griffith  N
• EMI Angel DIGITAL – Arron Copland  R
• EMI Classics  R
• Enja – Tete Montoliu – Songs for Love  R
• Epic –Poco- The Very Best of Poco  R
• Everest  R
• Excelsior JAZZ GOLD – Jazz Is  R
• Fantasy ORIGINAL Jazz CLASSICS – The Tony Bennett Bill Evans Album  R
• Favored Nations ACOUSTIC – Tommy Emmanuel  R
• FIM K2 HD Mastering 100 KHz and 24-Bit Resolution! R
• Geffen  N
• Geffen -  Eagels – Hell Freezes Over  N
• Gema – Bowers & Willkins Audiophile Recordings For The Road  R
• GLOBAL PACIFIC RECORDS – David Friesen – Glossarium  A & M Records  R
• Gmp AMERICAN MUSIC HALL (THE) – The Carmen McRae-Betty Carter Duets  R
• GRAMAVISION – R
• Grove
• Grp DIGITAL MASTER – PASTI AUSTIN – LIVE  R
• GSPJAZ Recordings  R
• Hallmark Music – Acoustic Evening  R
• HARMONIA MUNDI – 30^TH ANNIVERSAIRE  R
• HI FI NEWS & RECORD REVIEW – HFB/NR TEST DISC II  R
• IMP CLASSICS – Marcelo Kayath -Guitar Classics from Spain  R
• Impulse!  N
• Inak MUSIC COMPANY – Dice of Dixieland Sideways  R
• INNERTUBE – The Surf Kings –Coming Up for Air  R
• INTUITION Records, Inc.  R
• JAZZ  HERITAGE            – CARMEN MCRAE: CARMEN SINGS MONK  R
• Jazz Focus  N
• Justice Records Strike a Deep Chord Blue Gutars For the Homeless  N tracks 2-9, 1  R
• Justice Records Strike a Deep Chord Blue Guitars For the Homeless N tracks 2-9, 1  N
• Justice Records 93 and 94 above have the opposite polarities but have the same matrix numbers and catalog numbers.  This is a first that I'm trying to figure out.
• JVC 20bit K2 SUPERCODING  Ernie Watts – The Long Road Home  R
• JVCJ-CD  R
• JVCxrcd  BP
• KnitClassics – KnitClassics Sampler  R
• KOCH SCHWANN – Bohmen & Mahren  R
• LASERLIGHT DIGITAL  R
• LIMELIGHT (JASRAC) – The Oscar Peterson Trio – Canadian Suite  R
• LINN RECORDS IN ASSOCIATION WITH THE hit label – Sstephane Grappelli –Martin Taylor – Reunion  R
• London  N
• M*A  R
• M*A Recordings – Bruce Stark, piano – Dream song  R
• MAD-KAT Records – Kitty Margolis – Live at The Jazz Workshop  R
• Mapleshade  N
• Mark Levinson – Red Rose Music-– Volume one  R
• Maxell Studio Series headphones  R
• MCA GRP – Rob Wasserman (etc.) – Trios  R
• MCA Zebra* – David Grisman Acousticity  R
• Mercury  Living Presence  R
• Mercury  R
• MHS Musical Herritage Society  N
• Milestone –The Kenny Drew, Jr. Trio – Winter Flower  R
• MOBILE FIDELITY MFSL (Polydor original  R) – Eric Clapton Slowhand  R
• MOBILE FIDELITY SOUND LAB ORIGINAL MASTER RECORDING ULTRA DISC UHR GAIN 2 –(hybrid SACD) Patricia Baber – Café Blue  R
• MOBILE FIDELITY SOUND LAB ULTRA DISC II (original Verve – R) – Getz/Gilberto  R
• MOBILE FIDELITY ULTRA DISC II SAMPLER – (multiple original CDs)  MP
• Mode 26 (Records)  R
• MOTOWN – Diana Ross – Lady Sings the Blues  R
• MSFL Original Master Recording – Jim Hall – Concierto  R
• Music from BMI*- BLUE NOTE – Patricia Barber – Live a Fortnight in France  R
• MuSick – Evan foster – Instrumentals  R
• N Coded Music  N
• Naim – Charlie Haden & John Taylor  R
• Nakamichi Bridiging Adaptor BA-100  N
• Narada  R
• Narada Collection Series  R
• Nature Recordings  R
• NAXOS  R
• NEC CD-730, CD-830D CD players  N
• NEW WORLD RECORDS  R
• Nimbus Records  English Stsring Orchestra – Mendelssohn Complete String symphonies  R
• Nonesuch  R
• Nonesuch – Mandy Patnkin – Oscar & Steve  R
• NOVUS (BMG RCA) – Marcus Roberts – The Truth s Spoken Here   R
• Oppo BDP-95 CD, DVD, SACD, DVD-A, Blu-ray player  R
• Opus 3  R
• Opus 3 – Depth of Image Test Record 1  R
• Pablo  N
• Philips  R
• Philips digital Classics – Pepe romero – Noches de Espana  R
• PIERRE VERANY – Mamba Percussions  R
• POINT GEMA – Pasha – Christmas Music -  Christmas Carols  R
• Polydor – Dick Annegarn  R\
• Premonition Records – Patricia Barber – Café Blue (CD)  R
• Private Music- Leo Kottke – Regards From Chuck Pink  R
• Proprius  R
• Proprius – Jazz at the Pawnshop   R
• Proprius – Contate Domino  R
• PS Audio – DAC Link III  R
• PS Audio – PerfectWave DAC  N
• R ACCORD  Duke Ellington –  PLUS TIME 2 Great Concerts  R
• RCA RED SEAL – Charles Munch BSO – Debussy – La Mer  R
• RCAVictor  R
• RCAVictor, The Chieftains – Tears of Stone  R
• RealTime Records – Real Hot Jazz  R
• Rearward/Schema  N
• Red House Records  R
• Reference Records  R
• Reprise  N
• Reprise – Joni Mitchell – Blue  N
• Rhino  R
• River North Records  N
• Rounder  R
• SANSTONE MUSIC – MEL TORME – THE LONDON SESSIONS  R
• Sheffield Labs  R
• SHILOH RECORDS – Greg Harris – Acoustic II  R
• SIRE – Talking Heads – Stop Making Sense  R
• Slow Baby Records – Barbara Higbie – I susrrender  R
• Solid Air  R
• Solid Air Records – Grove Masters  R
• Sony  R
• Sony -  CD player CD CDP-990  R
• Sony – Miles Davis – Kind of Blue  R
• Sony PlayStation 1 composite audio output  N
• Sony PlayStation 1 RCA Jacks  R
• SPECIAL MUSIC COMPANY (THE) – Ragtime Piano Favorites  R
• SteepleChase  R
• Stereophile  R
• STUNT RECORDS –Marie Bergman – Fruit  R
• Telarc  N
• Telarc Digital  N
• Telarc Jazz  N           
• Telard jazz – Sam Pilafian & Frank vignola – Travlin Light  N
• THE Jazz Alliance – The L.A. Jazz Choir – From All Sides  R
• The World Ryko 360 AU 20 – Mickey Hart – Planet Drum  R
• The World Ryko 360 AU 20 (gold)  R
• Three Blind Mice  N
• Tomorrow International – Nathan Davis – I’m A Fool to Want You  R
• Transatlantic Records Ltd. – Pentangle Swee Child – This Compilation  R
• Triloka Records Living Proof Series – Richie Beirach – George Coleman – Convergence  N
• UAE MCPS – Memphis Slim  R
• UNIVERSAL MUSIC Special Markets – STARBUCKS COFFEE – Repertoire  R
• Usher  R
• Vanguard  R
• VANGUARD – Pete Seeger – Live At Newport  R
• Varse Sarabande  R
• Verve  R and mostly  N
• Verve Digital – Ahirley Horn – You Won’t Forget Me  R
• VOX ALLEGRETTO –The All Star Percussion Ensemble  R
• VSOP CONNOISSEUR COLLECTION – Hugh Masekela – Stimela  R
• WARNER BROS. – Bela Fleck & The Flecktones – Flight of The Cosmic Hippo  R
• Warner Bros. – Bela fleck & The Flecktones – Live Art (2 discs)  R
• WARNER BROS. Records, Inc (Phonogram Ltd.) – Dire Straits – Love Over Gold  R
• Water Lily Acoustics – Strunz & Farah – Misterio  R
• WCJ Warner Classic Jazz –The Puccini Experience  R
• WIENERWORLD RECORDS – The Music of Red Shoe Diaries  R
• Wilson Audio (Wilson Audiophile Definitive Recording) – James Welch Organist – Concert And Recital  R
• WIN What’s in a Name Recodings – Louis Scherr etc. – Warm Valley  R
• Windham Hill  R
• Windham Hill Collection (A)  R
• Zebra Acoustic* - Beatle Jazz – A Bite Of The Apple  R
• Zebra MCA* – David Grisman Acousticity  R

Disclaimer:  The ideas expressed on this website are the opinions of the author and therefore their value and truth should be determined by the readers for themselves.

 

[castleofargh]

anyway, once on the computer it's not too hard to try both polarities and see for ourselves how (ir)relevant it is. audacity can do it, and then hop on to abx. or just some vst in foobar for the curious guys, I just found that I had this one taking e-dust in my foobar dll graveyard: http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2014/09/20/sleepy-time-dsp/  the very last link called "polarity" on the same line as "dualpanner".

 

[spruce music]

Upstateguy thanks for that post. From that page you linked:
 
 So far at least, the only way to discern polarity of music is by listening, but it’s really true that little bit of practice with media of known polarity makes perfect.
 
 
That makes that page pretty laughable.  Pitiful that someone went to all that trouble with so many misconceptions and half truths.  Not that he was lying, he believes it, but you can't assume one disc from a music company says anything about another.  They sell music recorded and mastered from many locations by many people.
 
If you wish to know your total system polarity or that of a CD player there is an easy real way to tell.  Audacity has a plug in which is called a Diode processor.  It will take a sine wave and do what a diode would do.  Set it to maybe 50% which is enough to get plenty of asymmetry in the waveform.  Make a tone at 440 hz or something similar.  Play it at moderate volume.  Put a multimeter on your speaker leads.  Red to red, and black to black.  Set it to read DC, yes DC.  If you read a slowly varying positive voltage polarity is right.  If you read a slowly varying negative voltage your polarity is flipped. 
 
As to determining the polarity of some music it is pretty tough to do.  With music made from multi-tracking and processing it really is pointless.  So is the list of discs on that page.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Hey Pio2001

Long time no see--this is the first I knew of you being present at all on head-fi!

 

[icebear]

Not sure if out of phase and reverse polarity means the same ... anyway I have some audio test CD, I think it on Chesky.
There are examples of in-phase and out-of phase signals and the out of phase examples have obviously poor sound stage, almost impossible to pinpoint the sound sources.
This is a good test to check your system is properly set up.
 
I have Mapleshade (N) CD's and also Chesky(R) CD's and both sound exceptional with great reproduction of the instruments and voices in the respective acoustic space. Plenty of ambient information has been captured by both labels.
 
When it comes to correct absolute polarity, I guess someone has discovered a problem that in real world doesn't exist

.
Have fun bringing the rest of the world on board to rectify this serious issue.

 

[NA Blur]

I worry that the opposite occurs not only for headphones but in amp designs as well. When a piece of gear advertises a huge soundstage I definitely think there are some phase issues.

 

[Pio2001]

  From that page you linked:
 
 So far at least, the only way to discern polarity of music is by listening, but it’s really true that little bit of practice with media of known polarity makes perfect.
 

 
Aaaaah ! That explains everything. They think that the absolute polarity of a given CD is this or that because it sounds wider or narrower to their ears when they reverse it !
 
They have listened to hundreds of CD, and just said "this one sounds in phase, that one sounds out of phase."
 
The absolute polarity that they give is just the same thing as the direction of the fuses or the direction of the interconnect when an arrow is printed on them : just the feeling of a given listener at a given time, about something that produced actually no change at all.
 
Forget about all this.
 

Hey @Pio2001

 
Hi Joe,
I saw some light, so I came in 

 

  I worry that the opposite occurs not only for headphones but in amp designs as well. When a piece of gear advertises a huge soundstage I definitely think there are some phase issues.

 
The stereo problems with absolute phase occur when you reverse one channel only. The result is absolutely awful when you stand at equal distance of both speakers. If you stand closer to one speaker, there is a clearly audible effect on the bass level, but it is not obvious that one of them is out of phase.
 
But here, the discussion is about inverting the phase of both channels at the same time. It is true that the difference can be audible with strongly asymetric signals, but for music, it doesn't matter.