[The_Duke_Of_Eli]

Headphones can't hold a stick up to truly high-end end speaker system. But then again, those systems can run over 100,000$. Headphones are portable systems that are good enough, given their lower cost.

 

[GlorytheWiz825]

If I had the room and the capital, I would move onto speakers. Unfortunately being a full time student living with others, I cannot do that.

 

[Graphicism]

For me it's costs, what cost $300 in headphones would cost $3,000 in speakers.

Thats a pretty dumb statement from your billionaire buddy.

 

[vcoheda]

well. he doesn't like headphones. who cares.

 

[milkpowder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphicism /img/forum/go_quote.gif For me it's costs, what cost $300 in headphones would cost $3,000 in speakers. Thats a pretty dumb statement from your billionaire buddy.

And even $300 headphones will out-perform $3000 speakers in certain respects. My HE60 amped by a modest 006t reproduces more realistic, accurate timbre than the handful of $10k-30k speakers I've heard. Of course, speakers are so room-dependent simply moving them a foot sideways can completely change the frequency response.

This statement is probably true though (I've only heard a couple $100k+ systems and neither have a listened to a truly high-end headphones system so I can't confirm this):
Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Duke_Of_Eli /img/forum/go_quote.gif Headphones can't hold a stick up to truly high-end end speaker system. But then again, those systems can run over 100,000$. Headphones are portable systems that are good enough, given their lower cost.

but it doesn't mean that "all headphones suck".

 

[zeluiz22]

If you mean it when you say you want high-fidelity, then you have to agree with this criticism of headphones.

The virtues of headphones are detail and intimacy (as well as privacy), but not hi-fi. No soundstage means no hi-fi. Even headphones touted to have the best soundstage (K701) have none, just a vague impression that the instruments haven't been metaphysically fused together.

It is impossible to get the imaging and staging on headphones required to approximate (and the best room and speakers can only approximate) the sense of being in a theater.

 

[Zorander]

I started on headphones mainly because I need the isolation and because I don't have a big enough room to fully realize my speaker system. But yeah, assuming I have my own room and it is big enough to properly set the speakers, I would go for speakers.

 

[braillediver]

If he was being honest when he said that then he really means all forms of musical reproduction sux except for live music. Otherwise why pick on headphones.

I was wondering- The average system here on Head-Fi is probably in the top 10%-20% when compared to what the vast majority of consumers have?


Mitch

 

[milkpowder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeluiz22 /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you mean it when you say you want high-fidelity, then you have to agree with this criticism of headphones. The virtues of headphones are detail and intimacy (as well as privacy), but not hi-fi. No soundstage means no hi-fi. Even headphones touted to have the best soundstage (K701) have none, just a vague impression that the instruments haven't been metaphysically fused together. It is impossible to get the imaging and staging on headphones required to approximate (and the best room and speakers can only approximate) the sense of being in a theater.

I don't think that soundstage is necessary for hi fidelity. There is no doubt that headphones have limited soundstage, but that doesn't stop them from being high fidelity in my book. My cheapo Logitech Z 2300 computer speakers have a deeper soundstage than any AKG or Senn headphone, but that doesn't mean they're hifi quality, does it? Soundstage is only one of the many criteria by which I judge how good a sound reproduction is.

 

[happyhifibasten]

Headphones and speakers are completely different experience to me. I will listen to speakers whenever it does not bother other people, because I always think using headphones hurt ears more or less. But the convenience, intimacy, and enjoyment, and happiness with an good pair of headphones is not replacable.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluetick /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is not an attempt to troll, these were the words of a close friend. He has been in the recording industry for many years and he definately has golden ears. I trust his opinion on many things audio and he has helped me progress to where I am today. These were his exact comments after listening to my new Grado 1K's driven by a wonderful 12sn7 based amp on a Sota Sapphire with a Benz 'stage. I think it sounds like heaven, but he thinks all headphones screw up the music in an attempt to replicate a larger acoustic space. He goes on to say that headphones are a "must have" in the industry, but if he had his choice, he'd never strap on a pair let alone pay good money for them. Needless to say, it (was the only time he) offended me. It made me wonder....do you have headphones because you have to have them (because of the nature of your living environment/lifestyle) or do you prefer them to speakers?

Maybe he has never heard a headphone that suited his personal sound quality priorities. I have to tell you, personally, I find the GS1000 a very flawed headphone given my preferances and sensitivities ( I cant stand the 1000's treble spike

). If he listened to another high end headphone on your system, say a senn 580/ 600, that would possibly better suite his preferances, he may have a completely different take.

 

[MusicFirst]

If money and space are not substantial hindrances, I will always choose speakers over headphones. As a compromise, quality headphones are still much more "hi-fi" than merely decent speakers.

 

[zeluiz22]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't think that soundstage is necessary for hi fidelity. There is no doubt that headphones have limited soundstage, but that doesn't stop them from being high fidelity in my book. My cheapo Logitech Z 2300 computer speakers have a deeper soundstage than any AKG or Senn headphone, but that doesn't mean they're hifi quality, does it? Soundstage is only one of the many criteria by which I judge how good a sound reproduction is.

Well, you can have soundstage without hifi, as your Logitechs prove, but you can't have hifi without soundstage. Doesnt high fidelity mean increased similarity to live sound? And doesn't live sound always have width, depth and height?

 

[Malakei]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakeride74 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Good headphones can not compete with good speakers but on the same token headphones give an intimate experience with the music that speakers can not achieve. I think my speaker rig is decent, I have top of the line Aperion set up with a HSU VTF-3 MK3 sub driven by a Denon AVR-3801. No headphone rig I have ever heard can compete with how big and full everything sounds through this. Listening to headphones I can go as loud as I want, it costs far less to adjust my rig to my tastes and the intimate experience is again unique to headphone listening. When you think about a portable rig with customs, decent source, good cable and a nice amp that can fit in a pocket, cost under $2k and sounds so far beyond many modest speaker systems, that is one hell of a strong point!

And your hardly even started into hi fi, wait till you start hearin the big boys. Cans, god love em, get trampled by their hi fi speaker countrerparts. I think there is something to be said about headphones reproducing hi fidelity but i agree with the original connotation in that alot of the cans mess with the sound attempting to reproduce a larger soundstage "emulating" speakers or real live music. I think the statement many people claim in their cans being compared constantly with speakers says it in itself. Its simply understood in most cases speakers > headphones. Its only when you start spending ridiculous money that you start reaching the realm of speaker like sound. However if you consider how much the equivalent hi end speaker setup costs, you can see why some people go with cans

 

[honestguvnor]

Yes headphones suck. The sound in your head is nothing like real life and significantly worse than listening to stereo on loudspeakers.

Having said that, binaural over headphones has the potential to be far more realistic than stereo over loudspeakers (apart from the bass which would still need something like a speaker) if people were interested which they are not.

It is a bloody awful world when you are forced to use headphones to listen to music in the evenings because of your accommodation.