All DAC's sound the same.

[mibutenma]

DVD players have pretty terrible remotes.
I have more than one.
The Toshiba sometimes needs to be pressed twice to three times.Although plenty of times once.
The JVC is responsive actually even has a open button still which almost every new DVD player has removed
The Sony is horrible the remote is very unresponsive sometimes the batteries have to be removed and put back in and then the remote works again.
The Panasonic responsive no open button though. And no subtitles or audio button what? Really?
The Pioneer I had (broken/gone) it was responsive and had all the buttons it should.
 
Maybe the Marantz CD5004 really doesn't have anything special inside but I enjoy its sound more.
 
Even good reviews from some average joes like this one off Crutchfield. So I'm not the only person who thinks it sounds good and better.
 
OK, I'm cheap. But I think I have a decent ear for quality music. I have been listening to CDs through DVD and Blu-ray players (Toshiba 3109 and Sony BDP-350) for the last 15 years. But I got inspired when I dusted off the old Toshiba and played some of my CDs through it again. Hmmm. It sounds better than the Sony BDP. The player DOES make a difference! 

I tried a few 1990s vintange CD players (JVC and Philips) and did some research. I found that I could tell the difference in the 'sound stage' for my favorite tracks on some players. And the research led me here to the Marantz. 

Honestly, after I ordered the CD5004, I had a bit of buyers remorse. How could it be worth $350? I paid less for my amp (Yamaha RX-V365) and used speakers (JBL P20s). But I figured my wife wanted to get me a nice birthday present. 

So I unboxed the Marantz, and hooked it up to the analog in jacks of my amp and set it to 'Direct' (no digital processing). I sat my wife down and put Mary Black (No Frontiers) on. We 'felt' the difference. I have never heard the dynamics and presence of 'I Dream of Columbus' like this before. Then we tried Norah Jones. Same jaw-dropping experience. 

Of course other 'lesser' CDs are not as noticeable of a difference, but I'm sold. I'm not sending it back. I just need to upgrade my amp and speakers now. This could get expensive! 

Thanks Marantz for giving me back the joy of music!
 
 

 

[mibutenma]

Quote:

By the way, an iPod costs a lot more than $15 to make and yes, it does sound as good as a CD player. I did a direct A/B line level matched comparison of a midrange Sony CD player and an iPod playing an AIFF file through line out. No difference.

 

I wouldn't put much faith in Sony audio products everyone one of their audio products I've heard I thought was junk mp3 player was decent though.
Then again I would never buy a Ipod either.
 
 

 

[bigshot]

I later compared the Sony to a highly regarded Philips SACD player and there was no difference- even comparing CD to SACD. Compared the Philips to a nice Yamaha CD player. Same result.

 

[mibutenma]

Well good for you.
 
I'm happy with my stuff. And there was a difference with the Marantz CD 5004 to me.
I'm not going to be OCD like some people constantly A/Bing things, getting new equipment etc...
Just going to enjoy my new stuff and enjoy the music.
 
 
 
 
 

 

[DigitalFreak]

Would everyone on here just please calm down and relax.
 
First of all I don't believe for a second a Nexus handset will drive a 300 ohm headphone. If anyone actually believes that they're seriously diluting themselves and such claims can an be very easily disproven in under a second by just walking into any audio store and plugging in your phone into any 300 ohm can you see. Why someone would post such obvious lies and go out of their way to actually create skewed charts is beyond me. There is NO HANDSET on the market that can even come remotely close to driving a 300 ohm headphone. Some dedicated mobile amps can't even properly drive a 300 ohm can never mind a Nexus S. As far as I'm concerned the discussion on said topic is mute and I can only think the poster who made that claim was trying to have a few laughs at everyone's reaction to such a claim. Good one I hope you enjoyed having your laughs at everyone else's expense.
 
Secondly most people on here have to start being a tad more cynical and start understanding that by not jumping on the flavor of the month bandwagon they will eventually find the great audio sound they all crave. A Fiio may have it's place in the grand scheme of things BUT a Fiio which is an integrated DAC/amp bottom dweller mobile gear will not outperform a 500 dollar DAC with a 500 dollar amp. Doesn't matter what people say it doesn't have the grunt nor the circuitry behind it to make a 600 ohm Beyer AKG, Senn etc sing and never will. People can rave about it all they want common sense dictates that a cheap piece of entry level electronics will not outperform a better engineered component AND NEVER WILL.
 
Thirdly:Just because some audio gear cost's 5000 bones doesn't necessarily mean it's a better piece of gear then a 1200 dollar piece of gear. As stated in a past post companies such as Burson, Little Dot, Audio GD, Schiit and many more have more then proven that for under 1500 dollars total, and if you really shop around even less, you can have a rig which will give you GREAT SOUND and not be far behind some rigs that cost 5 6 or 7 thousand dollars. Just because you only have a 500 dollar DAC coupled with a 350 dollar amp doesn't necessarily mean you have a garbage system. If the rig puts out great sound and the owner likes what he/she hears then he/she has a great system that many other people would envy and he/she has been able to accomplish creating a great rig while keeping his/her hard earned money in the bank. Great move on their behalf.
 
Fourthly: There are certain people who come here who treat this hobby in the truest sense of the word and love to mix and match their rig with high end high priced gear. They also have the funds where they can drop 10 000 bones on a rig and then run out and drop another 4000 bones on a Stax headphone without even batting an eye. Would me or many others who come here ever drop coin like that on a headphone rig that pricey? The answer is a huge obvious NO because first most of us don't have the funds to drop money down like that and secondly the return, if any, isn't worth the gains in audio. That being said these people who are lucky enough to be able to afford to indulge themselves with high end gear have every right to without any interference from us. Like us they work for their money and have earned their money honestly so they are entitled to do anything they so choose with it. Considering what someone else chooses to do with his/her money is solely their business I really don't understand why some people get bent out of shape when they check a members profile and see a list of 10 DAC's and 20 amps. If that person chooses to invest his fun money in that way it's his/her business so why worry about it it's their money not anyone else's.
 
Lastly: Yes I agree there are some people, and I point out I'm using the word SOME, who come on here and arrogantly let comments out that gear number 1 only costs so much therefore it can't outperform gear number 2 because it costs X amount of money more. My view is why get worked up about it? If you really like your rig why should you care that so and so in the UK or so and so in France thinks your rig is cheap? You don't even know this person so why care what a total stranger thinks? This is a huge site with thousands upon thousands of threads if such a member really bothers you that much there's many many places on this site you can go and not have to put up with someone acting silly. If said person is harassing you wherever you go then send a PM to one of the MOD's and the problem will soon be solved.
 
Final and last comment on this thread from me
 
The glux of what I'm trying to say is if you keep things in perspective life on here is pretty cool. If you run around worrying about what other people think and worrying your gear isn't to snuff because the other guy paid more then you should seriously think about quitting the hobby because you're only going to drive yourself and others around you crazy. The same goes for people who create threads berating people saying they pay to much for their gear and throwing the insulting word "ignorant" around when someone disagrees with their statement. This is a hobby that's meant to be fun and meant to make the most out of our music not a venue to strut one's wares and go hey look at what I have this is far better then the other guy. This is also a place we all come to research information and it's hard enough to sift through all the fan boy comments without having to also sift through false comments like a Nexus X can easily drive a 300 ohm headphone. If the OP and his friends have been able to attain audio nirvana using the lowest priced gear they can find well then all I have to say is congratulations more power to all of you keep on rocking the house with your gear and I hope you all enjoy your little slice of nirvana for years to come. Some of us haven't though and we're here to research mix and match and experiment to hopefully get what we want. Those of us who are still searching I'm sure will eventually find the sound we want and then we will also be happy. If we attain our nirvana through slightly more costly components because it sounds better to our ears what possible concern should it be to the thread's OP and his friends? It's not as if the extra money me and others on here choose to spend is coming from anyone else's pocket except our's so why worry about it? Stop and give it some thought gentlemen in the end it's your time and frustration you save by understanding that not all people will ever see eye to eye with you and some subjects aren't worth getting worked up about.
 
Bless \m/

 

[bigshot]

I can say it all shorter.... All DACs sound the same.

 

[Currawong]

All forum arguments sound the same.

 

[sterling1]

What's truly different in DAC's is their marketing and advertising.

 

[astroid]

DACS measure differently, some have jitter at 2000psec some at 10psec, some have roll off starting at 12khz some are flat up to 22khz. Some sound cold and sterile , some sound tubey (is that a word?).
Some have images at 28khz , some at 96khz.
Some are NOS and some are not.
Some use Op Amps , some use Mosfet. Some use tubes in the output stage.
 
My point is that there are so many variables in DAC design that to say they all sound the same is , well .... bollocks.
 
 
 

 

[Mochan]

All of that is mostly hogwash and marketing. 
 
DACs mostly sound the same. the differences between DACs are miniscule and far less appreciable than a change in amp or headphones. Only the truly Golden Eared can possibly appreciate the difference. But on HeadFi it seems every other person has Golden Ears and can hear 30khz bleeps and 5hz rumbles and can tell from a listen if a cable is made of silver, gold or copper or what ratio mixture of each metal.

 

[astroid]

Some DACs will sound the same , some wont , whats the big deal?
 
chain is like this :
 
SOURCE - CABLE - DAC - ANALOGUE OUTPUT STAGE -  CABLE - AMP - CABLE -  SPEAKERS
 
All of the above can effect the sound, some more than others.
 
If we go with what is being suggested in this thread then , all CD players sound the same, all MP3 players sound the same , all amps sound the same etc etc etc.
 
They dont, i wont argue about it , i know i am right , they dont sound the same. I am sure i could find some that do but you cant say they ALL sound the same.
 
Cables , well i have never heard a difference but that doesnt mean there is never one.

 

[Koolpep]

Wow!
 
That is exactly my observation so far. I got the Fiio D3 with a Wolfson 8805 chip for 30 USD and was surprised that there is no difference to the 450 USD NuForce icon HDP when used purely as DAC. Even though I have the feeling there is a slightly better sound from the icon (somehow more "complete") but that could be the pre-amping that is applied, I don;t know. Next I test the Fiio E7 with L7 attached as DAC and see if that results in the same output as well.... funky donkey
 
The difference is definitively very small at least for me....

 

[bisayaboi]

Quote:

Would everyone on here just please calm down and relax.
 
First of all I don't believe for a second a Nexus handset will drive a 300 ohm headphone. If anyone actually believes that they're seriously diluting themselves and such claims can an be very easily disproven in under a second by just walking into any audio store and plugging in your phone into any 300 ohm can you see. Why someone would post such obvious lies and go out of their way to actually create skewed charts is beyond me. There is NO HANDSET on the market that can even come remotely close to driving a 300 ohm headphone. Some dedicated mobile amps can't even properly drive a 300 ohm can never mind a Nexus S. As far as I'm concerned the discussion on said topic is mute and I can only think the poster who made that claim was trying to have a few laughs at everyone's reaction to such a claim. Good one I hope you enjoyed having your laughs at everyone else's expense.
 
Secondly most people on here have to start being a tad more cynical and start understanding that by not jumping on the flavor of the month bandwagon they will eventually find the great audio sound they all crave. A Fiio may have it's place in the grand scheme of things BUT a Fiio which is an integrated DAC/amp bottom dweller mobile gear will not outperform a 500 dollar DAC with a 500 dollar amp. Doesn't matter what people say it doesn't have the grunt nor the circuitry behind it to make a 600 ohm Beyer AKG, Senn etc sing and never will. People can rave about it all they want common sense dictates that a cheap piece of entry level electronics will not outperform a better engineered component AND NEVER WILL.
 
Thirdly:Just because some audio gear cost's 5000 bones doesn't necessarily mean it's a better piece of gear then a 1200 dollar piece of gear. As stated in a past post companies such as Burson, Little Dot, Audio GD, Schiit and many more have more then proven that for under 1500 dollars total, and if you really shop around even less, you can have a rig which will give you GREAT SOUND and not be far behind some rigs that cost 5 6 or 7 thousand dollars. Just because you only have a 500 dollar DAC coupled with a 350 dollar amp doesn't necessarily mean you have a garbage system. If the rig puts out great sound and the owner likes what he/she hears then he/she has a great system that many other people would envy and he/she has been able to accomplish creating a great rig while keeping his/her hard earned money in the bank. Great move on their behalf.
 
Fourthly: There are certain people who come here who treat this hobby in the truest sense of the word and love to mix and match their rig with high end high priced gear. They also have the funds where they can drop 10 000 bones on a rig and then run out and drop another 4000 bones on a Stax headphone without even batting an eye. Would me or many others who come here ever drop coin like that on a headphone rig that pricey? The answer is a huge obvious NO because first most of us don't have the funds to drop money down like that and secondly the return, if any, isn't worth the gains in audio. That being said these people who are lucky enough to be able to afford to indulge themselves with high end gear have every right to without any interference from us. Like us they work for their money and have earned their money honestly so they are entitled to do anything they so choose with it. Considering what someone else chooses to do with his/her money is solely their business I really don't understand why some people get bent out of shape when they check a members profile and see a list of 10 DAC's and 20 amps. If that person chooses to invest his fun money in that way it's his/her business so why worry about it it's their money not anyone else's.
 
Lastly: Yes I agree there are some people, and I point out I'm using the word SOME, who come on here and arrogantly let comments out that gear number 1 only costs so much therefore it can't outperform gear number 2 because it costs X amount of money more. My view is why get worked up about it? If you really like your rig why should you care that so and so in the UK or so and so in France thinks your rig is cheap? You don't even know this person so why care what a total stranger thinks? This is a huge site with thousands upon thousands of threads if such a member really bothers you that much there's many many places on this site you can go and not have to put up with someone acting silly. If said person is harassing you wherever you go then send a PM to one of the MOD's and the problem will soon be solved.
 
Final and last comment on this thread from me
 
The glux of what I'm trying to say is if you keep things in perspective life on here is pretty cool. If you run around worrying about what other people think and worrying your gear isn't to snuff because the other guy paid more then you should seriously think about quitting the hobby because you're only going to drive yourself and others around you crazy. The same goes for people who create threads berating people saying they pay to much for their gear and throwing the insulting word "ignorant" around when someone disagrees with their statement. This is a hobby that's meant to be fun and meant to make the most out of our music not a venue to strut one's wares and go hey look at what I have this is far better then the other guy. This is also a place we all come to research information and it's hard enough to sift through all the fan boy comments without having to also sift through false comments like a Nexus X can easily drive a 300 ohm headphone. If the OP and his friends have been able to attain audio nirvana using the lowest priced gear they can find well then all I have to say is congratulations more power to all of you keep on rocking the house with your gear and I hope you all enjoy your little slice of nirvana for years to come. Some of us haven't though and we're here to research mix and match and experiment to hopefully get what we want. Those of us who are still searching I'm sure will eventually find the sound we want and then we will also be happy. If we attain our nirvana through slightly more costly components because it sounds better to our ears what possible concern should it be to the thread's OP and his friends? It's not as if the extra money me and others on here choose to spend is coming from anyone else's pocket except our's so why worry about it? Stop and give it some thought gentlemen in the end it's your time and frustration you save by understanding that not all people will ever see eye to eye with you and some subjects aren't worth getting worked up about.
 
Bless \m/

Lmao I'm not reading this.
 


Quote:

DACS measure differently, some have jitter at 2000psec some at 10psec, some have roll off starting at 12khz some are flat up to 22khz. Some sound cold and sterile , some sound tubey (is that a word?).
Some have images at 28khz , some at 96khz.
Some are NOS and some are not.
Some use Op Amps , some use Mosfet. Some use tubes in the output stage.
 
My point is that there are so many variables in DAC design that to say they all sound the same is , well .... bollocks.
 
 
 

Yeah and all of these variables are not audible.
 
I can't even hear the difference between 44.1khz and 192000khz. It doesn't matter because it depends on the recording.
 
 

 

[bisayaboi]

Quote:

And FYI, the current XFi chips are no longer the same quality or manufacture as during initial release.  They underwent considerable cost cutting measures.  XFi is a marketing label that means nothing.  Creative Labs is nothing but a whore now which could explain why your integrated audio sounds the same.  Maybe get an HP laptop w/ Beats by Dre?  

 
Goodnight.

You forgot that I also had an E7.
 
And to be honest, I don't really think you know anything about the X-FI chipsets. X-FI actually has uses for gaming. Besides DAC's by Creative Labs all had some pretty positive feedback here.
 

 
 

 

[LizardKing1]

Quote:

Generally wouldn't get sucked in, BUT...  In theory, if a dac is "good"  it should sound the same as other "good" dacs - wait, here me out - a dac is supposed to decode the music as it was recorded, and render it as it was recorded, not add a sound of its own.  So, if a "good" dac (or any dac for that matter) is doing its job appropriately, it should sound like another "good" dac doing it's job appropriately.  My limited experience with dacs (apogee duet, Cambridge audio dacmagic, pico dac/amp, headroom UDA with max dac, udac2, CEntrance Dacport LX, the V-Dac, headphonia dac cable, Leckerton UDA-4), and they all sound mostly the same, and just varying degrees of "good".  Amp and headphones are likely the limit in hearing just how "good" a dac is. Cables - meh.  As long is it is a good conductor, quality built, and of appropriate size for the load, I can't tell the difference.

This post pretty much made the rest irrelevant. It makes a lot of sense and explains the OP's ignorance opinions. Digital is either God-damn-near-perfect or absolute crap. There aren't as many gray spots for a digital device as there are for an analog device (or at least,a s far as I know).