[Acix]

 
Who said anything about copper?
 
All you need is a thick jacket and a supercooled superconductor.

 
What do you mean by "supercooled superconductor", gold?
 
The cable conductor material can effect a bit the sound character of the drivers. 

 

[Acix]

   
 

 
 
Great job on the review, keep up the good work!

 

[AUserName501]

Spoiler: Quote: Acix

   
What do you mean by "supercooled superconductor", gold?
 
The cable conductor material can effect a bit the sound character of the drivers. 

 

This is so true. I made some cables out of some old baked bean cans and it gave the sound a richer flavor. Some day I hope to be able to buy a Cardas BBC cable.

 

[irrational]

I just finished listening to a new recording on DG of Mahler's 9th Symphony. This was recorded live at the Los Angeles Disney Hall. The performance itself was hailed by the Los Angeles Times and other music critics, and is here presented in a beautifully recorded release.I listened to this on cd, and it was a very rewarding expirence on the K812. This Symphony represents all the best that Mahler had to offer, from life and death, to love and loss. The 812 provided all the grand and majestic sweep of the full orchestra. The strings were beautifully rendered, with warmth and precision. The horns had a power that was fully realized on the 812. The kettle drum thundered, violas and cellos sung their sweet song. This is a recording and performance by Gustavo Dudamel and the LA Phil of extraordinary beauty and sounds powerful and ravashing on the K812.

 
Must get the cd.  Thanks for the tip.

 

[macbob713]

Enjoy!

 

[Beagle]

  Has anyone tried the three tracks that sounded worst to Tyll?
 
Tiger Okoshi's "Bootsman's Little House"
Pinback's "Non Photo Blue"
Bob James' "New York Samba"
 
That's what I would do if wanted to know if his review is true. Listen to all three and ask myself, "Does this suck?"
 
That's the only way we can get to the bottom of "tizzy."

 
Don't forget to get his amp, source and ears....

 

[Claritas]

Don't forget to get his amp, source and ears....

Yeah, I thought about that later (at least the amp part), but honestly so long as the test are performed on a reasonably high-level system, it shouldn't matter.

I think someone who has it and a suitable system should take the Tyll challenge and tell us with a straight face whether K812 is tizzy or Tyll is.

 

[up late]

beagle's right and it does matter

 

[Claritas]

Not if the system is transparent. But I'm not going to argue with you more than that here because this isn't Sound Science.

 

[up late]

not looking to argue with you man. hope you get to try the can for yourself then all your questions will be answered.

 

[Sonido]

I wanted to add some more of my own personal research thoughts. I might get flamed for this unorthodox methodology. As we all know, some have mentioned concerns with these headphones, like Tyll, and other have not heard any of these issue and only talk about how great these are. Due to these inconsistencies, and not able to try them out myself, I wanted a more accurate way to determine how good these are, and a way to look past the various biases (new toy, early adopter, vindication of money well spent).
 
To try to normalize some of the bias, I decided to read up on some of the early impressions of the Beyerdynamic T1. Like the K812, these headphones were heavily compared to the HD800. Another similarity was that T1 also had issues in its graph, such as treble peaks. I chose about a couple months after the release to start reading, when at least a handful of people have obtained a pair. A solid place to start was page 48, about 3 months after the release date, and an informative post by Skylab:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/440799/beyerdynamic-to-launch-new-top-headphone-at-ifa-called-t1/690#post_6240528
http://www.head-fi.org/t/440799/beyerdynamic-to-launch-new-top-headphone-at-ifa-called-t1/840#post_6251421
 
Here MacedonianHero joins the fray:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/440799/beyerdynamic-to-launch-new-top-headphone-at-ifa-called-t1/1275#post_6306852
http://www.head-fi.org/t/440799/beyerdynamic-to-launch-new-top-headphone-at-ifa-called-t1/1335#post_6316126
 
Both very reputable forum members and contributors here. I read til page 100 or so as to get the general feel to how people were talking about those. I have to say the parallels were eerily similar. The ones who owned the headphones mostly talk about how these were on par or better than the HD800. There were comments about how the HD800 were too analytical, and the T1 was musical and more enjoyable. When some brought up the treble issues on the graphs, others countered with statements like "Graphs don't explain SOUND!! Or how the wave propagation is received by individual auditory capture devices."
 
Interestingly enough, neither Skylab or MacedonianHero own the T1 anymore. Granted, that doesn't mean much, as I'm quite guilty of being fickle with headphones myself. I don't think I've kept onto one for longer than 4 months since starting this hobby! Though most of those headphones were mid-fi headphones that I tried on my way to my current HD800 (M50, HD598, HD700, T90). I'm planning to sell my other two headphones besides the HD800 as well after the meet in April (HE-500, ESP950). I'm really loving my HD800 right now and I don't see myself selling them, but I've only had them since December, so who knows. However, unlike the headphones I went through, the T1 and K812, like the HD800, are all supposed to be endgame TOTL headphones.
 
I guess the takeaway is there definitely is hype and bias driving any headphone early on, and it's best wait it out. Looking at their profiles, it looks like Skylab has since moved onto the LCD-3, and MacedonianHero has sold his T1, but still owns the HD800. A great thing with a historical case study like this one is that you can see the end results. The T1 is definitely a great pair of headphones, but the general consensus today is that it's not quite on the level of the HD800. This was clearly seen when the T1 was on sale for $750, and unlike when the HD800 was sold at $890, there was not 4 pages of commentary that followed in the deals thread, and the deal didn't expire 20 minutes later. Even Tyll mentions that he does not place the T1 on the level of the HD800, and it sounds like he holds a similar view with the K812.
 
I don't know how the K812 will turn out, but history has shown one potential path the K812 could follow, and the parallels early on are similar. I didn't look too much into how early impressions of the HD800 were, but I read issues with brightness as well, and I'm sure there was just as much hype. In fact far more so. The first 20 pages or so on the announcement thread took place on the same day! So the K812 has the potential to follow the path of the HD800 as well. I guess unless you have to opportunity to listen and judge for yourself, early reviews are mixed with plenty of bias and should be taken with a grain of salt. Even if you get to listen to them, it's likely you'll still have some subconscious bias. From their reviews, I was surprised to find neither contributor owned the T1 anymore. But the more I thought about how the T1 is viewed today, it's not that surprising at all. Conscious or not, I'm sure that there was some bias in their reviews. The only surefire way around this is wait a while longer for a greater general consensus. A tried and true standard like the HD800 (and HD600 before that) is quite rare.

 

[M-13]

Okay Sonido I'm about go on a F####  rant on you so put on your flame suit and take a deep deep breath. You may want to sit down as I'm about to drop a brick on your head.
 
Haha. Just Kidding.

 
Interesting post! I like it! Your research is the kind of crazy thing I myself would have done. History does repeat itself on Head-Fi A LOT I've been officially here 2.5 years now and another one year of solid lurking before that, on and off lurking since 2006 actually. I don't know how many times I've encountered the same circle of arguments.
 
I believe Skylab and MacedonianHero both held the T1 in high regard for quite a while and resisted selling theirs. I definitely remember Skylab keeping his for a long time and even defending it quite often. But I'm sure they are reading this thread and will chime in soon enough with their current thoughts. The biggest problem with T1 was quality control. Some sounded great while others did not. This issue came to light after multiple pairs were measured quite different (this happened much later though).
 
I was doing my own research and found Tyll's review of the Abyss. The treble problem he describes for the Abyss is very similar to what he's describing for the K812, although he gives the Abyss a "stuff we like" award, so I guess the problem was less prominent for him. As you know many here think of the Abyss as one of the best if not the best currently produced headphone out there. Read that review because the treble issue sounds a lot like the issue for the K812 Tyll is describing.
 
I also think opinions on Head-fi have evolved a lot more now as we have collectively journeyed through many many flagships upon flagships, hypetrain after hypetrain. Things have really heated up since about 2010 and we've seen a lot of flagships and their eventual flaw discoveries and fall from grace. I think this collective experience gives the community and reviewers better opportunity to detect flaws. Our analysis is much more advanced than when the LCD-2 hype train was going full steam and people were saying it's the most neutral/greatest/epic/truthful headphone ever invented. Haha.
 
Right now, the way things stand, hype trains are less and less likely to get going on Head-Fi. I'm telling you Anti-Hype is the new hip/in thing to do. A reviewer must mention 5 or 6 bad things about a headphone for every 1 good thing to have any credibility and even that good thing must be stated cautiously using words like "maybe," "perhaps". If you say 5 good things and 1 bad thing, you are suddenly a biased fanboy who is justfiying his spending, LOL.

 
Seriously, sometimes there is actually a great product with very little flaws (sometimes). I'm not saying the K812 is this necessarily, but it just annoys me that we've swung so hard in the opposite direction of the hype pendulum now and any kind of praise is automatically ignored, ridiculed, and generally curb-stomped.
 
In my mind, the best explanation for our current situation is K812 quality control problem. I bet you the two pairs Tyll has sounds different from the one MuppetFace has, and the one I had. And I bet they even measure different. When a product is having QA issues it's not uncommon to have 2 or more bad pairs sound the same. In fact all the bad pairs will sound the similar, and all the good pair will sound similar too. This happened with Ultrasone and also Audez'e. I've seen this play out before many times during my stay on Head-Fi.
 
And thus your T1 research is spot on as the T1 even to this day still has QA issues (although considerably less now I hear)

 
*I hope to someday hear a super-pair, apparently these super T1s are amazing, like the fabled super LCD-3s. I think Purrin had one for half a day before it died on him and he's never heard another one like it (confirmed by Anax too, so it's not just him being drunk or being in a good mood).
 
*I also applaud you on going back a reading older threads. This is the passion of a true Head-Fier. Everyone should be doing this. Doing this has expanded my knowledge base considerably, while giving me perspective of how thoughts have evolved on Head-Fi. It makes me sad to think of all the members who are banned now, who contributed so much of their knoweldge (usually through various out of control rants

). Like to this day I still miss Googeli and WarriorAnt from the old LCD-2 thread. (Also, rythemdevil aka Ortho-master-god)

 

[Claritas]

I decided the other night that to be worth a grand, a model had better play well all ten or so genres and subgenres I listen to. Otherwise, I know that I can use a number of cheaper models to get the job done at the same cost. HD800 came closest and it flunked out on the harpsichord.

 

[Maxvla]

What? HD800s extra treble should make a harpsichord properly annoying.

 

[elwappo99]

 
I believe Skylab and MacedonianHero both held the T1 in high regard for quite a while and resisted selling theirs. I definitely remember Skylab keeping his for a long time and even defending it quite often. But I'm sure they are reading this thread and will chime in soon enough with their current thoughts. The biggest problem with T1 was quality control. Some sounded great while others did not. This issue came to light after multiple pairs were measured quite different (this happened much later though).
 
I also think opinions on Head-fi have evolved a lot more now as we have collectively journeyed through many many flagships upon flagships, hypetrain after hypetrain. Things have really heated up since about 2010 and we've seen a lot of flagships and their eventual flaw discoveries and fall from grace. I think this collective experience gives the community and reviewers better opportunity to detect flaws. Our analysis is much more advanced than when the LCD-2 hype train was going full steam and people were saying it's the most neutral/greatest/epic/truthful headphone ever invented. Haha.
 
And thus your T1 research is spot on as the T1 even to this day still has QA issues (although considerably less now I hear)

 
*I also applaud you on going back a reading older threads. This is the passion of a true Head-Fier. Everyone should be doing this. Doing this has expanded my knowledge base considerably, while giving me perspective of how thoughts have evolved on Head-Fi. It makes me sad to think of all the members who are banned now, who contributed so much of their knoweldge (usually through various out of control rants

). Like to this day I still miss Googeli and WarriorAnt from the old LCD-2 thread. (Also, rythemdevil aka Ortho-master-god)

 
A good import from those reviews/histories is that you have to really know who is reviewing the headphone, and how much credibility they have. High post count and owning a lot of headphones doesn't mean they are going to be accurate. I find a review that person posted that coincides with gear I have owned, to compare for accuracy For example, calling the T1 "neutral" is a pretty clear flag to me, not to mention all the flaws the T1s have that were not pointed out.  Tyll's reviews and comments usually coincide with the measurements, and he's got a solid understanding on how technical factors affect the sound. I hold his reviews pretty high. I think when CSD's for the K812 pop up, we'll see a lot of oddities in the treble. 
 
Many of longer running head-fi members are wary to the new release of a headphone. In recent history a long line of new headphones that were cranked out were pretty miserable headphones for the price (Sennheiser HD700, Denon D7100, Beyer T90, etc), which were predated by a series of arguably really good headphone releases (Hifiman HE-5, Hifiman HE-5LE, Audeze LCD-2, Sennheiser HD800, Hifiman HE-6). BTW, that LCD-2 hype train was epic. But, honestly the LCD-2 is still a benchmark in the progression of headphones. It still stands as one of the top three most neutral headphones. 
 
Rhythemdevil's rants were incredibly interesting. I think he's got a lot of good information and he's really insightful, even though his discourse could be harsh at times. The departing of a few other members at the time really changed the tone on the technical discussion of headphones, which really should be had.