[Mhog55]

Hey folks. Just how power hungry are these? Will high impedance mode on the LG v30 do these cans justice? Are they as hard to drive as planars? Hoping to hear from someone who is using either set of cans with an LG V30 / 20 or Korean G6. I want some, but only if I can drive them to near full potential without an amp. Thx

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

Not as hard as planars. My k702’s sound great with my Dragonfly Red.

 

[Mhog55]

Not as hard as planars. My k702’s sound great with my Dragonfly Red.

Cool, thank you. Which cans would you suggest between the two for rock? Which is more mid centric without harshness. I can't do hot treble.

 

[Me x3]

Being a planar means nothing in terms of how hard to drive a headphone is.
You'll find planars that are easy to drive and planars that aren't easy to drive.

Most planars are easier to drive than AKG K702/K712. That includes:
-HE400
-HE400S
-HE400i
-Edition X (V1/V2)
-LCD-2/LCD-2F
-LCD-3/LCD3F
-LCD-X
-Ether and Ether Flow
-PM1
etc...

Some planars are harder to drive than AKG K702/K712:
-HE560
-HE4
-HE1000
-HE5/6
-LCD-4
-Abyss AB-1266

LG V30 is far from powerful, so it's not a good match for these AKGs unless your planning to use it with a portable headphone amplifier.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

Cool, thank you. Which cans would you suggest between the two for rock? Which is more mid centric without harshness. I can't do hot treble.

I’ve never heard the K712 but most people agree it sounds very similar to the K702, Q701, and K7XX. The K702 does not have harsh treble to my ears. It’s definitely smoother than pretty much any Beyerdynamic or Sennheiser 700 and 800.

 

[Mhog55]

Being a planar means nothing in terms of how hard to drive a headphone is.
You'll find planars that are easy to drive and planars that aren't easy to drive.

Most planars are easier to drive than AKG K702/K712. That includes:
-HE400
-HE400S
-HE400i
-Edition X (V1/V2)
-LCD-2/LCD-2F
-LCD-3/LCD3F
-LCD-X
-Ether and Ether Flow
-PM1
etc...

Some planars are harder to drive than AKG K702/K712:
-HE560
-HE4
-HE1000
-HE5/6
-LCD-4
-Abyss AB-1266

LG V30 is far from powerful, so it's not a good match for these AKGs unless your planning to use it with a portable headphone amplifier.

Interesting. In the LG V30 thread, under portable source gear, many have stated that most planars are harder to drive to optimal levels. I was really wanting the he4xx, but my phone won't drive them enough. Obviously a part of this is due to the 93db as well. Have you used one of the LG phones with the integrated quad dacs? I'm also looking at the Monolith m560. It doesn't have as large and heavy drivers, so that might be an option. Seems to be a lot of disagreement as to what these phones can and can't drive. I know it won't drive the 240 Sextetts, but those are also 600 ohms. The k7 series must be rather power hungry. At this point I'm just extremely confused. I wish there was some place I could demo some of these cans with my phone.

 

[Me x3]

I was thinking about V30 in regular mode. There's no need to be confused.

In the most powerful mode the V30 should be just fine to drive these headphones (HE4XX/HE400i/K7-series) up to moderate/healthy listening levels. Not ideal pairings but they will work.

For reference:
- Hifiman HE4XX is 93dB/mW
- AKG K7-series is measured to be approx 90-91dB/mW
- Monolith M560 is supposed to be 100dB/mW so it's very easy to drive.
- Sexttet needs tons of voltage so it's not the one to use with V30.

You can also go with the HE400S which is said to be 98dB/mW (probably 95-96dB/mW in real life, but still safe).
If you enjoy very loud levels then skip HE4XX and K7-series, otherwise pick the one that suits your preferences the best. These headphones can last a decade or more.
You can always enjoy now, get a better amp in the future and keep enjoying.

 

[Mhog55]

I was thinking about V30 in regular mode. There's no need to be confused.

In the most powerful mode the V30 should be just fine to drive these headphones (HE4XX/HE400i/K7-series) up to moderate/healthy listening levels. Not ideal pairings but they will work.

For reference:
- Hifiman HE4XX is 93dB/mW
- AKG K7-series is measured to be approx 90-91dB/mW
- Monolith M560 is supposed to be 100dB/mW so it's very easy to drive.
- Sexttet needs tons of voltage so it's not the one to use with V30.

You can also go with the HE400S which is said to be 98dB/mW (probably 95-96dB/mW in real life, but still safe).
If you enjoy very loud levels then skip HE4XX and K7-series, otherwise pick the one that suits your preferences the best. These headphones can last a decade or more.
You can always enjoy now, get a better amp in the future and keep enjoying.

Right on. Appreciate the info. It's interesting, the hifiman is planar, but the akg has lower db rating. Tit for Tat, or quite the opposite. I really want to experience planars, and I listened to Zs sound demo on the he4xx via my most neutral cans. If it's remotely accurate, I loved the sound signature, but could deal with a little less brightness in the treble. Does this sound like the hifiman he-400s? On a side note, will the akg k7 series be to analytical to to make rock n roll fun as it should be?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Hey folks. Just how power hungry are these? ... Are they as hard to drive as planars?

As hard to drive as the HE400x series in terms of power requirement. Both are at 93dB/1mW (others convert the efficiency 101dB/1V figure and get lower than that though). Response varies so while the HE400i wouldn't have trouble reproducing very low bass, if your music barely has that, then the boosted upper bass on the K7xx series will seem like it has more punch than the HiFiMan.

Otherwise they're easier to drive vs other, harder to drive planars; and the HE400S is very easy to drive next to all these.

Will high impedance mode on the LG v30 do these cans justice? ... Hoping to hear from someone who is using either set of cans with an LG V30 / 20 or Korean G6. I want some, but only if I can drive them to near full potential without an amp. Thx

LG doesn't list power output at any impedance load but if you want a mathematical assurance that anymore power will be totally (not just practically) useless, you need about 500mW at 62ohms. That's just power quantity - quality wise you'd have to consider if all that 500mW (or more) has very low noise and distortion. I'd seriously doubt the LG Quad DAC can whip out that much power. However if you listen at very low volume in a very quiet room, they can be passable.

That said, why not look into the HiFiMan HE400S? Just get the focus pads for it, otherwise it has a similar enough response curve as the K7xx series; any differences can be outweighed by its 98dB/1mW sensitivity, which basically means it needs just a little over a quarter of the power that the K7xx series needs to get to the same output level. Its 24ohm impedance won't automatically trigger Quad DAC but you can just root it to run it by default.

Other than that, personally I'd much rather get an IEM for a smartphone, even with the higher output of the Quad DAC. THD and noise increases with the Quad DAC activated so you're not getting as clean as the default setting output, and you'd go through the battery faster.

 

[Mhog55]

As hard to drive as the HE400x series in terms of power requirement. Both are at 93dB/1mW (others convert the efficiency 101dB/1V figure and get lower than that though). Response varies so while the HE400i wouldn't have trouble reproducing very low bass, if your music barely has that, then the boosted upper bass on the K7xx series will seem like it has more punch than the HiFiMan.

Otherwise they're easier to drive vs other, harder to drive planars; and the HE400S is very easy to drive next to all these.




LG doesn't list power output at any impedance load but if you want a mathematical assurance that anymore power will be totally (not just practically) useless, you need about 500mW at 62ohms. That's just power quantity - quality wise you'd have to consider if all that 500mW (or more) has very low noise and distortion. I'd seriously doubt the LG Quad DAC can whip out that much power. However if you listen at very low volume in a very quiet room, they can be passable.

That said, why not look into the HiFiMan HE400S? Just get the focus pads for it, otherwise it has a similar enough response curve as the K7xx series; any differences can be outweighed by its 98dB/1mW sensitivity, which basically means it needs just a little over a quarter of the power that the K7xx series needs to get to the same output level. Its 24ohm impedance won't automatically trigger Quad DAC but you can just root it to run it by default.

Other than that, personally I'd much rather get an IEM for a smartphone, even with the higher output of the Quad DAC. THD and noise increases with the Quad DAC activated so you're not getting as clean as the default setting output, and you'd go through the battery faster.

Okay, most of this is a tad over my head, but I get the just of it. So you think my phone will get the 400s up to desirable listening levels? I can trick the phone into high impedance mode with an impedance adapter. This would definitely be the cans I go with if so. I can't do IEMs.
On a side note, can anyone recommend other higher impedance, open back cans that will trigger the phones high impedance mode without the need for an adapter? Something only moderately power hungry that will sound good with classic rock.

 

[Me x3]

Right on. Appreciate the info. It's interesting, the hifiman is planar, but the akg has lower db rating. Tit for Tat, or quite the opposite. I really want to experience planars, and I listened to Zs sound demo on the he4xx via my most neutral cans. If it's remotely accurate, I loved the sound signature, but could deal with a little less brightness in the treble. Does this sound like the hifiman he-400s? On a side note, will the akg k7 series be to analytical to to make rock n roll fun as it should be?

HE400S is not the same as HE4XX as expected but they share the general signature and type of drivers.
As suggested, you should get the Focus A pads with them.

AKG K7-series are analytical headphones.
AKG K712 paired with a clean and impactful amplifier can serve you very well for rock/metal.
Skip K701 and K702 since these are lighter in the bass, and more forward sounding. More picky with recordings and pairing.

 

[Me x3]

On a side note, can anyone recommend other higher impedance, open back cans that will trigger the phones high impedance mode without the need for an adapter? Something only moderately power hungry that will sound good with classic rock.

Yep, Sennheiser HD600 and HD650

 

[Mhog55]

HE400S is not the same as HE4XX as expected but they share the general signature and type of drivers.
As suggested, you should get the Focus A pads with them.

AKG K7-series are analytical headphones.
AKG K712 paired with a clean and impactful amplifier can serve you very well for rock/metal.
Skip K701 and K702 since these are lighter in the bass, and more forward sounding. More picky with recordings and pairing.

Thanks. I think the 712 is out of my price range for now. Probably going to give the 400s a go

 

[Mhog55]

Yep, Sennheiser HD600 and HD650

Which has a better SQ for rock? I would prefer a little more up front (nothing crazy) than laid back...... If that makes sense

 

[Me x3]

Both are similarly good. I've owned the HD600 but it was a few years back, I still own the HD650.
HD600 is more forward and focused while HD650 is smoother and just a bit more microdetailed.
They aren't very laid back but they are relatively soft. They are coherent, easy on the ears (warm + no sibilance) and work well with a very wide range of music.
If you want sharp attack, fast bass and sparkly treble, look elsewhere.