[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cotdt /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's true!

I prefer the 701's over my SA5000/650's.. But I doubt I would give up my SA5000/650's

 

[MontanaJustin]

Hah - it seems I am about a month behind AST. I too plan on purchasing the K701s, which will be my first real headphones. Also planning to pick up either a Tomohawk amp or the Headroom Micro. I'll see everybody at the April Festivities in San Jose.
All of these posts have been extremely helpful - keep on rockin!

 

[Dan the man]

Grado GS1000 vs Recabled AKG 701?

Has anyone compared these two?

 

[Dan the man]

If you have the Doge 6210 amp why do you need the Zapfilter as an amp with the Zhaolu?

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by devwild /img/forum/go_quote.gif Glad to know I'm not alone, I had the same impression. That's why I started messing with foam modding.

I suspect that the differences we perceive in headstage/soundstage have to do with the way our brain integrates subtle (sub 1db) differences in FR and perhaps subtle phase relationships throughout the mids and highs in virtual placement within our mind's eye. The reason we perceive differently in part is due to the fact that the shape of our outer ears and ear canals differ, and thus affect the sound we hear differently. Our brains accommodate the way our individual ears physically alter the sound that makes it to our eardrums. They integrate what we see and hear over time to create the reality we perceive.

When you listen to a headphone, you're replacing that natural far field FR and phase contouring that your brain has been trained for, with a sculptured near field FR by the headphone designer to approximate the far field sound the "average" person hears. Since we're all different, we all perceive and integrate this "average" differently.

 

[drarthurwells]

For the record, I now think the HD600 with Cardas cable is the best headphone I have ever heard - superior to Stax electrostatics in overall realism.

The 650 with Cardas cable has too much coloration, and less clarity, compared to the HD600 with Cardas cable.

The K701 lacks the 3-D imaging of the SA5000, but the K701 has more tone body than the SA5000, but less detail and less 3-D imaging. The SA5000 is also bright. The K701 does not have the etched 3-D imaging of either the SA5000 or the HD 600.

I rate them now as:

1. HD600 (stock 600 or 650 cable has some glare and lean tone body though - these problems are ovecome with the Cardas cable).

2. K701 or HD650

3. SA 5000 (love the detail and imaging though)


Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif I suspect that the differences we perceive in headstage/soundstage have to do with the way our brain integrates subtle (sub 1db) differences in FR and perhaps subtle phase relationships throughout the mids and highs in virtual placement within our mind's eye. The reason we perceive differently in part is due to the fact that the shape of our outer ears and ear canals differ, and thus affect the sound we hear differently. Our brains accommodate the way our individual ears physically alter the sound that makes it to our eardrums. They integrate what we see and hear over time to create the reality we perceive. When you listen to a headphone, you're replacing that natural far field FR and phase contouring that your brain has been trained for, with a sculptured near field FR by the headphone designer to approximate the far field sound the "average" person hears. Since we're all different, we all perceive and integrate this "average" differently.

It is true that we all hear differently from one another, not only due to the shape of our ears and ear canal but also due to our individual frequency response and timbral (tone body) discrimination and resolution of our ear drums and related structures.

However, there is no change between far field FR (as from speakers) and near field FR (as from HPs) that would be more compatible with some ears than with others, or would make some prefer one HP and others another HP. The change is in the presence (speakers) or absence (HPs) of room reflections that induces phase distortions that perhaps color the sound or perhaps enhance the spatial qualities of the sound. Our individual hearing is irrelevant here.

Whatever influence our ear shape and ear canal shape, we adapt to it as reality, even though it is our own personal reality. Our ears may change the sound compared to other ears, but through adaptation it is our ears that become natural sound conduits while the ears of others would sound unnatural if we could try these ears on and listen. Our ears provide our definition of natural sound whether from far field live or speaker sound, or near field HP sound. When we select one component over another, we do so because it sounds more natural and not because it mates well with our particular ears.

As we get older our high frequency sensitivity diminishes. Yet we do not prefer bright components that compensate for this loss, as such sound is too bright. We prefer a flat FR that matches how we hear natural sound, even though we do not have flat FR in our hearing sensitivity.

Our ears and hearing may differ (within limits), but we still prefer a component that sounds most like real, natural sound and we can agree on what this is in spite of our hearing differences. The exception here is when our hearing is much impaired. Somenone who has very low hearing sensitivity will prefer a loud and more forward sounding component that compensates for their poor hearing.

 

[donunus]

hmm, are your 650s the one with the metal grilles on the driver?

 

[greggf]

drarthurwells,

Interesting reassessment of headphones on your part.

I've had all the ones you mention - minus the Cardas for the two Senns - and agree with your order of quality now.

The HD600 is a surprising headphone............... a real long distance runner in the sound quality game.

 

[drarthurwells]

Quote:

Originally Posted by greggf /img/forum/go_quote.gif drarthurwells, Interesting reassessment of headphones on your part. I've had all the ones you mention - minus the Cardas for the two Senns - and agree with your order of quality now. The HD600 is a surprising headphone............... a real long distance runner in the sound quality game.

The Cardas cable elevates the HD600/HD580 to a level above any other headphone in my experience - overcomes the glare and leaness to the tone using the stock HD650 or HD600 cable.

The difference between the Cardas and stock cables, with the HD600/580 HPs are like night and day in a high resolution headphone system. The Bada PH12 is very high resolution with the tube set-up I use - any subtle nuance in tone texture or color is clearly revealed - not so with many other tube set-ups even though the sound is quite good otherwise.

I loaned out my Cardas for a while and listened to the HD600 with the stock HD650 cable and hated listening - couldn't wait to get back my Cardas cable.

 

[siddiquehanif]

drarthurwells!
you are saying:
The difference between the Cardas and stock cables, with the HD600/580 HPs are like night and day in a high resolution headphone system.

I have the headamp pico using my laptop as source, will there be no difference, subtle difference or high difference if not the night and day. would it be worthwhile to spend for the aftermarket cables for the hd600/650 in my setup?

regards,

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by siddiquehanif /img/forum/go_quote.gif drarthurwells! you are saying: The difference between the Cardas and stock cables, with the HD600/580 HPs are like night and day in a high resolution headphone system. I have the headamp pico using my laptop as source, will there be no difference, subtle difference or high difference if not the night and day. would it be worthwhile to spend for the aftermarket cables for the hd600/650 in my setup? regards,

Minimal difference when I had the Cardas with my 650's.. Very disappointed. I still would recommend a aftermarket cable for the 600/650, just don't go in expecting mind rumbing results.. The tops right now is probably The V3/Stephan arts/Zu/Black Dragon/ Jena labs.

 

[drarthurwells]

Quote:

Originally Posted by siddiquehanif /img/forum/go_quote.gif drarthurwells! you are saying: The difference between the Cardas and stock cables, with the HD600/580 HPs are like night and day in a high resolution headphone system. I have the headamp pico using my laptop as source, will there be no difference, subtle difference or high difference if not the night and day. would it be worthwhile to spend for the aftermarket cables for the hd600/650 in my setup? regards,

I can not say for sure. The problem with the Stock HD600 or HD650 cable, compared to the Cardas, was a lean tone body that lacked life in masking timbral nuances, and a glare that gave a hardness to the tones that was irritating. The Cardas overcame these problems - full rich tones and highly resolved timbral nuances, and no glare.

In my system, using two Chinese 6SN7 and one Ken Rad VT231 6SN7 in my Bada PH12, the Cardas and HD600/580 is perfect. This tube complement can be brutally honest and demands top components and cables. Given that, it is perfect as headphone sound can be - compared to other equipment I have owned.

 

[drarthurwells]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif Minimal difference when I had the Cardas with my 650's.. Very disappointed. I still would recommend a aftermarket cable for the 600/650, just don't go in expecting mind rumbing results.. The tops right now is probably The V3/Stephan arts/Zu/Black Dragon/ Jena labs.

I did not like the Cardas and HD650 combo - tones were too rich and euphonic - unnatural to me. This combo may work in some systems that are too lean in tone but it did not work well in my system.

 

[00264167]

reviving a bit of an old thread but is the sa5000 (£300) really worth that much more than the sa1000 (£86) given that from what ive read its basically the same thing.
the k701 is about £200 so if the sa1000 is as good as the 5000 then thats great value.

 

[jfiveeight]

Since this thread was bumped a few days ago and i had posted a question concerning these two phones in a thread no one with great background knowledge would most likely post in, i feel compelled to post the jist of what i am thinking here.

The debate is mainly from a First Person Shooter gaming perspective, trying to locate enemies from footsteps and gunshots and how far away they are, which would do better? Also, I'm wondering which is the "faster, more detailed" phone and your rating on how comfortable they are, both on the head and listening to their sound signature for hours on end.

Thanks.