[dcstep]

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1sixerfan /img/forum/go_quote.gif AKG has always had this type of sound signature. My personal belief is that they roll off the bass to maintain a nuetral and transparent sound so that the bass does not overtake the rest of the spectrum.

Yes, but how is it that they measure so flat? I find it hard to believe the published graphs.

BTW, I think they're fantastic headphones.

Dave

 

[pataburd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1sixerfan /img/forum/go_quote.gif . . . I don't think you can fix the problem at all. It is either get used to them or get rid of them. Good Luck!

Well spoken! : )

I myself can't seem to get rid of them. : )

From time to time, I audition another headphone that I think will provide something the K701 seems to lack (e.g. "strong" bass response). Invariably, though, it comes at the expense of sacrificing more of the better things that the K701 offers (e.g. clarity, vibrancy, dynamics, openness, balance).

Right now, I am a/b-ing the HD600 w/RAL recable. Sure, I honestly like the HD600 (my favorite of the Sennheiser HD580/600/650 trio), but I also realize that I like the K701 even better. : )

 

[Acoustic Chef]

I'm sorry guys but I'm not hearing this roll off, In-fact I hear quite the opposite. It's actually the K701's low-end extension and accuracy that sends me head over heals.
Through swapping out component after component I’ve witnessed a truth to where I would be extremely hesitant in associating a roll off to these headphones.
I’ve shined these puppies up to a point where I almost lost interest... I was like; ‘If I want to listen to something this accurate, why am I even investing all my time and money into this?’

I've heard these things black as night and bright as day.. TRUST THEM.

 

[pataburd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acoustic Chef /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm sorry guys but I'm not hearing this roll off, In-fact I hear quite the opposite. It's actually the K701's low-end extension and accuracy that sends me head over heals. Through swapping out component after component I’ve witnessed a truth to where I would be extremely hesitant in associating a roll off to these headphones. I’ve shined these puppies up to a point where I almost lost interest... I was like; ‘If I want to listen to something this accurate, why am I even investing all my time and money into this?’ I've heard these things black as night and bright as day.. TRUST THEM.

Truly spoken. The K701 have deep, detailed bass. Not as "swollen" and prominent as, say, the HD650, but definitely more extended and nuanced. The more I listen to the K701, the more pleased I am with their overall frequency balance, and the more sensitive I become of (what I now perceive as) over emphasis from other cans.

To me it's the wide-open nature of the K701, the way the music is rendered--like a burgeoning spring bud coming to flower, that makes them my consistent favorite. : )

p.s., The Bada PH-12 3x 6SN7/MosFET hybrid amp drives the K701 very well, too! : )

 

[dcstep]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pataburd /img/forum/go_quote.gif Truly spoken. The K701 have deep, detailed bass. Not as "swollen" and prominent as, say, the HD650, but definitely more extended and nuanced. ...

Have you "measured" the bass response with a test CD or record? I agree that the bass it has is detailed and not swollen, but I'm not so sure it's all that deep. When I listen with my Stereophile test CD I hear a very steep roll off at around 30Hz.

Dave

 

[SergioRZ]

Just tested mine with Alan Parsons Sound Check CD (MFSL) with the sine sweep and with individual tones at 20hz, 25hz, 31hz... and so on...

I could not detect the steep roll off around 20 or 30 hz... 20hz feels more like a vibration, not a sound, which is correct. 25hz start to feel more like a sound, a a little bit more intense on the 701's... 31... 40... and so on, all very progressive in the way sound becomes more present and less a vibration.

Where I did notice some steep increase was around the mids and mid high's, probably 1000hz or something like that (I heard it clearly in a sine sweep, will try to find it in the individual tones to figure out where exactly the steep increase occurs). Actually I think this was mentioned before, that the 701's have a little increase in the high mid frequencies...

 

[dcstep]

Unfortunately, it's hard to put an SPL meter on cans while retaining a seal. I think I'll still try it with the cans open just to see some gross changes.

Dave

 

[jh4db536]

I did the exact same test on it using my IASCA reference cd which is how i came to my conclusions. Track 35 - Sign sweep 1hz to 200hz in 1hz/1second increments. My 650 can make like a helicopter/earthquake just went over my head compared to the 701. The 701 starts making SOMETHING barely audible at ~17seconds~17hz whereas the 650 is going strong starting at ~10seconds~10hz. I can hear a feint clicking sound = the diaphragm/driver vibrating VERY slow at very low frequencies...i hear it vibrating but making no audible sound. That's a VERY noticeable difference to me, i dont need any metering or SPL equipment to figure out what's going on there.

this is coming out of my DAC1 (which is supposedly more focused on highs anyway), when i get my RSA Apache sometime next week or so...i expect the 650's to make a drastic improvement in the bass department for control and a flat curve down there.

BTW, at ~90 hours my 701's are starting to sound really good again. it seriously sounded like crap between 30-75 hours (been running pink noise and sine sweeps almost 24/7). Listening to Windham Hill guitar sampler or Susan wong...damn.

I figured out that SEAL/ear cup position matters a LOT with these headphones. I might experiment by smashing the earpads with a heavy phonebook or something. You can also reposition the earcups 90degrees. I tried all 4 positions 12,9,6,3 o'clock with different results. For people with big heads, i think the yellow foam notch MUST be in the 6 o'clock position.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SergioRZ /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just tested mine with Alan Parsons Sound Check CD (MFSL) with the sine sweep and with individual tones at 20hz, 25hz, 31hz... and so on... I could not detect the steep roll off around 20 or 30 hz... 20hz feels more like a vibration, not a sound, which is correct. 25hz start to feel more like a sound, a a little bit more intense on the 701's... 31... 40... and so on, all very progressive in the way sound becomes more present and less a vibration. Where I did notice some steep increase was around the mids and mid high's, probably 1000hz or something like that (I heard it clearly in a sine sweep, will try to find it in the individual tones to figure out where exactly the steep increase occurs). Actually I think this was mentioned before, that the 701's have a little increase in the high mid frequencies...

 

[dcstep]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jh4db536 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I did the exact same test on it using my IASCA reference cd which is how i came to my conclusions. Track 35 - Sign sweep 1hz to 200hz in 1hz/1second increments. My 650 can make like a helicopter/earthquake just went over my head compared to the 701. The 701 starts making SOMETHING barely audible at ~17seconds~17hz whereas the 650 is going strong starting at ~10seconds~10hz. I can hear a feint clicking sound = the diaphragm/driver vibrating VERY slow at very low frequencies...i hear it vibrating but making no audible sound.

That's consistant with my listening test with the Steriophile Test CD, except I never went below 20Hz, which was audible, but giantly rolled off from 30Hz.

Some of us are seeking great reproduction of music and some look for great reproduction of sound effects. These super low frequencies are not near as important to a music listerner as to a gamer our AV enthusiast. I find that getting low bass out of a loudspeaker via placement is very hard to get right without messing up the midrange presentation. I suspect that the same issues befuddle headphone designers.

What I'm befuddled about at this point is how the Headroom frequency charts can show the AKG so flat down to 20Hz, yet we hear something very different. Do we have an "expert" here that can explain that? There seems to be a total disconnect between those charts and what we hear.

Dave

 

[jh4db536]

bass isn't all that important to me, and these are open headphones to make it worst. My atrio IEM makes a lot of bass or the car setup. Heavy bass during explosions in games is fatiguing for me. I think i mentioned in another thread that i did better in CSS with the 701 over the 650.

i think you should trust your own ears before those graphs

 

[dcstep]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jh4db536 /img/forum/go_quote.gif i think you should trust your own ears before those graphs

I DO trust my ears.

So, I guess it says that those graphs are rigged. Looking at those graphs there's very little difference between three or four top cans, yet we're hearing VERY different results in the field. Why wouldn't Headroom give us accurate graphs? I'm hoping someone will jump to their defense and give a meaningful explaination.

BTW, I'm from the camp that says that listening to music is the most meaningful way to compare audio components. I just think that measurements should help us to understand what we hear and not be the basis for a decision of one over the others. I still prefer the AKG over the Senn 650 for their clarity and detailed midrange.

Dave

 

[Acoustic Chef]

Well here it is again.

I trust the graphs cuz thats what I hear...

 

[dcstep]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acoustic Chef /img/forum/go_quote.gif I trust the graphs cuz thats what I hear...

Which test recording or sinewave generator did you use?

Dave

 

[Crazy88]

Aren't low frequencies supposed to be more difficult for the human ear to hear? From what I remember, more amplitude is required in low frequencies for them to be equally audible with higher frequencies.

 

[SergioRZ]

Quote:

My 650 can make like a helicopter/earthquake just went over my head compared to the 701. The 701 starts making SOMETHING barely audible at ~17seconds~17hz whereas the 650 is going strong starting at ~10seconds~10hz. I can hear a feint clicking sound = the diaphragm/driver vibrating VERY slow at very low frequencies...i hear it vibrating but making no audible sound. That's a VERY noticeable difference to me, i dont need any metering or SPL equipment to figure out what's going on there.

Are we supposed to hear anything at all below 20hz? Besides the vibration of course... I think it is really strange that the 650 is strong making sound at 20hz, and at 10hz is really very weird.

Quote:

I figured out that SEAL/ear cup position matters a LOT with these headphones. I might experiment by smashing the earpads with a heavy phonebook or something. You can also reposition the earcups 90degrees. I tried all 4 positions 12,9,6,3 o'clock with different results. For people with big heads, i think the yellow foam notch MUST be in the 6 o'clock position.

How can the pads be removed? Are there any instructions on how to do this without ruining the pads/cans?

I have a big head... where is that yellow foam notch?