Advice on buying a first DAC/Amp combo in 40 - 600 price range (discussion)
Sep 26, 2016 at 8:40 PM Post #16 of 37
  First you can get the Jotunheim as a pure amp for $399, the dac is extra for $100. Second Modi has a Multibit upgrade: http://schiit.com/news/news/introducing-modi-multibit. Here are some impressions http://www.head-fi.org/t/815368/happy-as-a-pig-in-schiit-introducing-modi-multibit. Which everyone praises for it's low price compared to high performance. If you want to save some some claim the internal dac on the jotunheim is decent enough.
 
Since the Mojo is $599 (and very good for the price), it is natural to try to beat it in terms of performance vs price. Without a doubt it is the best portable setup, but you can argubly get a better permanent setup for the same money.
 
However it boils down to what you are interested in. The Jotunheim is claimed as a very neutral amp which can drive pretty much anything. I have been eyeballing the *IFI iCAN SE* ($359 / $289) myself. It has a bass option and can also drive everything. I would go for the multibit + either iFi Micro iCAN or Jotuneheim. They are about the same when considering shipping.

 
Okay, now it makes some sense. For the UK the prices are £385 and £485 for Jotunheim .
Although I am concerned about the Jotunheim DAC inputs - seems it only has USB input, is that correct?
 
Mojo is not for me I guess. It only offers a 3.5 mm jack. 
 
A very neutral amp is indeed what I am looking for and I'd be happy to purchase the DAC card for it, but I suspect Modi would beat it, plus no coaxial input. Sad.
 
Sep 27, 2016 at 12:39 AM Post #18 of 37
 
http://www.musicalfidelity.com/v90-hpa

 
Wow, 50 ohms!
And the manufacturer claims it's suitable for 10-600 ohm headphones. Ha-ha, nice joke.
Thanks, I haven't noticed that.
 
Sep 27, 2016 at 12:44 AM Post #19 of 37
   
Wow, 50 ohms!
And the manufacturer claims it's suitable for 10-600 ohm headphones. Ha-ha, nice joke.
Thanks, I haven't noticed that.

 
What I would guess is that they're basically saying that the lost damping factor results in bass boost rather than the opposite. The 30ohm Burson amps do the same with every headphone.
 
Sep 27, 2016 at 12:44 AM Post #20 of 37
If you want to make a safe bet, I'd say take the Schiit Modi 2 Uber and Schiit Magni 2 Uber.
IMO can't really go wrong there.
If you want a sexy all in one that sounds better though (and don't hesitate that these are all-in-one solutions, they still have great value), try the JDS Labs Element, or the most recently released Schiit Jotunheim.
 
Sep 27, 2016 at 1:02 AM Post #21 of 37
 
The 30ohm Burson amps do the same with every headphone.

 
Ehm? Do all Burson amps have 30 ohms output? O_O 
Some people have been saying that the Burson Soloist is exteremly neutral amlifier that would suit my HE-500 (when I can afford it)...
 
 
  If you want to make a safe bet, I'd say take the Schiit Modi 2 Uber and Schiit Magni 2 Uber.
IMO can't really go wrong there.
If you want a sexy all in one that sounds better though (and don't hesitate that these are all-in-one solutions, they still have great value), try the JDS Labs Element, or the most recently released Schiit Jotunheim.

 
Ventace, thank you. I haven't heard anything about JDS Labs Element, I'll chech the information and prices. 
 
I was thinking about the simple Modi-Magni combo, but wasn't sure if Magni has enough power. Plus Modi doesn't have any coaxial input, which I need for my iBasso player - it's only available in Uber and Multibit versions.
 
Jotunheim is the new discovery for me, haven't heard that Schiit is making all-in-ones, but it does not have coaxil input and there are no Uber-Multibit versions for it. Plus I feel suspicious about the DAC option that costs £100 compared to the £380 price of the amplifier. I hope I'm wrong though.
 
UPD on JDS: No coaxial input. Although the high level of technical details provided on their webpage is a very pleasant thing. But why do manufacturers keep making DACs with only USB input available? 
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Sep 27, 2016 at 1:12 AM Post #22 of 37
   
Ehm? Do all Burson amps have 30 ohms output? O_O
Some people have been saying that the Burson Soloist is exteremly neutral amlifier that would suit my HE-500 (when I can afford it)...
 
 
 
Ventace, thank you. I haven't heard anything about JDS Labs Element, I'll chech the information and prices.
 
I was thinking about the simple Modi-Magni combo, but wasn't sure if Magni has enough power. Plus Modi doesn't have any coaxial input, which I need for my iBasso player - it's only available in Uber and Multibit versions.
 
Jotunheim is the new discovery for me, haven't heard that Schiit is making all-in-ones, but it does not have coaxil input and there are no Uber-Multibit versions for it. Plus I feel suspicious about the DAC option that costs £100 compared to the £380 price of the amplifier. I hope I'm wrong though.


I personally think the Magni 2 Uber should have enough power, but I can't exactly guarantee it.
Well, if you're willing to take a bit of a risk, you could try using the Schiit Valhalla.
They similar to the HD600's in the way that, they're kind of like a holy grail for everything that scales well with everything.
It'd drive Sennheiser's to their absolute maximum potential, yet can drive Audeze's EL-8 series pretty much perfectly as well.
The only thing about it I'm not so sure you'd like is the fact you may have to roll tubes, and maybe even replace them.
Some people think tube amps shouldn't go well with some planars, but I don't see how one could go wrong with the Valhalla.
Schiit even claims they drive Hifiman's HE400's, Oppo's PM-1's, and even some of Audeze's LCD's really well.
Oh and if you ever see a discount, try to get an Audeze Deckard.
I personally haven't tried it but according to the Headphone Bar (a good store in Vancouver that do really great detailed review and hold all headphones to a good value to purchase), they recommend the Element or Deckard for the HE560's, so I don't see why it wouldn't do great for the HE500's too.
 
Sep 27, 2016 at 8:46 AM Post #23 of 37
   
Ehm? Do all Burson amps have 30 ohms output? O_O 
Some people have been saying that the Burson Soloist is exteremly neutral amlifier that would suit my HE-500 (when I can afford it)...

 
The older versions do - the newer versions all have 3ohms now I think. I had the first gen Soloist for review before and it was adding a bass boost to the AKG K701/Q701 vs my Meier Cantate.2, which had really tight but not too loud bass notes on it. Note that the Soloist was not that bad, it's just that if you're going to get something with a relatively high output impedance be aware that there will be some bass boost on some low impedance dynamic drivers, and rely on specific reviews with any given headphone. When you can't, that's when it's best to default with low output impedance.
 
Sep 27, 2016 at 11:24 AM Post #24 of 37
Well, in summary;
1) XDuoo XD-05 has 6.3 mm jack entry
2) It is a bit big, so it is portable but difficult a bit to port i.e. you can not put it in your pocket
3) Output impedance specified as 16 ohm to 300 ohm. So, if you have 600 ohm headphone I do not know how it sound. (I do not have such headphone)
4) It has OPA1612 dual opamp as originally, if you check Texas Instruments page for this opamp, it is already top of the line, but of course Burson is something else. Sound without Burson is OK, so why to change? Just for curiosity, just for to see/hear if Burson realy makes some difference as it is written a lot of review. Burson cost to me as 39 USD for V5i + 15 USD for post.
5) As of today available in Massdrop, also available in GearBest that where I bought
 
Sep 30, 2016 at 10:41 AM Post #25 of 37
I personally think the Magni 2 Uber should have enough power, but I can't exactly guarantee it.

 
I hope it has.
God, so many ways to go and so many chances to make a wrong decision!
 
Well, if you're willing to take a bit of a risk, you could try using the Schiit Valhalla.
They similar to the HD600's in the way that, they're kind of like a holy grail for everything that scales well with everything.
It'd drive Sennheiser's to their absolute maximum potential, yet can drive Audeze's EL-8 series pretty much perfectly as well.
The only thing about it I'm not so sure you'd like is the fact you may have to roll tubes, and maybe even replace them.

 
Despite the fact that I would like to own such pretty tube amp, I am not likely to buy it before I have a proper solid-state.
All that tube rolling is fun, no doubt, but I've never heard a tube amp before. Chances are high that I won't enjoy its sound signature. Plus relatively high output impedance.
It would be much safer for me to go for the Asgard 2, or anything similar to it.
 
Hate to sound fussy, neglecting advice all the time, but the budget is rather limited and I'd hate to buy something I won't enjoy...
 
 Oh and if you ever see a discount, try to get an Audeze Deckard.

 
Yes-yes-yes-yes-yes! I am pretty much in love in this beast - not sure if it's the best I can get in my price range, maybe my sympathy is due to its looks - I can't be sure, but I hope that everything Audeze creates is to be a masterpiece, with no compromise. I am having doubts regarding the discounts on it, hopefully there'll be some discount this black Friday.
 
I would go for the Jotunheim without any hesitation if it was a DAC-based amplifier, rather than an amp-based DAC. Plus the price of the Jotunheim is not making me happy - it would cost £480 for the amp-DAC combo, while Deckard costs just a hundred pounds more. Why Schiit? Why?
 
 
The older versions do - the newer versions all have 3ohms now I think.
Note that the Soloist was not that bad, it's just that if you're going to get something with a relatively high output impedance be aware that there will be some bass boost on some low impedance dynamic drivers, and rely on specific reviews with any given headphone. 

 
Still, I always thought amps that cost as much as Burson, are to have the output impadance value of at least 0.5 ohm (if not 0.1)
I personally wouldn't pay more than $100 for an amp that boosts any frequency range - I can always do that with the EQ if I wish 
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I need an amp to be a transparent glass, that would make me see the scenery outside as if I was outside. Of course, that's too much to ask in such price range.
 
  Well, in summary;
1) XDuoo XD-05 has 6.3 mm jack entry
3) Output impedance specified as 16 ohm to 300 ohm. So, if you have 600 ohm headphone I do not know how it sound. (I do not have such headphone)
4) It has OPA1612 dual opamp as originally, if you check Texas Instruments page for this opamp, it is already top of the line, but of course Burson is something else. Sound without Burson is OK, so why to change? Just for curiosity, just for to see/hear if Burson realy makes some difference as it is written a lot of review. Burson cost to me as 39 USD for V5i + 15 USD for post.
5) As of today available in Massdrop, also available in GearBest that where I bought

 
1) Nice.
3) They probably specify suitable headphone impedance, the XD-05 will be able to drive. I was expecting the lower limit to be around 8 ohm. The 16 ohm makes me wonder if the output impedance is too high for anything not-as-easy-to-drive.
4) Is there any change to the sound you noticed after changing opamps?
5) Massdrop is probably not for me - shipping and VAT makes it, well... unprofitable.
 
The main thing that worries me about XDuoo device, is that it does not seem to be too popular amond the headfiers. Why?
 
Sep 30, 2016 at 1:18 PM Post #27 of 37
I cannot recommend enough the iFi iDSD Micro.  When one considers all it can do, combined with sound quality that rivals anything in its price range, (and honestly is not out of place alongside DAC's that cost up to twice as much) it is a great deal.  
 
If that is too much $$, then the next place I would go is to the iFi iDAC2.  
 
Sep 30, 2016 at 3:34 PM Post #28 of 37
Get a $1 6.3 to 3.5 converter and ready.

 
Nope, thanks. Hate that.
 
  I cannot recommend enough the iFi iDSD Micro.  When one considers all it can do, combined with sound quality that rivals anything in its price range, (and honestly is not out of place alongside DAC's that cost up to twice as much) it is a great deal.

 
MLGrado, do you have any experience with other similarly priced combos/DACs? Would for example the iDSD Micro be on par with similarly-priced Asus Essence One?
I understand this device could be a bargain at its price, but I am suspicious of its small size and portability.
In my opinion, the smaller chassis and power supply restrictions will always limit the performance compared to the models, that do not have those limitations. 
 
If that is too much $$, then the next place I would go is to the iFi iDAC2.  

 
It has only one digital input - USB 
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Sep 30, 2016 at 5:31 PM Post #29 of 37
Get the Schiit Modi Multibit and Jotunheim amp only option, stretches the budget very slightly but have what you are looking for and a 5 year warranty and incredible sound/value!!
 
Sep 30, 2016 at 5:47 PM Post #30 of 37
  Get the Schiit Modi Multibit and Jotunheim amp only option, stretches the budget very slightly but have what you are looking for and a 5 year warranty and incredible sound/value!!

 
franzdom, do you think it's worth paying more, much more, to get the Jotunheim instead of, say, Asgard 2?
 

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