[ADUHF]

Since you are driving these with a phone, I would also pay attention to the impedance and sensitivity/efficiency of the headphones to ensure they are a good match with your source, and deliver adequate volume.

Some folks aren't bothered by the lack of sub-bass on the Senns, for example. But that may be because they're also using them with a more powerful, and higher impedance (tube?) amp, which could deliver a different (and potentially warmer) sound than a cell phone.

EQ is also something that might be worth exploring to get more of the type of tonal balance that you're after.

 

[thekrautdog]

I appreciate the input I'm getting very much.

Yeah when I said upper mids I wasn't meaning in a specific kHz range or overly technical sense, more like I feel like I'm getting too much pressure from the upper register (if that's even the right way to say it) and so I just kind of simply expressed that as treble and upper mids. I think I have it in my head that the senn 6 series being so beloved for midrange (esp hearing that over the years about the 600) might work for me after some time for my own brain burn-in. So after giving my preference for prominent vocals I was wondering if anyone else felt the same about the senns - whichever 6 model, but knowing the Drop model is a good deal - or had anything else in mind that was in the same range of $$. I'm just kind of restating the reason for this thread - I really am glad for the responses I've gotten so thank you, and keep it coming, all added knowledge is very welcome! Like I mentioned I have tried equalizing I'm just not overly fond of needing to do it, and then needing to bounce around with different presets for different headphones (I have a few portables). I am a bit lazy lol. That said if there is specific EQ for say the beyer I could be interested, if it didn't recess the vocals too much and sacrifice too much detail. This maybe just isn't possible (?). I know my source is not ideal atm but even when I had better amping (a bit fuller sound overall, maybe more bass impact) the overall sound profile was pretty similar. The v60 though super powerful for a phone can't drive the hifiman but can drive the beyer very well volume-wise with plenty of headroom even.

 

[Davidzak64]

The 58x is within your budget. It may not be as detailed as the 6xx, but IME, it could be driven very easily from most sources. Driving the 6 series without an amplifier is not ideal. It will leave you wanting more.
+1 here for the Elex, but it's beyond your budget.

 

[ADUHF]

I appreciate the input I'm getting very much.

Yeah when I said upper mids I wasn't meaning in a specific kHz range or overly technical sense, more like I feel like I'm getting too much pressure from the upper register (if that's even the right way to say it) and so I just kind of simply expressed that as treble and upper mids. I think I have it in my head that the senn 6 series being so beloved for midrange (esp hearing that over the years about the 600) might work for me after some time for my own brain burn-in. So after giving my preference for prominent vocals I was wondering if anyone else felt the same about the senns - whichever 6 model, but knowing the Drop model is a good deal - or had anything else in mind that was in the same range of $$. I'm just kind of restating the reason for this thread - I really am glad for the responses I've gotten so thank you, and keep it coming, all added knowledge is very welcome! Like I mentioned I have tried equalizing I'm just not overly fond of needing to do it, and then needing to bounce around with different presets for different headphones (I have a few portables). I am a bit lazy lol. That said if there is specific EQ for say the beyer I could be interested, if it didn't recess the vocals too much and sacrifice too much detail. This maybe just isn't possible (?). I know my source is not ideal atm but even when I had better amping (a bit fuller sound overall, maybe more bass impact) the overall sound profile was pretty similar. The v60 though super powerful for a phone can't drive the hifiman but can drive the beyer very well volume-wise with plenty of headroom even.

Closed headphones are generally easier to EQ. The Amiron Home looks like it might be pretty EQ-able though. I should note that the wired Amiron Home version appears to have a very different and much warmer frequency response than the wireless Amiron though.

The graph of the wired Amiron Home I posted earlier has some recommended PEQ settings...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fjmrgdg3dvi0cqf/Beyerdynamic Amiron Home.pdf?dl=0

My approach to EQ would be a bit different though than Oratory1990 (the author of the graph). Instead of using the Harman curve as my target, I prefer to use the responses of other good headphones as a target with Ora's plots.

One feature that stands out like a sore thumb on Ora's raw graph though is the rather pronounced dip in the AH's mids, between 1 and 2 kHz. So you could probably start by simply trying to lift that region a couple dB.

If you raise the level in that area though, then you'all also want to lower the overall response of the headphones by the same dB level using a preamp adjustment, to ensure that the volume of your audio files is not clipped in that upper midrange.

The bass on the AH also looks noticeably bloated in the 200 Hz range. Lowering that area should reduce some of the headphone's excess warmth and muddiness. And should also improve overall tonal balance a bit. The treble also looks a little bright at around 8 kHz. So that area could probably also come down a bit.

You can also try to extend the sub-bass a bit. But that may not work, because the AH is open, and already pretty bassy for an open-back.

Those are some of the more obvious tweaks I can see, based on Oratory's raw graph above.

 

[thekrautdog]

Just want to update this thread because my Geshelli Archel 2 Pro has come back to life (Idk I must've had something loose in the wiring chain before, or something screwy in my source not recognizing it). ANYWAY that is the amp I will be using. I know already it has plenty of power for my needs, just wondering if there are any opinions on using it with the 6XX or Elex. I decided that with the things I can liquidate I can consider a good deal on a used Elex. After research those are definitely the 2 cans on my shortlist.

 

[Mhog55]

The 58x is within your budget. It may not be as detailed as the 6xx, but IME, it could be driven very easily from most sources. Driving the 6 series without an amplifier is not ideal. It will leave you wanting more.
+1 here for the Elex, but it's beyond your budget.

I'd also recommend the 58X, however you will need to max out the volume on your V60. The V series LG phones can't quite drive this headphone to it's full potential, but it works. Not sure what your budget is, or if you want open or closed, but you really can't go wrong with the Meze 99 Classics or 99 Noir. If you don't mind buying slightly used, I've seen good prices on the Ibasso SR2, which is a fantastic headphone that punches and delivers significantly above it's price.

 

[thekrautdog]

Thank you for the input I appreciate it. I have another equipment update. *sigh* this is all actually kind of embarrassing. My Topping E30 DAC was the first thing I thought had dieda couple years ago, so that went on a shelf. I was then using my V60 into my Geshelli amp, 3.5 to 3.5. Then that stopped working... I thought. It might have been something as stupid as my phone auto connecting to a Bluetooth device and me not knowing. Let me just explain all this by saying my health was not good for awhile. Fast forward a couple years, I retry the phone thru the amp and the amp works. Now I'm motivated to retry the DAC from PC source. Nothing but the very faintest sound coming thru. Almost as an afterthought I decide that instead of doing RCA to RCA I'll do RCA from the DAC to the 3.5 input on the amp and bingo it worked. Google says they have the same sound quality so I'm back in business. All this because the RCA inputs on the amp had fried and I didn't do a diligent diagnosis.

But this is the real revelation. I was able to borrow a Senn/Drop 6xx from my nephew and was very excited to be able to try it out of the Geshelli. I was beyond shocked to find it more fatiguing than my other headphones. I can't even believe it. It has to be my ears/brain. It's just unfortunate that I want to focus on lyrics and impactful mids but at the same time forward mids are apparently fatiguing to me. I actually found the 2 headphones (6xx & Amiron Home) to sound very similar, with the mids of the senn being a little more forward and therefore a little more fatiguing. The only thing I haven't done is again a/b the senn with the Amiron with the E30 back in the chain instead of the v60 because I had to run out the door but IDK how much that will change things. I guess I may have to rethink what I am looking for in a headphone. I went for a long walk the other day with my portapro (I prefer open portables for walking so I can be at least somewhat aware of surroundings) and was thinking I could be happy with a critical listening can that sounded like that but with the increases in detail, separation, and imaging you'd expect from a more expensive quality open circumaural. Many thanks to everyone for reading and paying some attention to my ramblings.

 

[ADUHF]

The 6XX is not just a rebadged HD650 or HD600. And some of the graphs of the 6XX make it look a bit bright in some spots in the treble as well.

Based on your expressed preferences though, I would not have thought that any of the 6 series Senns would be a particularly good fit. At least not without some EQ. Because they are all fairly forward in the mids, and lacking in good bass extension.

I think at least some older audiophiles may gravitate towards headphones like this because they help to fill in some of the gaps in their hearing. Especially around the ear gain region, where some loss is fairly common in older men.

If you still have most of your upper midrange hearing intact though, then these headphones could sound a bit too forward and maybe a little harsh or shouty in that range. I'm just guessin on this though, since I haven't actually listened to any of the Senn 6's in quite some time.

 

[earmonger]

My beloved ATH-R70X may fill your requests. Comfortable, natural,neutral. If you are in the USA or Europe the best prices (and 30-day return) are from Thomann.

 

[sygnus21]

Thank you for the input I appreciate it. I have another equipment update. *sigh* this is all actually kind of embarrassing. ...

Just FY.... But if you like the phones, but want to change the sound character, try changing cables.

I have a pair of Sennheiser HD700 phones, which are known for the clarity but also their brightness. I recently bought a Black Dragon cable for them from Moon Audio who makes them. Suddenly the phones went from overly bright to warm and much more enjoyable.

BTW, Moon has three Cable flavors - Blue, Black, and Silver, each tailored for different sound characteristics. The Black Dragon cables are designed to be warm, intimate, more musical, i.e., less clinical and bright. Vocals are forward and center.

The cables aren't cheap, but the results are real. I posted about them here and did a review over at moon audio - Black Dragon Cables - Believe the hype!

Just another option to consider.

 

[thekrautdog]

Just FY.... But if you like the phones, you have but want to change the sound character, try changing cables.

I have a pair of Sennheiser HD700 phones, which are known for the clarity but also their brightness. I recently bought a Black Dragon cable for them from Moon Audio who makes them. Suddenly the phones went from overly bright to warm and much more enjoyable.

BTW, Moon has three Cable flavors - Blue, Black, and Silver, each tailored for different sound characteristics. The Black Dragon cables are designed to be warm, intimate, more musical, i.e., less clinical and bright. Vocals are forward and center.

The cables aren't cheap, but the results are real. I posted about them here and did a review over at moon audio - Black Dragon Cables - Believe the hype!

Just another option to consider.

I appreciate the input. After spending some time with my old Pioneer SE-A1000 lately I've decided to just use them for now and liquidate the rest. I need the money right now. Honestly I find them just as satisfying as the others (was kind of a revelation for me) so they're gonna fill the role of well enough for now. I must not have golden ears . But I guess I'll count it a blessing lol. Thanks everyone for the help, I learned a lot. The Elex will stay in the back of my mind if I ever get more comfortable.

 

[sygnus21]

That's fine. It's simply a suggestion.

As for insulting.... do realize you're in a hi-fi forum, so if you feel some of the prices listed for components are a bit outrageous, perhaps you should consider where you are? t's like going into a hi-end audio store and asking for improvements to your system only to decry they're asking too much for speaker cables.

Good luck.

 

[thekrautdog]

Thank you.
(I decided to edit my previous post, wasn't necessary for me to say all that.)