[radrd]

Thanks. I really like the sound of my silver interconnects that I already have, so perhaps the AZ Silver Reference will be in my future if and when I decide to upgrade.

 

[Vertigo-1]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl I have no idea what to make of all of that. It sounds like its deliberately not intended to be neutral. It sounds like a dark, bass-heavy cable. Do you think that's a fair characterization based on what you've heard? There are many ways of achieving a sense of "detail". One is to be able to portray subtle shifts in tonal character and volume level. The Virtual Dynamics cables excel at true resolution-- being able to portray the large difference in volume level between soft details and loud details without losing the soft details in the mix or noise floor. Some cables artificially boost low-level data to a similar level of importance as loud main information within a limited dynamic range. This creates an "illusion" of enhanced detail. I'm worried that that's what these ZCables may be doing. Does that make any sense to you? Can you comment? Thank

The Zcables are the farthest thing from dark and heavy. Rather they're more likely to sound lean and bright in certain systems. In general, of the 5 or so pure silver designs I've heard, dark and heavy has never come to mind. The Zcables are silver plated copper.

I preferred the Zcables over much more expensive silver cables because they had superior transient speed without lack of cohesion, and that in turn led to the lack of smearing that I heard in the other cables. The entire presentation comes through so clearly, so cleanly, that it's hard to go back to some of the other cables I heard. Simultaneously I required the cable to not have a lean midrange, which is the fatigue factor for me, and the Live V4 has not had a problem there in my system.

I did not keep the Live V5 however because in tweaking and tuning it to be even faster than the Live V4, I felt the music became too hyper sounding, losing its pace, and therefore the sense of the sound being too detailed. The V4 for me is the sweet spot...a perfect amount of pace and speed. Again, if you can find a used V4, I'd leap on it if I were you, just to try it if anything.

Anyways, a little extra blurb on the smearing. Mark Hampton of Zcables believes that the overbuilt, heavily shielded cables typically made in the audiophile world actually results in overdampening of the sound, leading to the smear. The Live cables are themselves very, very lightweight, due to the lack of overdone shielding as it were. True, or not true? I don't know. I'm only mentioning it because maybe the guy's got a point, as far as my ears have heard.


I have to wholeheartedly agree with the point DarkAngel made in regards to what you listen for in a cable. Be particularly careful of a cable that has high detail resolution as its first wow effect. Such cables do not necessarily make music. Assuming how a cable will sound beforehand hasn't worked very well for me either. You gotta just spend the dough to put it into your own system to see how it interacts.

 

[markl]

radrd, dd3mon,
Thanks for the suggestion. I haven't heard any of the cardas cables or the Neutral Reference, but I am aware of it. here are my thoughts/impressions on Cardas which may have no bearing in reality, but you have to narrow the field somehow, and these are my reasons right or wrong:

Big cable makers seem to me to be a safe bet in that many people agree that the designer has some sense of what he is doing, rewarding him with a large-ish business that requires marketing, distribution, employees, office space and on and on. OTOH, Value per dollar spent goes down because you have to pay for all that overhead when you buy the cable of an established brand that can charge full price. I think there are *probably* better values out there if you are willing to gamble on the large field of upstarts. I don't know, it's all good fun to me.

Also, when a cable maker has the cajones to declare a cable a "neutral reference", my *suspicion* (based on nothing) is that he feels he has succeeded in designing a cable in which there is absolutely no life whatsoever, nothing that could risk "offending" even the most "sensitive" audiophile who will be sitting there scrutinizing and looking for any signs of life to discredit this so-called "neutral reference" cable.

I think there are two ways to define "neutral". There's doing what I described above which is to create a cable that acts as a filter-- albeit a very nice, pleasant, carefully voiced filter that stands in the signal path as a sort of "traffic cop" on the electrical signal keeping it in an artificially harmonious stream instead of the chaotic, random, impulsive thing that music is. I guess this could be summed up as "immediacy". I listen to rock/pop so that matters to me.

In short, I don't want my *cables* determining the sound of my system. I want my CDP to sound like my CDP, my amp to sound like my amp, and my headphones to sound like my headphones, I spent a long time finding them.

I like the other idea of "neutral" which is the sense that there is no filter whatsoever on the music, *virtually* unrestrained momentum. I say "virtually" because I think the Voodoo crosses the line in this area with a certain frequency range, deviating from "neutral" in that regard.

I have no idea what the Neutral Reference sounds like, but my gut tells me its bland. Besides--look at the jacket and sleeve color scheme they chose for the Neutral Reference-- it's alerting you that "I am a deliberately designed bland cable, I make plain vanilla sound".

So yes, it's a frustrating, fascinating and fun quest. But I have faith, I know that what I'm looking for is out there somewhere, it's just a matter of trial and error.

DA,
Thanks I will look into the AZ Silver Refernce. But I'm worried about bass response with silver cables. How is bass vs. the awesome VD stuff?

Vert,
Thanks for the info. Hmmmmm... me no likey "lean and bright". I can tolerate "brightness" so long as its not accompanies by "leanness". The Voodoo cable is good example, very "bright" but not lean.


AAAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHH!!!! Cable shopping is so hard. So many possibilities, so many different systems with different interactions, making it so hard to know how it will sound in your rig....

Mark

 

[LKK]

I enjoyed your review very much markl, thank you.
I have just found another small cable company TMC. It seems very interesting. They have this different concept from others.

http://www.the-music-cable.com/whitelab.asp

I think the only thing I am worry about it's the bass respones.
What do you think? Will it worth a try?

 

[scottpaul_iu]

Markl,

Thanks for the interesting post. I appreciate you sharing the info with us.

To go OT for a second. Man, you are spot on about the Ray Samuel's Emmeline Amp. Heard it at the Detroit meet. Very impressive sound and build quality.

 

[Gallaine]

Quote:

Originally posted by LKK I enjoyed your review very much markl, thank you. I have just found another small cable company TMC. It seems very interesting. They have this different concept from others. http://www.the-music-cable.com/whitelab.asp I think the only thing I am worry about it's the bass respones. What do you think? Will it worth a try?

I owned the TMC Yellow interconnect a couple of years ago. In my system I thought the bass was far too pronounced. It is also a very stiff cable - though once you bend it it will hold its shape. I ended up returning it.

 

[pigmode]

I've enjoyed the better qualities of silver for a while, but for the most part have settled on copper. I tend to lean toward the fuller and sweeter tonal presentation of copper, and find it more desirable than the slant toward speed and attack of silver.

Tonality is foremost, and the individual components of my system are all a reflection of this.

 

[LKK]

Quote:

Originally posted by Gallaine I owned the TMC Yellow interconnect a couple of years ago. In my system I thought the bass was far too pronounced. It is also a very stiff cable - though once you bend it it will hold its shape. I ended up returning it.

Thank you Gallaine, it's nice meet someone with experience in these cables.
Could you please describe more about these TMC ICs? "The bass was far too pronounced", does this mean it doesn't control the bass very well? Was the bass tight and punchy?
Thank you.

 

[Gallaine]

Since it has been about 2 years since I auditioned these cables I need to find my notes. If I remember correctly the bass was extended and tight but it seemed far too loud compared to the rest of the music. For example, the volume of the string bass seemed out of proportion with the rest of the orchestra.

 

[markl]

Yesterday, a local friend brought over a pair of upscale MIT cables, I forget the model, but he said they were in the $500-$600 area, and not of recent vintage, but he likes them. These did not do it for me in my rig either, they were good and even and very mellow and relaxed. Not bad for what it was, but again, not the sound I am looking for. BTW: he really liked the Voodoo Cable as well when I swapped them back in after removing the MITs. He said they were "bright" though, but he liked the effect.

Anyway after giving this a lot of thought and after after my recent cable rolling experiences documented here, I have decided that it's silly to expect other cables to sound like Virtual Dynamics cables. If the VD stuff just sounds "right" to me, why fight it and waste more time auditioning this and that cable. It's a lot of fuss with burn-in, critical listening, A/B swapping and back and forth. My musical enjoyment has gone down in the process because I'm not really listening to the music, but the cables and *evaluating*.

I was on the verge of purchasing one of those amazingly sexy Acoustic Zen cables that DA reco'ed last night and then thought about having to break it in and evaluate yet another cable, I decided to call a halt to this quest, and just do what I was going to do originally and get the frickin' VD Nite cables and be done with it.

I was hoping to find a cheaper and better alternative, and I have no doubt that ultimately I could, but how much time/money am I really willing to invest to find it? I was gonna try 1 or maybe 2 other cables and write up the results here, but I was able to negotiate a *sweet* deal on a used pair of Nites from a friend. So, long story short, I think I'm gonna call a halt to it early, sorry.

I do want to thank everyone for their suggestions.

Hope what I had so far was of interest. I would say the Voodoo cables are well worth further investigation, a great cable *for the money*. Look for my pair up for sale in the classifieds here in a few weeks.

When the Nite's come I'll post an update to this thread if anyone still wants to read yet ANOTHER post on how amazing the Nites are.... yawn...

Mark

 

[Gallaine]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl ...If the VD stuff just sounds "right" to me, why fight it and waste more time auditioning this and that cable... Mark

That is an enviable position to be in - finding something that you are ultimately happy with! Hopefully I'll get there soon myself; it looks like I'll be able to get the RKV (cross my fingers

).

 

[dhwilkin]

Quote:

markl said... Hope what I had so far was of interest.

Thoughts on new equipment should always be appreciated here.

 

[Randu]

Signal Cable.com

Found this one on Audiogon also, anyone know how these cables are?