[markl]

Now that I have narrowed my system down to the basic components I'll be keeping for a while (read 6-12 months

), I've embarked on a new round of interconnect swapping. My ever-evolving system now consists of this:

Source: Kenwood Sovereign DV-5700 DVD-A player with Faroudja chip set (don't knock it till you've tried it

)

Amp: Ray Samuels Audio Emmeline HR-2 with Virtual Dynamics Power 2 power cord. See here for my review: http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...light=emmeline

Headphones: Sony MDR-R10 headphones. http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...&threadid=5008

My current ICs are Virtual Dynamics Reference cables (retail $600, much cheaper on Audiogon), older version without their new-ish Speed of Light technology. The VD Reference cable is a fantastic cable and anyone who's been here long enough knows that I'm batty about the VD gear, particularly their power cords. Overall, I find all the VD cables have a signature house sound, but I found the power cords to be even more effective in my system than their ICs, at least the one I've owned, the Reference. For a comprehensive overview of the various VD products from many members, see here: http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...rtual+dynamics

I was going to see if I could find some of the newer VD Signature cables with SOL to show up on Audiogon, but waited in vain (can't quite justify the Nites I'm afraid). In the meantime I became more and more aware of other very small cable companies whose businesses seem largely centered on selling through Audiogon. As I'm sure you know, there are literally hundreds of cable makers out there nowadays, and each one has their own unique twist and slant on how a cable should be constructed.

The good thing about these many small cable makers just starting out is that all are forced to give away their products for nearly nothing early on until their reputations are established. Hence, you will see brand new "$500 cables" selling for $200 through the auction section of the cable marketplace: http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/fsb.pl?cablintr
You can also purchase directly from these manufacturers at prices far below what they list on their site. Many do not even have any real dealers for the product lines yet. Overhead is low, in theory cable value per dollar should be high. Construction on all these obscure cables has been in my experience quite good-- leaps and bounds ahead of the appalling sloppy build quality of the better Monster cables for example. Open up one of those Monster connectors and look at the shoddy solderings, then marvel as the cheap connectors come apart in your hands after very little use, blah, blah. Anyway, while many of these audiogon small-time cables may look somewhat quaint and homey, they've been hand-made by an audio geek just like you, not some poor child in a third world country chained to the Monster Cable workbench (well, that's what I picture when I look at their "workmanship" anyway

)

The bad thing is that they are largely untested, unproven and unknown quantity outside of a few 10 word blurbs in the Audiogon Feedback, or the occasional mention over audioasylum. No big print reviews, no general consensus on what their basic sound is, etc. So, it's a gamble, but it can be fun too. If the cable doesn't work out, many of these manufacturers have a 30-day policy, or you can fairly easily re-sell them on audiogon and recoup most of your expense.

Anyway, on audiogon I came across Ridge Street Audio with their Reference Mark 2 silver interconnect:

I was mainly intrigued by the fact that he uses single grain silver (like the Harmonic Technology copper cables) of obviously high purity along with solid core conductors. Furthermore, despite the WBTs in the photo, the RSA Reference 2 comes with the weird Eichmann Bullet Plugs, reputed to be among the best connectors on the market, but with a very eccentric design. Take a look:

The RSA Reference is available exclusively from the owner/proprietor, Robert Schult, who couldn't be nicer or better to deal with, great service. Check with Robert for direct pricing (retail is $350 for a one meter pair), he has a 30-day policy.

Due to the incredible light weight of the RSA's silver conductors, the air dialectric, and the nearly weightless Bullet plugs, these cables could blow away in a stiff breeze. They are the antithesis of the bulky and heavy VD Reference with it's incredibly thick-gauge copper cable and heavy shielding material (you know the "magic pixie dust"

)

Overall, I found the RSA Reference 2 to be the yin to the VD Reference's yang (or is it vice-versa?). The RSA Reference 2 is is a lovely cable with a very balanced sound that is incredibly delicate and ornate, the opposite of in-your-face. This is a very appealing cable in the right system, but mine is not that system and my goals are different. Here is what I said to Robert when I returned his classy, elegant cable:

"I'm afraid RSA Reference is a case of "pearls before swine", me being the swine. I can see that a great deal of time went into the voicing of your cable, the frequency spectrum and presentation is very coherent, even, and neutral. The sound is very refined, pristine, clean and delicate with a slightly sweet top-end. This cable is for a different kind of listener than me. I can see this being a great cable for listeners of classical music. For me, a listener to pop/rock the cable errs too far on the polite side for my needs in my system, but I can clearly hear that this is a quality cable for the right person/system and I'm glad I got to hear it.

I really appreciate all the effort you made on my behalf, and now I must disappoint you by returning your fine cable."

The RSA cable was amazingly mellow for a silver cable, reminding me of the Stealth Audio FineLine Reference I once owned. It's been too long for me to directly compare the two, but I would say they were very comparable in quality and sonics. Stealth is another one of the Audiogon cable company's that auctions their cables there. Last night I saw a pair of Stealth M-7 ICs, their $700 model with a minimum bid of only $200 that I almost bought (no one even bid!). More info on the RSA Reference 2 can be found here: http://home.attbi.com/~ridgestreetaudio/REF.MkII.html

Anyway, after I returned the RSA Reference 2, I came across Voodoo Cable and their Voodoo Reference copper cable (I know, I know too many "Reference" cables, I'm losing track, too

). I was intrigued by two things: the audacity and brazenness of their name

, and the fact that like Virtual Dynamics they use cryo treatment on all their cables and their connectors. Voodoo also seems to believe in the use of shielding, and this cable has two separate shields, a teflon dialectric, suspended in air along with an "active" silver shield suspended also in air and finally surrounded by a jacket and a clear casing material. The Voodoo Reference retails for $250, check Audiogon for auctions/sales. Here's a pic (AAAARGH I give up, here's a tease like MacDEF's robot):

The Voodoo Reference is a very powerful-sounding cable that is certainly not "dark". It's a lot like the VD Reference cable in terms of sound, actually-- very direct, present, clear, and fast. But the VD Reference still has the edge in terms of bass response and soundstaging, and is overall a bit "cleaner" sounding than the Voodoo reference. Still, I'd say that the Voodoo Reference at $250 retail competes very nicely indeed with the VD Reference which retails for $600. To my ears in my system, this is not that big of a difference, certainly not $350 worth. Keep a look out for these Voodoo cables if you're an adventurous sort-- you can get a great deal on a great cable at Audiogon. For more info on Voodoo, visit here: http://www.voodoopowercords.com/VRSI.htm

So, I still haven't found the successor to my Virtual Dynamics Reference, but I'm thinking of doing one final cable roll before looking again at a VD Nite.

Right now, I'm very curious about the Voodoo Silver Reference, the next step up from the Reference I have now ($350 retail), PS Audio Statement IC ($400 retail big fat heavy copper cable like the VD stuff, but dead sexy

), and the Zu Cable Varial ($500 retail) which I often see in the auction section. Anyone have experience with any of these or any recomendations in the $150-$200 range (used price or auction price on audiogon). I like a bargain, so I'm not opposed to trying out the obscure and the unknown, so long as I get sweet deal

.

I like an open and direct sound, as if the cable is not there-- I don't like being held back at a distance, or being spoon-fed an inoffensive sound and viewing the world through rose-colored glasses. I'm not afraid of cables called "ruthlessly revealing". If it was recorded, I want to hear it. And I don't cotton to no weak bass, neither!

Ideas? Feedback?

Mark

 

[Gallaine]

Nice review. I didn't realize that Voodoo was selling interconnects. I saw the ads for their PCs a while back but lost track of them.

I like my HGA Silver Lace but lately I've been thinking that they are a tad thin sometimes (Of course it could just be that I am restless and need to be constantly on the look-out for something better). I might have to try the Voodoo Silver Reference. Heck, I might even try the VD cables

(though that would completely break my rule of not spending more than 15-20% of total system cost on cables). If nothing else I'll at least get an idea of how other cables sound in my system.

 

[markl]

Gallaine, the Voodoo Reference (copper) is by far the most energetic cable I've heard, even more so than the VD stuff. I hesitate to call it "bright" because of the negative connotations of that word; I'm not really sure how to characterize what I'm hearing. But there's something about the force with which upper mids/treble is delivered and how vibrant the sound is that gives it this incredible upper half of the sonic spectrum. As far as the cables I've heard are concerned, this one has the most amazing open top-end. I also noticed that the Voodoo Reference revealed a *miniscule* buzz coming from my source that no other cable I've owned was quiet or revealing enough to make me aware of. I think this is a fantastic cable for the price, and I may end up sticking with it for a while.

I e-mailed the owner/designer of the Voodoo cables, Bruce Richardson, to ask about how the Voodoo Silver Reference compares to the regular copper Reference. I told him that I'm not into silver for silver's sake and have found some of the silver cables I've owned to be bass shy and undynamic, and surprisingly gauzy in a couple cases (Ridge Street and Stealth). I'm still not 100% happy with the Reference's bass performance, it's excellent, but does not compare to the Virtual Dynamics Reference. If I didn't have the VD to compare to, I bet I'd be very happy with the Voodoo's bass response, but I'm spoiled.

I understand that a lot of people like the laid-back, spoon-fed sound, because it is a recognizable sound character and I think people feel "ah, the cable is doing something I can hear, so it must be good". But to me that means the cable is acting as a filter on the sound, imposing its will and not acting as an invisible soundless connection between components. To me, given that cables are a passive component, I feel that cables can only make "errors of ommission" rather than "sins of commission". That is, I don't believe a cable can add any information or coloration per se, merely omit certain information from passing through, giving it its apparent sonic character. This can result in different emphasis on different parts of the frequency spectrum as some is coming through loud and clear, some is being withheld. A cable's sound can be defined almost as much by what it's not telling you vs. what it is telling you. That's my theory and working assumption anyway.

Anyway, I wasn't in need of a silver cable for the sake of having a silver cable, and I wondered if the Voodoo Silver was essentially the same product as the copper Reference but for people who insist on silver. I asked him if it really represented a step up in the product line or a lateral move. Bruce's reply basically said that he agreed with my characterization of some silver cables, but said his Silver Reference is nothing like that and is in fact MORE dynamic than the copper Voodoo Reference I'm using now! He said he felt the Silver Reference was best when used in combination with regular copper Reference in the signal path to provide balance, that he didn't think the Silver was necessarily a replacement for the copper version to be used by itself.

Anyway, I can't imagine a cable with even more energy than the Voodoo Reference, so I imagine the Silver must be off the charts altogether. Maybe a "love it or hate it" kind of cable, totally ruthless and revealing. In any case it doesn't sound like a replacement/upgrade for the regular copper Reference.

Mark

 

[Gallaine]

That is an interesting reply from Bruce. I wonder if that "energy" would open up a laidback combo like my 580/Cardas/MG Head. There is a Silver Reference for sale on Audiogon right now and the price isn't too high...yet...

Well, if I don't end up selling my MG Head (I'm going for an RKV

) I think I'll try both the Voodoo Reference and Silver Reference. I hope that the increased "energy" that Bruce spoke of in the Silver Reference doesn't translate into sibilance as that is one thing I can't tolerate in a system.

 

[markl]

I don't think a cable can "add" sibilance, but I do believe that it can reveal it more clearly if it's on the recording or coming from the source.

Yes, I think the copper Reference would make a GREAT cable for system with an HD600 (veil lifting), and should also complement the RKV very nicely, given its reputation for rolled off highs. If any cable can help preserve the highs with the RKV its the Voodoo Reference. Let us know if you decide to get one or both of these cables, I'd love to know your thoughts. Cheers.

Mark

 

[radrd]

Hi Markl,

Have you ever heard the Pure Siler Sound Quartet?
http://puresilversound.bizland.com/

Somehow they manage to have a 4.95/5.00 rating with 39 reviews on Audioreview (not the best source I realize

).

I happened to get a demo model (locking not Eichmann plugs) that they sold on Audiogon for a bit of a discount, and in my humble system I was quite impressed. Granted, my only comparison is my Outlaw PCA, but nonetheless, I like the interconnect a lot.

They don't seem to offer a 30-day guarantee, but I also very rarely see one on Audiogon, which makes me think that the Quartet might actually have a lot going for it. You could probably sell it pretty easily I'm guessing.

I would be interested in hearing your views on it, as I am considering upgrading, and if you don't like the PSS Quartet, then I will have an excuse to try something new like VD or Cardas.

Edit: Just noticed one in the classifieds that went up yesterday, but there is a sale pending already. That's the first one that I've seen in at least a month.

 

[Vertigo-1]

The Varial isn't bad for its price. I found it a little smeared in imaging and lacking extension compared to more expensive silver cables though.

You might want to also consider the Cardas Neutral Reference which is in that price range.

If you really want ruthlessly revealing, save up for a pair of Zcable Live V5s. Even though I consider myself a detail oriented listener, I ended up returning them, because there really can be such a thing as too much details.

 

[markl]

radrd,
Thanks for the suggestion. I looked over the site for Pure Silver. Looks interesting, typical boutique cable shop. From what I read, they like the very thin wire, 28 guage. Stealth cables is also like this (their cables actually get *thinner* as the price goes up), so is Ridge Street to a lesser degree (they use 22 guage wire).

I've tried maybe 12-15 different brands of audio cables so far. So far, perhaps coinicdentally, who knows, I've had the best luck with the bigger, fatter cables. FWIW, I also seem to prefer solid-core conductors, there are a lot of cables out there that are stranded, flat, or hollow, that interest me less. I really don't have enough experience with enough cables to draw any general conclusiuons like that, but in choosing cables, these are the factors I'm using to help narrow the field.

Vert,
Those Z-cables look very interesting indeed, right up my alley. I see they are clearing out all their older models to make way for the V5. It looks like the V5 wipes the floor with their older stuff, even they say so straight up. Right now I can't afford a new V5, but it's on my list, I'll be looking for a used pair.

Mark

 

[Vertigo-1]

The Live V4 goes used within your price range, which is what I ultimately decided to settle on as my IC after 6 months of auditioning. Good luck waiting on a used Live V5, I've seen Live V4s go used, mostly because the owner is upgrading to the V5. I've yet to see a used Live V5. Maybe if a Live V6 comes out.

 

[markl]

Vert,
After looking that ZCable site over more it seems they do weird things to tune the cable to emphasize a certain frequency response:
Quote:

# Few companies have employed the proper signal to return ratios to "tune" the cable to its function and tonal correctness.

Quote:

Question: My system sounds too bright and harsh. What changes do you recommend? Answer: A bright and harsh sound can be caused by numerous factors - transports, DACs, preamps, amps, or speakers, as well as cabling. Having said that, very often the problem is caused by the cabling. All of the "high end" line of ZCable - the DIGITAL DUET digital cable, the LIVE v4 interconnect, and the PASSION v3 speaker cable, should not cause audio systems to sound bright or harsh. As a matter of fact, the focus of the ZCable design objective is to insure that all of our cables render a full bodied sound. Many cables currently on the market have very low capacitance and small conductor paths. This combination spells "bright". It is important to have enough conductor to support mid and low frequencies, while maintaining the detail of the high frequencies. It is also important to reduce the dielectric enough to reduce "glare" and "edginess". Even in the ZCable valued priced cables, the Optimization process ZCable employs "Stretches" the tonal range of the cable, and allows the cable to render musical frequency spectrums well outside the norm for value priced cables. Meaning these value priced cables can give more mid-range and bass that is normal for cables within this price range. ZCables do not make a system bright or harsh. So, if your system maintains that tonal characteristic with the inclusion of ZCables, then we would need to look elsewhere for the cause. We should make a distinction here between sounding "bright", and sounding "thin". With a "bright" system the high frequencies are exaggerated. With a "thin" system the total tonal spectrum sounds anemic. With a "thin" sounding system, you should look to better power cords, and/or a larger wattage amp. With a "bright" system, if you have eliminated the cables as the cause, look to the transport/player, or to the DACs. Several DACs in use more than 2 years ago had a tendency to have a "bite" or "edge", most frequently in the tonal range of piano music.

Quote:

Often, when customers are ready to replace their main speakers, or ready to buy a subwoofer; we suggest they try a ZCable DIGITAL DUET, or the ZCable speaker cables - PASSION v3. Every time someone tries one or both of these cables in their system they experience increases in the bass area. The advantages of the ZCable solution to bass, is that not only do you get more bass, but you also get better, tighter, and faster bass. The ZCable LIVE interconnects also enhance the bass performance. But the largest boost to bass usually comes from the DIGITAL DUET, or the ZCable Passion v3 speaker cable. Remember, with the ZCable you not only get more bass, but you also get better, tighter, and faster bass. This is very important. Frequently, the ability of the audio system to involve and impress the listener comes as much from the quality as the quantity of the bass. Many subwoofers focus on quantity, rather than quality of the bass experience. This is not to say that subwoofers don't have their place. But when put WITH main speakers that are properly performing, the subwoofer's true job of supplementing the bass is performed more convincingly.

Quote:

Question: Do you think that all audio systems would benefit from the addition of ZCable audio cables? Answer: No. No two audio systems are the same. Much of the challenge of assembling an excellent audio system is the compatibility of all components and cables. ZCable has worked very hard to create cables that bring a unique enhancement potential to any audio system. Whether every system is compatible with that enhancement, we cannot say. Some audio systems, due to excessive "brightness" may sound better with cables that "roll off" the high frequencies. Other systems may sound a little "tubby" and need cables that extenuate the high frequencies. One of the reasons we suggest the ZCable cable be first introduced towards the front of the audio system, is to maximize the likelihood the system will be able to demonstrate the ZCable potential. That potential is a tonally balanced, full bodied, dynamic sound.

I have no idea what to make of all of that. It sounds like its deliberately not intended to be neutral. It sounds like a dark, bass-heavy cable. Do you think that's a fair characterization based on what you've heard?

There are many ways of achieving a sense of "detail". One is to be able to portray subtle shifts in tonal character and volume level. The Virtual Dynamics cables excel at true resolution-- being able to portray the large difference in volume level between soft details and loud details without losing the soft details in the mix or noise floor. Some cables artificially boost low-level data to a similar level of importance as loud main information within a limited dynamic range. This creates an "illusion" of enhanced detail. I'm worried that that's what these ZCables may be doing. Does that make any sense to you? Can you comment? Thanks.

For example, one of the Achilles heels of the Voodoo Reference I'm currently auditioning is my feeling that it's boosting low-level info up to the forefront out of proportion with how it is meant to be portrayed. I don't think the Voodoo is as adept at portraying subtle shifts in volume as the Virtual Dynamics cables, but I haven't heard any other cable that can.

Here are some more thoughts on the Voodoo Reference. It has so much "presence" within the upper mid-range, lower treble, that it has a tendency to get slightly "hard" within those frequency ranges in my sytem. It's like within that window in the frequency spectrum, the cable is allowing so much of the signal from my source to come through that it sounds almost "hot". Not necessarily piercing or painful, but more like blunt like its trying to push the R10s farther than they are 100% comfortable going only within those frequencies. The energy of the cable can just overwhelm certain recordings I'm finding. This is most apparent in male vocals which sound a bit "hard" is the only word I can think to use. "Over-present" if you will.

This Voodoo cable is the weirdest cable I've ever heard. Words fail, but I don't find it to be a completely "neutral" cable, but not in the typical sense that we define "neutrality". It behaves almost like an active component in the signal path rather than a passive electrical conductor which is what it is. I keep going back and forth about how I feel about this cable. Is this cable "right" where all the others were "wrong"? I'm very skeptical. The Voodoo also has a *slightly* "weird" twist to its flavor and tonality that is so subtle it's hard to identify.

But I can say that when the Voodoo locks in with a recording the result can be scary. last night I was listening to the Ludwig re-mastered Nirvana compilation, and it never sounded better. Kurt's guitar had to be heard to be believed. The Voodoo cables LOVE the electric guitar. If you LOVE the electric guitar, seek this cable out, it somehow zeroes onto any electric guitar in a recording and brings it to the fore-- it's so powerful and crunchy and electric through my Emmeline HR-2 that it left me in DISBELIEF it was so REAL. Wow!

But I keep telling myself this presentation just can't be natural but I'm at a loss to explain how a cable swap could do what I'm hearing, especially a $250 cable. It sounds like a component swap more than a cable swap.

I've only had the Voodoo cables for less than a week, but they have been burned in for a while (they have a 48 hour burn in according to manufacturer). I don't think this is the "ultimate" cable, it's not "perfect" but at $250 retail (much cheaper at Audiogon) I think it's a very good value indeed, given my limited cable rolling experience (12-15 brands or so).

Mark

 

[radrd]

Thanks for the continuing comments markl, have you ever heard any of the high end Cardas cables? I would be interested in your take on them compared to VD.

 

[DarkAngel]

A while ago I had VD Signature IC, and in my system AZ Silver Reference came out the preferred winner pretty easily for me. I do 90% of my listening with full size 2ch stereo and the AZ SR has very natural yet detailed sound with huge soundstage development. This quality may be hard to fully appreciate/detect if you are primarily interested in headphone use.

I have tried many silver ICs, including some that seem to offer slightly more detail, but suffer when it comes to refined sound and overall natural musical presentation. You can get these pretty easily used at Audiogon and sell no problem if you wish......mine is going nowhere.

Many audiophiles at Audiogon with big megabuck systems that can afford any IC available still prefer and use AZ SR because of the reasons above.

BTW.....there is no "best" IC, it is expensive and frustrating to search for it, also often when you are very carefully analyzing the sound of a cable you may trick yourself into preferring a cable which is really not musical or enjoyable to listen to in the long run, you trick yourself into being a "detail freak"

 

[radrd]

DA, Have you heard the Silver Reference II?

 

[dd3mon]

Quote:

Originally posted by radrd Thanks for the continuing comments markl, have you ever heard any of the high end Cardas cables? I would be interested in your take on them compared to VD.

Ya something like Cardas Neutral Reference sounds right up your alley...

-dd3mon

 

[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally posted by radrd DA, Have you heard the Silver Reference II?

No, but may sound even better SR I. It will cost more used, but the fact that there is a SR II makes the price of used SR I even more affordable.

I also haven't seen any printed reviews yet that compares the SR II to SR I