[NelsonVandal]

I've always thougt AD823 sounds horrendous, and I've only listened to it for a couple of minutes at a time, before my ears start to bleed. Then I read the rave reviews of the Voyager and Solo, and I thought I should give them some more burning in. I think they have about 100 hours now. I've used them in different topologies, but at the moment they're used in a 9V portable with output buffers and active ground. The buffers are LISAIII-clones but with MJE243/253 as output transistors and higher biased than in LISA. The buffers are very neutral. I use AD823 both in ground and L/R positions. I've tried class-A biasing.

Whatever I do with them they sound very very colored in the upper mid, harsh, "overdetailed" like a caricature of the real thing. I can't stand this anymore, I'm giving up on them once and for all. Soundstage, PRAT, slam etc are good.

You who like AD823, what have you done to make it sound good, or do you like this coloration?

 

[TzeYang]

Truth: He doesnt liek the AD8397 ;D

 

[NelsonVandal]

You're right I'm not too fond of AD8397 either, but I like it better than AD823. I think an amp that doesn't sound like wire with gain, is a bad amp. Coloration can be cool for a while, but in the end it will always give you listening fatigue.

 

[majkel]

Even wires ain't transparent.

However it is real to build from those imperfect elements a system giving impression of live music.
Regardind AD823 - alone it's a crap, something around OPA2134 class but I've listened to Graham Slee Solo and I don't actually remember any resemblance to the AD823's sound signature. Probably it's due to high supply voltage and specific buffering. On the other hand, I cannot tell anything descriptive about the amp itself because there were DT990 - 2005's hooked up to the amp and I hardly tolerate the sound of the DT990 '05's.

 

[mrarroyo]

I have listened to the AD823 in four amps:

- Green Solo
- Voyager High Gain
- Voyager Low Gain
- iBasso D1

In the first 3 examples above it sounds very good. However I believe it needs massive amounts of burn in. Well above 400 hours.

In the iBasso it did not sound as bad as I have read here. However I have rolled other op-amps which I liked better in the iBasso.

At the end of the day a lot has to do w/ the designer's implementation and synergy w/ your gear.

 

[aych]

Im not a big fan of the AD823 eithier. It came with the C&C XO. I find it lacks detail and the bass is slightly weak.

 

[d-cee]

it sounds good in the Heed Canamp

oh, and depending on on the configuration it was ok in the Zhaolu D2.0's outputs too

 

[NelsonVandal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Probably it's due to high supply voltage and specific buffering.

I have used it with 24 V supply - still the same. I have used it buffered - the same. I have used it buffered at 24 V supply - you guessed it - the same.

Graham Slee must be a magician. There must be some serious error in his amps to error out the nastiness of the AD823. Looking at the Solos spec's: output impedance 120 Ohms, or the Voyagers spec's: Stereo Crosstalk: -52dB, THD+noise 0.03% it seems that he uses unconventional techniques to make them sound good.

Compare this to Mini3 for instance: output impedance 0.1 Ohm, THD 0.0011%, IMD+noise 0.0064%, crosstalk -90.4 dB.

I wish mr Slee would share his knowledge with us

.

 

[NelsonVandal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colt /img/forum/go_quote.gif You have a pretty gigantic idiosyncrasy with the poor 823 there.

Yes, it's a crusade

. I'm expecting to get banned for it. It's unbelievable to me that people care about things that alter the sound a mm (if anything at all) like jacks, cables, power caps etc, when an opamp like AD823 alters the sound a mile.

 

[LawnGnome]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colt /img/forum/go_quote.gif I disagree. Just this morning I changed interconnect in my modest stereo, going from a swiss-made Gotham GAC-1 coaxial cable to a german-made Sommercable Classique coaxial cable (note - polyethylene insulated copper in both cases) and the difference was unexpectedly unsettling. The overall change was dramatic, quite a bit more so than what I recall being the difference between AD823 and OPA2227/2134. It drasticly changed the system's balance, tonality, and expressiveness (not for the better or for worse - just a lot different, with different strengths). Apparently, different cables (even with such a similar geometry and materials) introduce more alterations in the audio path than different opamps (with their high feedback and resulting low distortion) -- this is not difficult for me to digest.

This isn't a cable thread. Please don't make it one.

Also, apparently you are incorrect. As you can VERY easily measure the the change different opamps make. As i have done it myself rolling my x-fi's opamps. However, I cannot measure the slightest difference between a old mini to mini that came with a old IBM monitor, and a mini to mini I made using solid core cryo-treated cotton insulated copper, I even used silver solder on it. (which I built to test this)

 

[NelsonVandal]

Yes, how could possibly linear distortion in a cable color the sound more than nonlinear distortion in semi-conductors? And by measure probably by a magnitude of a zillion more.

I just say this: ABX or blind test. The most dreaded words for a cable enthusiast.

 

[TzeYang]

c'mon, why should we even be bothering about the cable worshippers? They spent tons of money and it makes them happy! So why not??

(on the other hand, it makes me and my wallet happy because i don't believe in cable happiness). Win win i'd say.

 

[mrarroyo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NelsonVandal /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... output impedance 120 Ohms...

I believe in the EU there is a new standard calling for 120 Ohms on the headphone output: International standard on audio interfaces, IEC 61938 (formerly IEC268- 15) calls for an intermediate-impedance source of 120 ohms.

 

[NelsonVandal]

OK, I'm going to start some cable rolling, preferably blind testing them. I have no intention trying expensive esoteric ones yet. Right now I use braided tefon insulated SPC by Habia both from source to amp and from amp to headphones. I like to think it sounds better than the original Sennheiser and no-name signal cable. I imagine the sound being brighter and more detailed.

There should be large double blind ABX tests to find out the effects of different tweaks once and for all. For instance. I can't for my life hear the difference of power caps in a 3 ch amp. I think it's just like alternative medicine - it's in the producers/sellers interest not to do these kind of trials. They want people to live in uncertainty, because the majoroty of the products are either without effect or dangerous.

What about pot rolling, perfboard rolling and resistor rolling

? Distortion in resistors is said to be measurable.

 

[NelsonVandal]

OK, I'll start looking for some decent and cheap copper then.

Words never killed anyone, did it

.? Oh yes it did, you should know, the "gods" kill loudmouths like us. I'm just waiting for it

. I can't understand why they always bash at you.

I'm sorry for being harsh sometimes, I just like being this way, can't help myself.