[watchnerd]

 
 
What they are doing with filtering is a separate issue.  Even when they unfold into some very high sample rates they actually are only going for 30 khz response though supposedly with filtering that has very little time blur (their marketing words). 

 
Best impulse response = minimum phase filter = very little ringing / pre-echo, but lots of ultrasonics.
 
I don't see how they're going to get round the iron laws of sinc and Fourier pairs.

 

[ralphp@optonline]

   
Best impulse response = minimum phase filter = very little ringing / pre-echo, but lots of ultrasonics.
 
I don't see how they're going to get round the iron laws of sinc and Fourier pairs.

Audio engineering has to adhere to those pesky iron laws but audio marketing does not!

 

[watchnerd]

 
Audio engineering has to adhere to those pesky iron laws but audio marketing does not!

 
Maybe they're injecting anti-phase ultrasonics to induce cancellation?

 

[spruce music]

https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2013186561&recNum=132&maxRec=599628&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=&queryString=nano+OR+filter+OR+ceramic&tab=PCTDescription
 
You can read this patent which isn't necessarily all of MQA, but a key part of it.  Probably a good idea to look at the Drawings first before reading the description.
 
And maybe look into compressed sensing AD conversions.  Under the right conditions the basic tenets of Shannon-Nyquist can be gotten around so to speak.  There have been comments from Meridian hinting they do use compressed sensing techniques for the higher sample rates.

 

[castleofargh]

  One thing you could do is read the patent.  Don't have it handy, but have seen threads with links to it.  I think I may have posted it here at one time.
 
I think they are leaving the 13 most significant bits intact.  They fold ultrasonic info into the lower three bits.  Most ultrasonic info is so low in level that is all you need to encode it. Once you split the band at 20 khz the above 20 khz samples would usually be zeros in the upper bits.  So you can throw those away and lose nothing.  They do this in a way you supposedly get 15 bits accurately without decoding.  With decoding the lower bits can be decoded into the ultrasonic portion and put together with the top 13 bits to get a file with higher sampling rates and a few more bits of bit depth. 
 
What they are doing with filtering is a separate issue.  Even when they unfold into some very high sample rates they actually are only going for 30 khz response though supposedly with filtering that has very little time blur (their marketing words). 
 
The use of subtractive dither and compressed sensing are how they manage this in the relatively small file size.

oh so my weird understanding from the video was really close in fact. I was just wrong suspecting they would stick to redbook for lowest bit depth.
so when the bandwidth isn't good enough for the full data, they just send the 13/40 data to save space, and the sender can automatically chose how much more bits to send depending on the connection quality of the receiver? am I getting it right?

 

[spruce music]

 
oh so my weird understanding from the video was really close in fact. I was just wrong suspecting they would stick to redbook for lowest bit depth.
so when the bandwidth isn't good enough for the full data, they just send the 13/40 data to save space, and the sender can automatically chose how much more bits to send depending on the connection quality of the receiver? am I getting it right?

I am not sure if you are or not.  The rate for full MQA is 1 mbps.  Less than 1.411 mbps of redbook.  Firstly MQA would stream as a FLAC file.  So normally you get about 2 to 1 compression there.  Then MQA manages to pack more info into those bits than is the norm for plain PCM redbook.  But yes, the sent file will have various rates at which it will unpack on the playback end depending on the original recording. 

 

[watchnerd]

What's the problem that all of this fancy manipulation is trying go solve?
 
Bandwidth for lossless streaming?  
 
My home broadband is plenty fast enough for that. Mobile - depends, sometimes yes - but it's mobile, so down-shifting to lossy is okay.
 
Better impulse response?
 
Nice, in theory, but I doubt any transducers can match what is on offer (and maybe not what is in Redbook, either).
 
This seems like a solution in search of a problem...

 

[ralphp@optonline]

  What's the problem that all of this fancy manipulation is trying go solve?
 
Bandwidth for lossless streaming?  
 
My home broadband is plenty fast enough for that. Mobile - depends, sometimes yes - but it's mobile, so down-shifting to lossy is okay.
 
Better impulse response?
 
Nice, in theory, but I doubt any transducers can match what is on offer (and maybe not what is in Redbook, either).
 
This seems like a solution in search of a problem...

Oh there is most definitely a problem. Meridian's income stream from MLP (lossless Meridian Packing) is about to expire and Meridian needs a new income stream. Therefore the point of MQA is to give Meridian a proprietary technology that can then be licensed for use by others. In other words: MONEY, as in money flowing from your bank account into their bank account.

 

[watchnerd]

  Oh there is most definitely a problem. Meridian's income stream from MLP (lossless Meridian Packing) is about to expire and Meridian needs a new income stream. Therefore the point of MQA is to give Meridian a proprietary technology that can then be licensed for use by others. In other words: MONEY, as in money flowing from your bank account into their bank account.

 
Can anyone confirm if MQA has DRM built in?
 
If it does, it's a deal-breaker for me.  I'm never buying DRM-ed music on any platform ever again.

 

[upstateguy]

  Now hold on just a minute!
 
I happen to really like the sound of temporal blur(ring),it's that dreaded melodic blurring that drives me crazy. Not mention spacial, dynamic and rhythmic (related to but not the same as temporal) blurring. Plus the newly discovered gravitational blurring (caused by gravitational waves). Makes one wonder how we manage to be able to listen to any music.

 
Temporal Blurring :   Love the term.  It has such a nice ring to it.  Makes me think of the TARDIS.
 
Gravitational Blurring:   A very serious audio defect indeed.  Increases as you approach an event horizon.
 

 

  What's the problem that all of this fancy manipulation is trying go solve?
 
Bandwidth for lossless streaming?  
 
My home broadband is plenty fast enough for that. Mobile - depends, sometimes yes - but it's mobile, so down-shifting to lossy is okay.
 
Better impulse response?
 
Nice, in theory, but I doubt any transducers can match what is on offer (and maybe not what is in Redbook, either).
 
This seems like a solution in search of a problem...

Oh there is most definitely a problem. Meridian's income stream from MLP (lossless Meridian Packing) is about to expire and Meridian needs a new income stream. Therefore the point of MQA is to give Meridian a proprietary technology that can then be licensed for use by others. In other words: MONEY, as in money flowing from your bank account into their bank account.

 
+1 on Meridian's income stream from MLP is about to expire and they need a new source of money.  <--- This is done all the time and some of us remain skeptical when new format claims appear.  Time will tell how audible the effect is.
 

 

  Oh there is most definitely a problem. Meridian's income stream from MLP (lossless Meridian Packing) is about to expire and Meridian needs a new income stream. Therefore the point of MQA is to give Meridian a proprietary technology that can then be licensed for use by others. In other words: MONEY, as in money flowing from your bank account into their bank account.

 
Can anyone confirm if MQA has DRM built in?
 
If it does, it's a deal-breaker for me.  I'm never buying DRM-ed music on any platform ever again.

 
I would think the people who buy into this, buy everything, and don't care about DRM.
 
 
 

 

[watchnerd]

   
Temporal Blurring :   Love the term.  It has such a nice ring to it.  Makes me think of the TARDIS.
 
Gravitational Blurring:   A very serious audio defect indeed.  Increases as you approach an event horizon.
 
 
+1 on Meridian's income stream from MLP is about to expire and they need a new source of money.  <--- This is done all the time and some of us remain skeptical when new format claims appear.  Time will tell how audible the effect is.
 
 
I would think the people who buy into this, buy everything, and don't care about DRM.
 
 
 

 
MQA = New Pono?

 

[ralphp@optonline]

   
MQA = New Pono?

Not quite since Neil Young is a high end audio outsider whereas Meridian is a high end audio insider. Basically that means the high end audio press is going to be 100% behind MQA and keep on pushing MQA until the bitter end. With Pono the high end audio press quickly jumped ship shortly after the initial big push.

 

[Baxide]

The thing is MQA is not high end. The blurb they released clearly describes a system that makes a poorly streamed track sound a lot better if subjected to MQA decoding. It does not say at any stage that you are getting a bit accurate stream of the original audio file. What it does say is that you get to hear a reproduction of something that audio engineers and artists say that it sounds just like the original. Imagine ordering a Ferrari and the engineer telling you that it sounds just like a Ferrari, even though it is a Fiat.