[eyeteeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller Is that your opinon about the freedom of speech, and about to express your opinions in a free forum, like it or not???

I'd think those who can't tolerate someone who hears differences in powercords are as guilty of trying to stifle free speech.

They're the fundamentalists and totalitarians of the audio world. It infuriates them that we may, through our curiosity, stray off the clearly lit road.

 

[markl]

Quote:

So what is the meaning of these forums if everybody HAVE TO THINK THE SAME WAY.....???

A common protest from people who think we should all believe cables don't make a difference.

*sigh* This is such a problem. I wish management would solve this one way or another, but they don't seem united on this, or able or willing to reach the obvious conclusion/resolution. I tried complaining but it didn't work.

IMO, why have a cable section at all, if the site isn't tacitly endorsing the fact that cables make a difference? If not, what is the purpose? Is the purpose of the forum to bash cables and people who hear cable differences? Is this a skeptics forum?

I know that our fearless leader Jude is cable believer, he's written cable reviews. I think it's a logical conclusion to assume that he created the Cables forum because he believes cable differences are real, and Head-Fiers should have a place to discuss options.

But the reality is that this forum is instead subject to constant trolling from non-believers who've never really listened to aftermarket cables. They seem to relish posting other tweaks that are clearly absurd and linking them to cables as if the existence of one proves the lunacy of the other.

I don't get it, and I still don't understand why a person who doesn't hear cable differences and believes its all bunk would spend 10 seconds on this forum unless they live to troll and exist solely to try to stir the pot and cause problems. Otherwise, what is the point of your even looking at this forum let alone *posting* here? Anything you'd have to say is a troll by default.

 

[AdamWill]

eyeteeth: I'd say you have a persecution complex going on there. I see lots of people who find it strange that others will hear a difference in a power cord / fuse / wooden knob and even try to explain why they consider it so, but I see very few people who can't "tolerate" people who hear a difference, i.e., try and stop them expressing / discussing their opinions. Equally, I don't see many people who DO 'believe' in cables trying to oppress people who don't. Essentially, I'm saying - where's the problem? There are those who 'believe', those who don't, and those who come somewhere in the middle, and as long as none of them try and make the others shut up, and respect other forum rules (i.e. nothing too personal and no thread crapping), where's the problem with everyone expressing their own opinion?

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeteeth I'd think those who can't tolerate someone who hears differences in powercords are as guilty of trying to stifle free speech. They're the fundamentalists and totalitarians of the audio world. It infuriates them that we may, through our curiosity, stray off the clearly lit road.

Well, if I do not believe in those differences, that doesn't mean that others could not have the freedom to express that they do, and no name callings please....but maybe one side of the opinions are based a little more in science and in physics, and others just in saying that they do, and maybe in voodoo magic and snake oil....

Now feel free to believe what you think is the right for you, and feel free to express what you think, without offending the others, and period....

Don't forget also that your freedom ends, while others begin....

BTW I do beleive that a power cable could make a difference, same as fuses, or any other power link, and will do, if it is connected to a power regenerator, filter, and conditioner, in other words while the cable is just the link between the absolute clean power, and the item in question, but to state that you connect a cable directly to the AC outlet of you house in the middle of NYC, and hear differences, is IMO, and with no offense intended, as little on the naive side....What about the hundreds of miles of bare cooper, twisted, rusted, and really cheap bad one, from the outlet to the power plant, or the closer transformer, or is that are you trying to say that this portion of the cable have no impact on the sound??? Or is just onle that last portion (or the middle one) what counts.....that is what really amazed me, everytime I heard about those discussions on power cables....

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamWill What gets me is the logical conclusion if you believe in _every_ tweak ever. So I start from a good source, good amp and good speakers. What do I do next? -$100 Replace the interconnects. WOW! Everything is so much better! That last system sounded like ****! -$100 Oh, but I forgot the power cord. WOW! Everything is so much better! That last system sounded like ****! -$200 Whoops! Power conditioning! WOW! Everything is so much better! That last system sounded like ****! -$25 Hey, those fuses aren't Audiophile Approved. WOW! Everything is so much better! That last system sounded like ****! etc, etc, etc. The point is that everyone believes their little tweak is the best thing since sliced bread and makes everything better...for one, this means that if you do all the tweaks, you get fifteen zillion quantum leaps in sound quality. The other thing is some of them seem to interfere with each other. All those people who replaced their power cords...did they all replace their fuses too? If not, why isn't there a 'bottleneck' caused by that nasty, non-audiophile grade fuse? I dunno. Call me a sceptic.

LOL. What you are doing here is the old trick of trying to oversimplify in order to make your target seem ridiculous. It may work in high school debate, but really...

"everyone believes their little tweak is the best thing since sliced bread and makes everything better..."

I especially liked this bit. First of all "everyone" does NOT believe every tweak improves things. Not everyone who tweaks does it well or know what they're doing. It takes patience, concentration, and rote labor to evaluate each tweak and decide whether it improves, doesn't change, or even degrade the sound.

If you're able to do this on a regular basis after many trial-by-fire, then you are an experienced tweaker with open but skeptical mind. For example, for every tweak I've found to be beneficial, I probably rejected ten other tweaks over the years. These just don't get the press like the ones that work.

 

[SemperFidelity]

If you own a vintage transistor amplifier, one that was designed during the relatively brief period before the designers had all learned that the transistors protected the fuses, you might want such a fuse to fill the output fuse position.

An early tweak was to bypass the fuse, with a length of copper wire. (Silver had not been invented yet....

) This was done as it was well known that fuses in the appropriate size range (and usually a fast blow to boot) showed delta R effects with current.

 

[meat01]

Quote:

IMO, why have a cable section at all, if the site isn't tacitly endorsing the fact that cables make a difference? If not, what is the purpose? Is the purpose of the forum to bash cables and people who hear cable differences? Is this a skeptics forum?

This is not the cable forum. It is the Cables, Tweaks, Speakers, Accesories (DBT-Free Forum). It is a place to discuss audio equipment and that is exactly what everyone is trying to do. I do not understand why everyone has to believe that cables make a difference, when there is no proof or study that says so. It sounds like anyone that does not share your opinion should not post on this forum.

You are certainly welcome to discuss the differences you hear in cables and I believe we should be entitled to discuss that they sound the same. I do not complain to management that I have to read your posts about how x cable improves the bass and soundstage without you proving it, so why do you feel the need to complain when someone disagrees with you?

Your reviews of interconnects and power cables are still on this forum and are even archived, so I don't see why Helix can't make a post about fuses without being called names or told to get a life. We don't call you names in your posts. You don't have to agree with his post and you have a right to express your opinion in his post. As such, we don't have to agree that your cables sound different than any other cable and should be allowed to express that.

To get back on topic, I am wondering why they don't make silver fuses, since silver is a better conductor than gold.

 

[Jeff Wong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by meat01 To get back on topic, I am wondering why they don't make silver fuses, since silver is a better conductor than gold.

Oxidation.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller Is that your opinon about the freedom of speech, and about to express your opinions in a free forum, like it or not??? So what is the meaning of these forums if everybody HAVE TO THINK THE SAME WAY.....???

There is a difference between the right to free speech (what is permissible to be said) and good behavior (what ought to be said or how it should be said). My opinion is that someone starting a thread for the sole purpose of poking fun at others, or to show how "intelligent" they are by suggesting that people who believe power cords make a difference are fools, is not behaving well and is not advancing the hobby or benefitting this "community." I don't begrudge their right to hold opinions to the effect that power cords don't make a difference, or even to express such opinions given the current rules of this forum, but they don't need to go out of the way to mock. meat01 regularly makes comments setting forth his view of cables, and I disagree with them strongly, yet he does so without insulting others. There is no reason why certain people have to act like children.

EDIT: The reference to "freedom of speech" is also misplaced for a number of reasons that we don't have time to delve into, but there are many things that one cannot say, or things one cannot discuss, on this forum.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl I don't get it, and I still don't understand why a person who doesn't hear cable differences and believes its all bunk would spend 10 seconds on this forum unless they live to troll and exist solely to try to stir the pot and cause problems. Otherwise, what is the point of your even looking at this forum let alone *posting* here?

I've often pondered the same thing. Perhaps we could induce our friends with the brilliant scientific minds to explore that interesting psychological phenomenon.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS I've often pondered the same thing. Perhaps we could induce our friends with the brilliant scientific minds to explore that interesting psychological phenomenon.

Objectivists are notoriously poor at self-evaluation and insight...

P.S. I'm serious. That's probably why many scientists and engineers are "nerds."

 

[helix]

the thing about nerds (scientists and engineers) thou is they tend to think with logic unlike most subjectivist audiophiles who are psychologically influanced with what is most fashionable at the time.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by helix the thing about nerds (scientists and engineers) thou is they tend to think with logic unlike most subjectivist audiophiles who are psychologically influanced with what is most fashionable at the time.

Logic without intuition and insight is empty and sterile. Granted, sometimes there's too much gullibility and mistrust of critical thinking in audiophile circles, but I'd much rather chat with people around here than some of the arseholes hanging around on certain scientific and technical forums.

 

[K2Grey]

Since everyone likes to make sweeping and unsubstantiated statements, I will claim that intuition and insight need not be accompanied by the belief that psychology applies to everyone except them.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS There is a difference between the right to free speech (what is permissible to be said) and good behavior (what ought to be said or how it should be said). My opinion is that someone starting a thread for the sole purpose of poking fun at others, or to show how "intelligent" they are by suggesting that people who believe power cords make a difference are fools, is not behaving well and is not advancing the hobby or benefitting this "community." I don't begrudge their right to hold opinions to the effect that power cords don't make a difference, or even to express such opinions given the current rules of this forum, but they don't need to go out of the way to mock. meat01 regularly makes comments setting forth his view of cables, and I disagree with them strongly, yet he does so without insulting others. There is no reason why certain people have to act like children. EDIT: The reference to "freedom of speech" is also misplaced for a number of reasons that we don't have time to delve into, but there are many things that one cannot say, or things one cannot discuss, on this forum.

IMO he was not poking fun to others, and the thread was not started talking about power cords, he was poking fun to the ones who have gotten this fuses, but my question is if you were not one of them, why not let them speak for themselves, maybe they are convinced that they have wasted their miserable money....But the cables issue show up after that, it was not intended inside the original post at all...

About things that we can or not discuss in this forum, why not letting Jude and the mods do their job, don't you think??? And in the meanwhile let the people express themselves in freedom wihtout offending the rest and calling names, of course.....