[frenchbat]

I don't doubt it's possible, I'm just saying that it's not consistent all over the world.
 
I reckon you seem to be moving a lot around asia, but do you think you could find the same kind of prices down under for any other brand ? iBasso seems to have somewhat of a different business model, and yes I can find it for close to the price even in Tokyo, which is a rarity by itself.

 

[estreeter]

We dont have very many audio retailers in Australia carrying headphone amps, and very few carry portable amps, presumably because there is more margin in desktops. Multi-channel AV systems are much bigger business here, and you can imagine what it costs to ship a large receiver from Asia to Oz.
 
Firestone, Centrance DACPort, Burson HA-160
http://www.wickeddigital.com.au/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53&category_id=21&page=shop.browse&limitstart=0&limit=25
 
Chinese sourced desktop amps:
http://www.coemaudio.com.au/Amplifiers/Headphone-Amplifiers/
 
Benchmark, Fiio, Meier, Burson, Talisman
http://headphones.com.au/pbrowse?catID=2
 
Lehmann, Musical Fidelity
http://www.lenwallisaudio.com/products/amplifiers/headphone-amp
 
Local EBay reseller with Schiit amps:
http://stores.ebay.com.au/kablecorner/Other-/_i.html?_fsub=1&_sid=25038143&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322
 
Local Ebay seller with Heed, Beresford, Audinst and Fiio:
http://stores.ebay.com.au/soundsightfocus/_i.html?rt=nc&_sid=930889380&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1513&_pgn=2
 
 
 

 

[frenchbat]

Thanks for the links Estreeter, you actually kind of proved my point :
 
- DAC centrance is 470US$ (449AUS$) for 399US$ on the brand website,
- Schiit Asgard is 420US$ (400AUS$) for 249US$ on Schiit's website,
- Meier Concerto is 890US$ (850AUS$) instead of the 750US$ Jan was asking when it was still on the website.
 
Chinese makers are probably the only ones able to pull out a decent price difference from direct sales, even after pondering the importer's fee. But that leaves us with a question : How much is their mark-up when they sell it directly to you ? Me think it's quite high, and most likely much higher than any of the little shops in the USA or Europe. 
 
As far as I concerned, I'm ready to pay a bit more for peace of mind during transportation, and give my support to one man operated shops (we have many talented ones here) but not on the likes of what some are going for.

 

[qusp]

Quote:

 
However there is a fine line here, as the customer (usually) doesn't care much about the peace of mind of the shipper. Where things are hurting is when said shipper is using high cost transportation at the expense of the buyer for his own peace of mind, without giving any choice. Ultimately everyone is voting with its wallet of course, as I did, but I cannot help but understanding the frustration of Estreeter here.

this
 
 
fedex also have an interesting policy that means they will charge a 'brokerage fee' which is supposed to cover dealing with customs. all well and good if its needed, but the thing is, often companies will price according to this being included across the board, we do not pay any duty for anything under 1000aud and even over if its for my business, so i object to paying them 20 dollars or more in some cases, for no reason whatsoever.

 

[estreeter]

Frenchbat, you need to deduct the 10% Goods and Services Tax (GST) from those figures to see what the local retailers are actually grossing per amp/whatever. Local retailers have been wailing about this for some time now - not sure if it applies to EBay sellers though, or how they enforce such things. Whatever - except the links to ebay sellers, the other guys all have brick-and-mortar stores. That costs money - in Oz, a lot of money.
 
Edit : I agree that the Schiit markup is crazy, GST or no GST, and the Coem Audio guys claim that their prices are higher than the Chinese originators because they have to ensure that the power cabling meets local requirements. Given that no-one else seems to give a hoot, I find it an interesting claim.

 

[frenchbat]

@Qusp : Absolutely true, and usually the same policy ends up with your package ending up taking more time to go through the customs. Unless specifically required, UPS, DHL or FEDEX should be no more than an option, with USPS or equivalent as default.
 
@Estreeter : fair point, let's look at it when pondering the tax :
 
- DAC centrance is 470US$ (449AUS$) for 399US$ on the brand website, before VAT 427US$
- Schiit Asgard is 420US$ (400AUS$) for 249US$ on Schiit's website, before VAT 481US$
- Meier Concerto is 890US$ (850AUS$) instead of the 750US$, before VAT 810US$
 
The difference is less marked but still here. Anyway as you're pointing out the brick-and-mortar cost money, but I don't think there's any significant difference with the management cost from any other importer's company. Basic point is that importer are more expensive for all US and European brand (I suspect japanese ones too), and the initial question stays : How can chinese brand be sold the same price on their website and at importer's stores ? I vote they mark up double in direct sales. 
 

 

[Armaegis]

Do you guys have the option to broker your packages yourself? We can do it in Canada, although there's quite a bit of runaround, and sometimes the delivery guys aren't cooperative.

 

[frenchbat]

I suppose you mean for package of more than 1000CAD$ value, isn't it ?
 
Well that's a good question, I have no idea how that would work here in Japan. But even assuming that's possible, how to go around it if that is included in the FEDEX et al. fee ? 

 

[goodvibes]

 
Quote:

goodvibes, I think you are completely off track. Justin has previously attributed a large percentage of his sales to international orders and I have little doubt that Ray would also have a large number of orders from outside the US. Running a business with pre-amps costing thousand of dollars without a link to a secure payment service is just nuts, IMO - Ray needs to check the calendar and realise that things have moved on from 1995. I am in no way attacking him personally or the quality of his products, but you might like to check a few things before wading in to defend your favorite amp builder.
 
AFAIK,. there is absolutely nothing stopping Ray from selling 'CONUS only' or appointing distributors in other countries. Always willing to hear otherwise.

Never owned anything of his. All I'm saying is that as long as he's not pocketing your extra dough, you shouldn't slam him. If you don't think it worth it, don't buy and leave it at that. His preferred shipping method is probably the one he's the most comfy with. Consumers are all about taking risks to saving money until a shipment gets lost and then slam the vendor for 'losing' his order or worse. The risk is always the vendors and because that's so, the shipping is ultimately his option. Other vendors wont even insure and look at losses as being amortized in the insurance savings but it's up to them.

 

[Armaegis]

Quote:

I suppose you mean for package of more than 1000CAD$ value, isn't it ?
 
Well that's a good question, I have no idea how that would work here in Japan. But even assuming that's possible, how to go around it if that is included in the FEDEX et al. fee ? 

Taxes we have to pay regardless, and any package over $60 (Cnd) gets hit with brokerage fees.
 
If you ship via "cheap" method, then the brokerage fees are added on by customs which you pay when the item is delivered. In our case, we have the option to refuse shipment and choose to broker ourselves. This involves driving down to the shipping depot and getting your shipping/invoicepapers (supposedly you can get them from the delivery guy, but mine acted dumb). Then you take those papers down to customs where they will process and you pay your taxes and disbursement fees. An extra trip down to the shipping depot in between may be required if they didn't give you everything you needed. After that, back to the depot to pick up your package. All in all, a lot of hassle and time wasted if you don't live close by, but you save on the fees which can be significant.
 
If you ship via the "expensive' method, then basically you're paying the shipping company to broker it for you and there's no option to broker yourself. Oftentimes this is no cheaper than the cheap shipping plus border brokerage, but usually has the benefit of faster overall delivery.
 
 

 

[frenchbat]

Ah my bad, I forgot the limit is 60CAD$ for import taxes in Canada. Well I don't know, it's the first time I hear about going through the customs oneself.
 
When you say "expensive method" I assume you're talking about UPS et al.,  but what about "cheap" does that include everything else ? For example where is the EMS, USPS etc ... type of sending ?

 

[Armaegis]

When I said "cheap" method, I meant the cheaper options from UPS/FedEx/etc. For North America, I believe they are called UPS Standard and FedEx Ground.
 
UPS Expedited and FedEx Air (I might be off about the names) are more expensive and they do the brokerage themselves, but sometimes you still have to pay extra for whatever bs reason. They might be called something else for worldwide delivery as well. I'm only familiar with those between Canada/US.
 
Shipping from USPS from US to Canada is kind of a crapshoot as to whether you get hit with brokerage fees or not. If you underdeclare, it's usually ok (but not guaranteed). If declared/insured for full value, sometimes it gets through, sometimes now. Even when I ask the postal clerk, they just shrug and say it's random sometimes. On a couple occasions now I have had two identical packages delivered from the same seller to the same household (weird coincidences with no bearing on this anecdote), with the two deliveries going to different recipients. One would have extra fees tacked on top, and the other not.

 

[estreeter]

 
Quote:

Never owned anything of his. All I'm saying is that as long as he's not pocketing your extra dough, you shouldn't slam him. If you don't think it worth it, don't buy and leave it at that.

Wanted to revisit this as it has reared its ugly head in another thread, and I think goodvibes really had the last word here : end of the day, the consumer holds all the cards. Here in Oz, increasing fuel costs mean that shipping costs will only increase as a percentage of the overall cost of ownership, whether the kit comes from Sydney or Siberia.

 

[Jack C]

Shipping can be a very contentious point because it is often very difficult to correctly implement an automated shipping calculator module, especially for small businesses, which most high end equipment makers are. And even if a business takes the time, or hires the right talent to implement such a module, constant changes in pricing models and services make it necessary to maintain such modules, or else the prices charged become invalid.
 
And that's just domestic shipping. 
 
International shipping is an additional layer of non-trivial complexity. Customers don't like surprises and postage/customs/fees due at delivery is certainly a surprise, especially if the original shipping charge was already pretty significant.
 
Jack