[buonassi]

Ibasso dx160 for the p2p ratio. Insanely good for the price.

 

[naughty]

comparing my android phone (Xiaomi Pocophone F1) connected to an Ifi iDSD micro Black Label with a fairly good USB cable to My Fiio M11 with the same headphones and earphones the Fiio wins noticably - then connecting my Fiio BTR3 to my phone and still the M11 wins by a much larger margin .... so to me the cost was worth it - so right now im saving up for a high end DAP plus a high end set of IEMs - its not only for portable but also going to remain my preffered listening method since in my country we suffer from a government induced phenomenon called "Loadshedding" which is basically rolling blackouts of electricity so no power for long periods of time - and the power utility is so bankrupted and corrupt that there seems to be no end in sight - so nowadays just looking for battery operated devices that can be charged whenever the power goes back on - there might even come a time when the Power utility cannot provide power anymore so will then have to buy a generator just for hot water to have a bath or to cook food ..... yes the government of my country really sucks that much

 

[hkpants]

I just realised you have a pretty amazing IEM lineup and also Micro iDSD (sorry, did not have a look at your signature before)! So what do you think by yourself comparing them from your ES100 to Micro iDSD? I think SQ differences of ES100 compared to a DAP will be basically a very similar experience, just small tonal differences between the different DAP models!

You're a goddamn genius, I don't know why I didn't think of that comparison. Just based on a hazardous guess, I'd imagine a dedicated DAP would supposedly be somewhere in between the ES100 and the IFi Micro in terms of sound quality. Comparing the ES100 to the iFi Micro, I'd say there's a difference, but only if I'm critically listening. I am participating in an IEM loaner where the IEM features an Estat driver, a driver that I've heard requires significantly more power, so it is possible there will be a bigger SQ difference when testing those IEMs since the ES100 has lower power than the iFi Micro. I will get back to you on that when I receive that IEM.

Hmmm...do it like me! Just buy a middleweight DAP blindly and compare for some weeks (or months). Worst case scenario is you lose maybe 150$ reselling it. If you like using a DAP and find the differences significant you can still get a more expensive one later...

I might just have to give that a shot.

comparing my android phone (Xiaomi Pocophone F1) connected to an Ifi iDSD micro Black Label with a fairly good USB cable to My Fiio M11 with the same headphones and earphones the Fiio wins noticably - then connecting my Fiio BTR3 to my phone and still the M11 wins by a much larger margin .... so to me the cost was worth it - so right now im saving up for a high end DAP plus a high end set of IEMs - its not only for portable but also going to remain my preffered listening method since in my country we suffer from a government induced phenomenon called "Loadshedding" which is basically rolling blackouts of electricity so no power for long periods of time - and the power utility is so bankrupted and corrupt that there seems to be no end in sight - so nowadays just looking for battery operated devices that can be charged whenever the power goes back on - there might even come a time when the Power utility cannot provide power anymore so will then have to buy a generator just for hot water to have a bath or to cook food ..... yes the government of my country really sucks that much

Wow that sounds rough. If you don't mind me asking, what country is this?

Yeah, in your scenario, having a dedicated DAP would make a lot of sense since it would reduce the power consumption of your phone/laptop/computer. Funny enough, the iFi Micro actually works as a power bank (not that I ever use it for that purpose), so could be an emergency power supply haha.

 

[naughty]

Wow that sounds rough. If you don't mind me asking, what country is this?

Yeah, in your scenario, having a dedicated DAP would make a lot of sense since it would reduce the power consumption of your phone/laptop/computer. Funny enough, the iFi Micro actually works as a power bank (not that I ever use it for that purpose), so could be an emergency power supply haha.

I'm in South Africa, specifically in Durban, KZN

I had an Ifi iDSD Micro Black Label but i sold it to buy the Fiio M11 since i did not have the ready cash to have both units at that time - i will get another iDSD sometime in the future because it works well as a fixed DAC for a desktop setup with a laptop too with difficult to drive headphones (i have a set of Massdrop HIfIman HE4xx which have a very low sensitivity) not really interested in a DAC which is connected to power, since the power cuts off suddenly each time they "loadshed", but its when it gets switched back on the equipment can get hit by huge surges that can blow the power supplies, so i want to stick to battery operated equipment which can be charged when the power goes back on.

I have lost three to four hard drives and a computer plus a few HP microservers with all of the surges when the power goes on and off so the fewer things i have connected to the wall plugs the better it is for me (and most people living here) ..... anything connected to electricity is at huge risk here, even my fridge is beginning to have a hard time but lucky it is around 10 years old so about time that its replaced.

Many people are having to install Generators and Invertors with lots of batteries into their homes and many are getting into solar power as well, and some are even trying to get off the grid altogether with all three alternative solutions, but that is expensive, though if you do not have to pay the power company a monthly bill it just means you are paying for many years upfront to get the equipment to go "off grid" and a few richer people are already doing so.

 

[yong_shun]

I always believe there is a reason why the DAP still survive in this era where everyone is going for wireless. I am a fan of DAP unless I am doing some intensive movement, else my ES100 and Shanling UP4 hard to come into the picture.

 

[KarlAgathon]

I love my Hiby R6 Pro

 

[jeejack]

My Fiio M9 sound mutch beter than my btr5. It have more power, dinamic and sound more clear. But I will not give up at btr5 because it sound good and is portability. I have only 2.5mm wired cable

 

[F208Frank]

ES100 was also my first DAP haha. It was a fun cheap tinker, there are many affordable decent options out there these days.

 

[mattiav]

I have a DX220, and the main reason was to be able to add amps to drive the bigger, less sensitive headphones with the much higher output power and to be able to swap amp cards around. The less expected side effect was a much cleaner, much more powerful amp section for my more sensitive Campfire Audio IEMs. Which sounded good out of my iPhone (6s+), but a lot better out of the DX220. I would liked more than the 5-6 hours I get on average (leaving it on standby in between for days sometimes, I admit), but it is definitely more than a good enough compromise for me, and the audio quality is right up there.

I do plan to add a BT dongle like the BTR-5 or the new qudelix at some point for convenience when I don’t want an extra device, but the quality difference is there.

 

[Redcarmoose]

This is the kind of thread that will get different owners rehashing their own realizations before buying and defending and glorifying their purchase. That’s ok. It’s actually inevitable such posts will occur anyway.

I note too your question isn’t just concentrating on value or sound quality but almost looks at the possible DAP purchase as almost a different lifestyle.....and it is. We can talk about sound quality and a DAP letting your phone battery last but I think in the end there’s slightly more to had.

What helps is to kind-of know a price range. But you have explained about being suspect of Android and that’s a true concern.

Wanting to stream is why Sony has introduced two new Android Walkmans this year. Still the drawback is battery life with Android. If anything the new Android Walkmans don’t have the battery life of the ZX300, the Walkman 1A nor the Walkman 1Z. Unfortunately the only way to use these DAPs would be to Bluetooth a signal to them from your phone and use them only as an amplifier. And of course the Bluetooth is only one way at a time so having Bluetooth headphones someone would be really better off just running off a phone.

What I can offer is the old fashioned trend of what a standard DAP is like. Owning the Walkman 1A and 1Z, there is no chance of the operating system getting outdated and left behind as they use a style of Linux. The battery can go 20 hours minimum and 30 hours maximum depending on style of use. Also having a 400GB card along with the internal memory gets most all the music you could ask for. Having the access in your palm makes searching and finding albums fast and easy. They make 320kbps sound good as well as 16/44.1 and 24bit sound fantastic. But it’s an expenditure which really has someone to question to get rid of all desktops and other gear. The Walkman 1A is $1200 and the 1Z is $3200. With that said I sat here on Head-Fi and started to read the stories of firmware issues peaking in 2013. Some DAPs from those days never had updates to fix their issues. So now to have something like the Sony Linux system run flawlessly and smoothly is quite an amazing experience. Interestingly too that even after being released in 2016 the players are still getting regular updates at least every year or two, making them sound better and better. It’s not like Sony made something and forgot about it. Also there has been quite a wave of aftermarket software developments which have taken the 1A sound in the last couple months and brought it right up to the 1Z doorstep. The players can be used as DACs with computers as well as send and receive Bluetooth. They play pretty much every file and are as powerful almost as a desktop.

It was this wanting of desktop power being the real change in the last couple years. And while full-size headphones are always going to be slightly better from a dedicated desktop the Walkmans are really right there in quality.

I have listened to the FiiO M11 too (and it’s great), but the thing your getting with the Walkmans is sound quality. The quality of reproduction is still very competitive even all these years later. With over 36500 posts in the a Walkman thread they’re still just as exciting as when they came out in 2016.

They can end up a lifestyle where all your music is there and it’s all you need to use. The interfaces are simple and fast, they keep a charge when not in use, and complete an audiophile lifestyle every day.


Good luck.

 

[Hanesu]

This is the kind of thread that will get different owners rehashing their own realizations before buying and defending and glorifying their purchase. That’s ok. It’s actually inevitable such posts will occur anyway.

Agree! There is so much psychology going on in the audio world.
I am not sure though, if you mean this from the perspective of BT device buyers or DAP buyers? Or both?

Well, generally speaking, I realized the opinion about BT devices often is generated in a similar psychologically influenced way. Just to be part of the "audiophile community" often is related to statements like "BT devices simply cannot sound as good as wired".

I note too your question isn’t just concentrating on value or sound quality but almost look at the possible DAP purchase as almost a different lifestyle.....and it is. We can talk about sound quality and a DAP letting your phone battery last but I think in the end there’s slightly more to had.

Funny thing I realized with my ZX507: I can listen to Tidal with it for maybe 6 hours before its battery dies. Listening to my phone via BT I sometimes get even 7 hours! In both cases my phone still lasts all day (need to charge it at night time). BT is surprisingly energy efficient. And...well, Android as DAP-OS is not....

 

[Redcarmoose]

Agree! There is so much psychology going on in the audio world.
I am not sure though, if you mean this from the perspective of BT device buyers or DAP buyers? Or both?

Well, generally speaking, I realized the opinion about BT devices often is generated in a similar psychologically influenced way. Just to be part of the "audiophile community" often is related to statements like "BT devices simply cannot sound as good as wired".



Funny thing I realized with my ZX507: I can listen to Tidal with it for maybe 6 hours before its battery dies. Listening to my phone via BT I sometimes get even 7 hours! In both cases my phone still lasts all day (need to charge it at night time). BT is surprisingly energy efficient. And...well, Android as DAP-OS not....

As audiophiles there is a place of compromise where we are OK. And as audiophiles we will literally put up with so much. We will go to the end of the earth for great sound, and make sacrifices for it. For some that Android Walkman will serve it’s purpose.


No the way the first question was written was fairly open. There is an open question about it, that you can kind of feel the emotion and the DAP curiosity. But, there is this divide where Bluetooth devices on their own provide a solution and equip a lifestyle. They of anything have come of age this last two years.

My first section was just saying that with such a beginning post your going to get a range of answers. My answer was a generalization answer to the enthusiasm in his question. And even though maybe not a direct answer to his question but offered possibilities.

 

[Hanesu]

As audiophiles there is a place of compromise where we are OK. And as audiophiles we will literally put up with so much. We will go to the end of the earth for great sound, and make sacrifices for it.

Your statement reminds me of an interesting discussion I had with somebody in a German audio forum. The discussion was about the definition of the term "audiophile". As we all know the word itself means "someone who likes audio" and this is mainly linked to sound quality. But for me, personally, it includes the whole enjoyment of listening to audio. Of course sound quality is the biggest part of this enjoyment, but for example, if a device offers me great ways to discover new music (=well functioning streaming services on a smooth OS) or the flexibility to hook it up to other of my devices and enjoy great audio with them, too (my TV, for example) - all of this is also part of my audiophile experience. That is why I like the combination of very good sounding earphones with a good BT device and the perfectly smooth OS of my phone!

 

[Redcarmoose]

Your statement reminds me of an interesting discussion I had with somebody in a German audio forum. The discussion was about the definition of the term "audiophile". As we all know the word itself means "someone who likes audio" and this is mainly linked to sound quality. But for me, personally, it includes the whole enjoyment of listening to audio. Of course sound quality is the biggest part of this enjoyment, but for example, if a device offers me great ways to discover new music (=well functioning streaming services on a smooth OS) or the flexibility to hook it up to other of my devices and enjoy great audio with them, too (my TV, for example) - all of this is also part of my audiophile experience. That is why I like the combination of very good sounding earphones with a good BT device and the perfectly smooth OS of my phone!

In total agreement. That’s why I tried to use words like lifestyle in my post. That is the only way new equipment is going to matter is if it blends with how the listener is accessing music. And maybe, like you say it’s not music but movies or podcasts or whatever. If someone has a giant record collection they need a turntable first.

It’s funny that these threads end up being “To Android” or “Not to Android” but in some ways it’s an example of our current predicament. But in so many ways it’s not a predicament as I believe portable sound became better the last couple years. So it’s just that now we have choices to make. I don’t think one way is better it’s only what’s right for the individual. This thread is very much the stream Bluetooth from a phone or get a streaming DAP thread. I simply wanted to post an example of the old fashioned way; so as to it’s not forgotten as a methodology.

 

[buonassi]

"Audiophiles don't use their equipment to listen to your music. Audiophiles use your music to listen to their equipment."
-Alan Parsons