[Voltron]

Some more posts today in the Official National Meet Impressions thread were discussing what to do in the next one. I thought maybe we should set up a new thread for future reference while everyone is thinking about this stuff, and also to avoid bogging down the normal kind of meet impressions. So, here's my first idea to float out there to get it started:

In thinking about the way this past Saturday went down, I wondered whether we should consider an alternative approach next year. On Saturday at the National, the vendors worked hard to present worthwhile gear and it was great that it worked and there was so much attention on the vendors. However, most people's setups--with some notable high-end exceptions--were largely under-utilized and everyone who had their stuff set up was torn between seeing the vendor tables and watching their own. Also, people who had gear out both days had to set up and fully break down two times. And don't get me wrong, I have told all the organizers that it was a fabulous success and came off very smooth. But Tyll has posted that he believes we could have twice the number of members and half again as many vendors next year. Whether or not that is accurate, we should think about trying something different to make it better for both members and vendors.

Day 1 would be a vendor-only day, with a full setups, loaners, etc. That way, people can get a real taste of all the vendor's gear, and it will encourage more vendors and even bigger/better displays and setups. If some vendors need some loaner gear of some kind, we can certainly get that from members in the area. Rudi had a computer source--and not a particularly good one--for the $10K balanced amp he brought all the way from Italy. That didn't make any sense. We also could do the raffles and prize drawings that day, because that took up a big chunk of time away from the tables. Again, it was great fun but ate up time to try out the bulk of members' setups. The dinner and panel discussion would also take place that night so that the vendors are present and available for the panel.

Day 2 would be a traditional meet on a large scale. This took place on Saturday simultaneously with the vendor presentations and in the same room. It was cool and exciting, but with less distractions while the mass of setups are available it would be an even better meet situation. Another idea for the meet day came from the San Jose last year. They had set up a smaller "high-end" room for more quiet listening (in theory at least, although NeilPeart was there, so quiet is relative). There was even a sign-up for time slots to regulate the number of people in the room. Regardless of the specifics, it was a good idea to have smaller rooms set up with different things in mind.

Alternatively, as a hybrid, we could have one big vendor room and one smaller member room on Day 1, and then move the meet into the big room on Day 2. That doesn't resolve the setup/breakdown problem, but might appeal to serious listeners who are not as interested in vendor presentations.

Just some thoughts. Anybody else have any ideas for next year?

 

[n_maher]

I'll chime in, since you asked

.

I think first, and foremost what was learned this year is that we needed more space on both days. Simply put there was such a mass of gear and people that getting around was difficult at best. I'm not trying to say that this was a big issue but if we're shooting for perfection (or even just better) I think more table space and more walking space is an absolute must. Even though there were only two of us at my table, with smallish setups it was tight, I can't imagine what some of the big boys were dealing with.

I think the multi room format needs to be explored for both days, but Sunday in particular. I really enjoyed both listening to gear and chatting with other folks, but doing both in the same room made both less than optimal. I don't think we'll ever get a library-quiet listening room but again, I think we can shoot for a higher standard!

And I'll throw this out there too, even though it may be wildly unpopular. I think there should be paid attendance prior to attending the meet. I think this for three reasons, one I don't EVER want to think that someone who was generous enough with their time to go through the agony of putting together something like national meet to get stuck holding a bill. Two, and this is almost as important, I want the people who sign up to have some motivation to actually show up. I got the impression this year, and I could be wrong, that there were a good number (20 or more?) of people who were signed up who just didn't show. Now I know that there are legit reasons for some folks but I'm sure that there are also some that just didn't feel up to it or whatever. I think that in particular for a gathering like this where attendance is restricted this is a must. I'm sure that for every person who didn't show there was someone who would have liked to have been there who was put on a waiting list and not allowed to come. Three, the last and least critical, the banquet was prepaid based on the number of total attendees so either people need to be given reason to eat (they paid for it) or there needs to be some sort of advanced signup for dinner. There was such an excess of food (from what I saw) that it was a shame for it to have been paid for and wasted.

Sorry for putting in more than my 2¢, I just see there being a couple of pretty simple ways to make next year's meet even better.

Nate

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Thanks, Voltron, for bringing the issue up. I was gong to start a thread sometime soon on this very subject. I will post in this thread the Exhibitors Contract soon as it is probably one good starting point. I also have a variety of thoughts similar to yours on improving the National Meet---though I think we should start calling it an International Meet so as to reflect the global nature of the membership here. There are myriad issues both great and small and I think it will be invaluable to open the brainstorming up to the community, however, I think it important to recognize that all the good ideas in the world only count inso far as they are able to be put into effect, and that it is the local members in the host city that will be the ones who have to pull everything off. So, we should be respectful to the host members and realize that they are the ones who will be signing up to do the work, and they should have significant latitude to express their own creativity and talents in the way they see fit.

That said, there is tremendous opportunity here to define the future fun we will all get to share in and I wouldn't want to miss hearing any ideas. FOr example, someone in the other thread mentioned a time lapse video of the event which I too think would be fun. Putting together a really comprehensive web cast would be pretty sweet. Having a barbeque might be fun. Organizing an amp measurement shootout for DIYers could be cool, HeadRoom could bring our Audio Precision tester and people could measure amps and get printouts of the hard work. I think we could put together a moderated panel discussion of amp designers for next time. Geez the list could go on and on.

 

[Wmcmanus]

Headphone listening should be done in a quiet environment. I've now been to 11 Head-Fi meets and have not encountered anything close to a quiet environment yet. I'm at the point that I don't really bother to listen to anything unless someone tugs on my arm and says "You've got to hear this setup!" Don't get me wrong, I love to socialize. Meeting folks like yourself, Al, and so many others, makes the meets fun. But the listening experiences at meets are simply not fun for me anymore. I've more or less given up which is a shame because I blew the opportunity to compare the ES-1 to the HEV90 and Egmont Signature. I didn't spend any time with the B52 or the RP1000, etc.

The only way to resolve the noise issue, IMO, would be to go to the "big show" format where all of the member setups would be operated out of hotel rooms. This way they could be "open" when they wanted to be and if they didn't have anyone to watch the room, they could lock the door and leave a note about when they were coming back. Ideally, we could get one or two floors of contiguous rooms such that members could walk up and down the hallways to check out room after room. For this to work there would have to be considerable room sharing, such that 5 or 6 members would be assigned to one room (other than bozebuttons of course!). At least one of the beds in the room would need to be knocked down and stored. Anyone who has been to one of the major audio shows will know what I'm talking about. It would give local members a chance to set up a speaker rig as well if they so desire.

There could still be a central place for vendors on day one, such as the room we used at the national meet. In fact, I think this would be essential to maintain their interest as well as the spirit of the community.

So essentially I agree with everything you've said, except that the "quiet room(s)" idea needs to be explored at considerable length. Oh, and trying to accomplish it by having young ladies carry around big "Shhhh" signs won't do it. We need to figure out how to spread the crowd into more rooms and smaller groups.

 

[philodox]

The main thing that I would like to see is an introduction period where everyone says a little about their rig and any peculiarities. I saw a lot of people bypass my setup because they didn't know how to use the Squeezebox. Also, it would prevent things like opening transports to stop them or driving tube amps without a load.

 

[jjcha]

I was tempted to rent a few rooms for quiet listening ares. But other than something like Tom's HE90 madness, I couldn't justify it.

Honestly, meets have never been about listening anyway. I'm just happy I managed to sucker more than a few people to watch some JPop madness on my notebook computer.

Best,

-Jason

 

[Jasper994]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus Headphone listening should be done in a quiet environment. I've now been to 11 Head-Fi meets and have not encountered anything close to a quiet environment yet. I'm at the point that I don't really bother to listen to anything unless someone tugs on my arm and says "You've got to hear this setup!" Don't get me wrong, I love to socialize. Meeting folks like yourself, Al, and so many others, makes the meets fun. But the listening experiences at meets are simply not fun for me anymore. I've more or less given up which is a shame because I blew the opportunity to compare the ES-1 to the HEV90 and Egmont Signature. I didn't spend any time with the B52 or the RP1000, etc. The only way to resolve the noise issue, IMO, would be to go to the "big show" format where all of the member setups would be operated out of hotel rooms. This way they could be "open" when they wanted to be and if they didn't have anyone to watch the room, they could lock the door and leave a note about when they were coming back. Ideally, we could get one or two floors of contiguous rooms such that members could walk up and down the hallways to check out room after room. For this to work there would have to be considerable room sharing, such that 5 or 6 members would be assigned to one room (other than bozebuttons of course!). At least one of the beds in the room would need to be knocked down and stored. Anyone who has been to one of the major audio shows will know what I'm talking about. It would give local members a chance to set up a speaker rig as well if they so desire. There could still be a central place for vendors on day one, such as the room we used at the national meet. In fact, I think this would be essential to maintain their interest as well as the spirit of the community. So essentially I agree with everything you've said, except that the "quiet room(s)" idea needs to be explored at considerable length. Oh, and trying to accomplish it by having young ladies carry around big "Shhhh" signs won't do it. We need to figure out how to spread the crowd into more rooms and smaller groups.

This is a really good idea. Many of the people in attendance will have rented a room anyway, so we would already have rooms available.

The only thing is... The way you guys are talking, this thing sounds like it should be 3-4 days, not 2.

 

[Asr]

I like the idea of a vendor-only Day 1, that would probably work better.

(1) The venue. I know Head-Fi runs on a limited amount of money, but the rented hotel space was too small. If a lot more people go to the 2007 Meet, we'll definitely need much more space. We're going to need a bigger hotel for 2007. If donations are needed in that aspect, I'd be willing to chip in.

(2) Time of year/weather. I don't know about anyone else, but the rainy/cloudy weather on both days was depressing. I know you can't predict weather in advance, but we do know the climate of certain zones in the U.S., so we should select a good temperate region in the U.S., and have it during either the late spring (April again, or May) or early fall (September or October), in a preferrably scenic place, for the people who haven't been to the state/city before. Also related to the venue: the place should be located near or in a big commercial area, so it's easy for people to find good local food. I'd never been to NY before and having the Meet all the way in Queens/Bayside was kind of a bummer, would've been better to get it a lot closer to Manhattan IMO (yeah I know, Manhattan hotels are probably super-expensive, but Queens was too far away and too residential). For a California-based meet, probably San Francisco, San Diego, or LA (last resort) would be best.

(3) This year's floor layout was good, but it could have been better. Table spacing was cramped and having the vendor tables surround the member tables took away from the members' meet. I think it'd be a better idea for next year to have vendor tables all lined up to split the room in half, with members occupying both halves of the room (vendors down the middle), IF it's going to be a member+vendor day. However, I like the idea of a vendor-only day and in that case, the vendor tables should be arranged in some kind of angle or other irregular pattern (dotted around the room?) so it's easy for people to get in and out. Straight lines do NOT encourage a good flow of people no matter how you try.

(4) IMO, providing dinner wasn't necessary. Not that I'm ungrateful or anything (the food was very good), but the expenses could be better put to something else, and for people like me who wanted to try the local "can't get it anywhere else" cuisine, it was prohibitive. Breaking around lunch and dinner time would be a better option IMO.

(5) Circular tables for the members. Rectangular was (and should be) fine for vendors, but circular tables would be much easier to deal with for a meet of even greater size than this year's, as they facilitate more people and better flow.

(6) To combat the noise situation on the vendor day, I think there should be a warning for everyone to whisper and not talk at normal volume (if that could be feasible!). As for the members' day, people should just be sensible enough to remember that others will be trying to listen to music and keep the noise level down. It's really not that hard to maintain a sense of quiet, tons of offices everywhere everyday do it, so why can't the National Meet?

That's all I can think of for now.

 

[Jahn]

also, have pity on the organizers and give them a nice little block of "me time" on the floor, with a tiny troop of volunteers to spell them at the tables outside! poor jimmy was doing that attendance table almost the entire meet!

 

[Jeff Wong]

I was going to suggest the big show style hotel room approach, but, Wayne has already mentioned it. This is probably the only way to get some serious listening in. A big part of these meets is about meeting each other. I suppose the novelty of that might wear off as time goes on and faces become familiar. Time seems to get sucked up in a vacuum at these things. I was just walking around checking out stuff to take pics and I barely listened to systems and hardly met the people I meant to... it almost seems like 2 days isn't enough.

Getting enough space for an international meet in Manhattan will be nearly impossible cost-wise. Having a combo of vendors in the main room and private satellite setups in hotel rooms might work well, as long as everyone knew who and what was set up where. Maybe a lot of coordination needs to be made beforehand to cut down on redundant gear and showcase certain must-hear systems in rooms (possibly based on polls or requests in the forum in advance.)

 

[Jon.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asr (6) To combat the noise situation on the vendor day <snip>

Cones of silence.


That is all.

 

[Voltron]

Just so that I don't get pegged as the Head-Fi Librarian, I have to say that I am NOT in favor of quiet rules and the like for a large meet like the International Meet (like that Tyll?). I only suggested that some concession or alternative venue can work well to address the concerns of those who really want a more quiet meet environment. For me, it is neither important to have real quiet nor acceptable to force people to whisper and have members "shooshing" other members (although the card girl idea makes it more palatable). It is much more fun to talk to Wayne and all the other people you know or have just met in person for the first time.

I still like the idea of a main room, rather than solely the "big show style" spread out in little rooms, but having one or more extra rooms like the one in SJ last summer can work well. It was not a library in there at any time. People were boisterous but respectable, and mainly there were just fewer people in one space.

I hope this does not come off as defensive because that is not my feeling or intention at all. I just wanted to make my personal preference known. I did way, way more talking [and drinking] than listening at this meet, which is true of the 3 others I have been to or hosted. Let's keep the ideas rolling in, but I do recognize that the organizers and local members involved next time need the latitude to structure it they way they want. In fact, if the next International Meet is in the Bay Area (SF or SJ) then I intend to volunteer on organizing, planning and/or working it. Jahn's post should be taken to heart next time so that there are many more volunteers spreading around the game-day tasks.

Peace. Out.

 

[stevesurf]

I think the use of web cams at certain manufacturers' tables would allow questions to be posed to the experts by those not in attendance, at a specific time of day. It seemed like the folks online enjoyed talking to Matt from Shure, the gentleman from ultrazone and, of course Tyll!

I also think it's an opportunity for the Panel of experts to get some wider and possibly international perspective. I can definitely accomadate a few webcams that will provide a more localized, real-time view of just the manufacturer chatting.

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Geez! That's a great idea! We might be able to think of ways to web-enable the meet so that those who couldn't make it felt like they were participating.

I think both sides of the noise issue are good to think about. It's a "meet" so meeting people in a freindly central conglomeration seems important to me. But there is always complaints at meets that quality listening time was hard to get. Maybe a central area with vendors and general member tables, but rooms set up especially for listening. The rooms could be "themed" ahead of time and maybe people would sign up for certain time slots. Folks like Bozebuttons and Hirsch might want a whole room for themselves and make some high quality listening sessions available for folks. Maybe a room with a few listening stations with one killer source and four or five amps that the source could be switched to;or another station with many DAC switched into one amp, or maybe an amp you bring into the room with you. I think it would be fun to set up a place where we could bring our headphone testing system and measure peoples headphones for them; that would need a quite room (and you still wouldn't get great measurements, but they would be good enough for looking at).

More open space and round tables might work, but those things aren't as intuitive as you might think. I do acknowledge the the Gueens venue was a little tight for the first meet. But there's an old show biz saying: You're better off playing to a packed small house then a half empty big one.

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltron Just so that I don't get pegged as the Head-Fi Librarian, I have to say that I am NOT in favor of quiet rules and the like for a large meet like the International Meet (like that Tyll?).

Along those lines...sort of...is that this is a brainstorming session and one of the main rules of a brainstorming session is that there are no wrong comments as long as they're sincere. Slicing it down to size at some point will happen, but at this early stage we should welcome all honest comments, and not clog this thread with argument or excessive lobbying.

Sorry, just had to say something about that early on.