[bigshot]

We'll let him ask for clarification if he is interested. No need for you to do your Gargamel impression.

 

[dazzerfong]

Hiss sounds like an impedance problem, not a DAC problem.

Hissing is a SNR and noise floor of the amplifier. Your headphone's impedance doesn't really affect this (after all, impedance is just the distribution of voltage and current) but rather its sensitivity does. Higher the sensitivity, more prone to this you are.

Just wanted to correct this for any future readers.

 

[bigshot]

I've been told that impedance problems with IEMs manifest as hiss sometimes and can be corrected with the proper amp. Perhaps it's sensitivity instead. But that might be wrong. I don't have IEMs.

 

[dazzerfong]

I've been told that impedance problems with IEMs manifest as hiss sometimes and can be corrected with the proper amp. Perhaps it's sensitivity instead. But that might be wrong. I don't have IEMs.

That's because low impedance is associated with high sensitivity, but it's not the root cause.

The proper amp will have a good SNR (i.e. good noise floor) at very low voltages/power.

 

[bigshot]

I choose cans that don’t require amping. It’s just another layer of complexity and one more thing to carry. If he wasn’t amping IEMs that needed amping he would get that result, and it wouldn’t be the fault of the player itself, no?

 

[dazzerfong]

I choose cans that don’t require amping. It’s just another layer of complexity and one more thing to carry. If he wasn’t amping IEMs that needed amping he would get that result, and it wouldn’t be the fault of the player itself, no?

You just said you don't use IEMs, and this is a problem almost exclusive to IEMs so that's easier said than done.

 

[bigshot]

Maybe the post I was replying to uses IEMs.

 

[sander99]

Maybe the post I was replying to uses IEMs.

I used different headphones (HD650, and indeed a pair of in ears, but quite standard ones from Sennheiser), and also tried it connected to a normal speaker-amp. As far as I remember it hissed in every scenario. If I had to guess I'd sooner think of some - internal - interference problem.
But look, it was maybe already 7 years ago. It was a cheap Huawei, and a friend gave it to me because his daughter deemed it to be too slow and old for her...
Oh, I found it back in my box full of old phones: Huawei Ascend Y 201.

 

[bigshot]

It might have had some manufacturing defect too. I guess cheap phones can be funky.

 

[dazzerfong]

Phones need to pay attention to grounding as their DAC/amp sections are often very near something that draws and emits a lot of power and interference: antennas and the rest of the SoC. Especially if the SoC handles the audio output, it'll often be 'good enough' rather than 'good'. That's why the LG V-series had such good audio output: it relied on a distinct audio section rather than relying on the SoC's.

 

[bigshot]

Yep. But grounding problems and interference are separate from fidelity. I’m sure if you grounded it properly, the output would sound fine. The problem isn’t the quality of the DAC, it’s the design of the phone itself.

It’s the same with impedance/sensitivity issues. The problem isn’t fidelity, it’s that you’re using the wrong transducers with the wrong amp.

 

[dazzerfong]

Yep. But grounding problems and interference are separate from fidelity. I’m sure if you grounded it properly, the output would sound fine. The problem isn’t the quality of the DAC, it’s the design of the phone itself.

It’s the same with impedance/sensitivity issues. The problem isn’t fidelity, it’s that you’re using the wrong transducers with the wrong amp.

No, it affects fidelity.

DACs and amps don't matter if:
- Impedance is low enough (headphones/IEMs only - speakers is a whole other mess)
- Noise floor is low enough
- Power is sufficient
- FR is flat enough (this is generally the "easiest")
- Grounding/shielding is sufficient to suppress EMI

And the problem is that with some of these, you trade some to get the other. For example, noise floor is often traded for power: that's why some amps have an adjustable gain.

With that many exclusionary clauses, hard to lump them all in as 'all DACs and amps are the same'. That being said, plenty of DACs and amps which satisfy this combination.

Problem is, whether you like to admit it or not, these do affect fidelity and probably affect fidelity the most!

If I may, what is your background? You kinda sound like sales, actually!

 

[reginalb]

No, it affects fidelity.

DACs and amps don't matter if:
- Impedance is low enough (headphones/IEMs only - speakers is a whole other mess)
- Noise floor is low enough
- Power is sufficient
- FR is flat enough (this is generally the "easiest")
- Grounding/shielding is sufficient to suppress EMI

And the problem is that with some of these, you trade some to get the other. For example, noise floor is often traded for power: that's why some amps have an adjustable gain.

With that many exclusionary clauses, hard to lump them all in as 'all DACs and amps are the same'. That being said, plenty of DACs and amps which satisfy this combination.

Problem is, whether you like to admit it or not, these do affect fidelity and probably affect fidelity the most!

If I may, what is your background? You kinda sound like sales, actually!

And for a long time cheap Android phones were made by manufacturers that didn't care. If it had a 3.5mm output that worked, that was good enough. Good audio is trivial to achieve, but for phone manufacturers it doesn't always matter. Having used tons of Android devices, that was mostly resolved. Of course, now a lot of them don't even have a HO.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

A low impedance combined with a high sensitivity will absolutely cause hiss, if you connect it to a powerful amp, regardless of the quality of the amp, even on low gain. In fact some amps now have a special IEM match switch to help prevent that from happening.

Everyone knows I’m not a fan of Bigshot, but he’s not wrong here.

 

[bigshot]

Dazzle it’s just semantics. I’m looking at they why and you’re like ok’ing at the what. It’s all good. It isn’t hard to make an audibly transparent player. You have to dig deep to find one that isn’t. I think currently it would be very difficult to find anything like this.