[LNuneek]

Let me conclude this by saying the AKG K553 and Focal Spirit One S can be had for under 200. THAT is why M50x is no longer king (although i never thought they once were)

Correct me if I'm wrong but is that the Focal HP that's been discontinued? If it's no longer going to be widely available, which Focal never really is as a brand, then there is no point in claiming it as such as most people wouldn't be able to get their hands on a pair.
 
The AKG would also have to take the mainstream by force to take over the REPUTATION of the ATH-M50. We will see if that happens. Have no idea if it's a better HP or not, but it's on my radar. I'd like to hear it. 

 

[cuiter23]

Correct me if I'm wrong but is that the Focal HP that's been discontinued? If it's no longer going to be widely available, which Focal never really is as a brand, then there is no point in claiming it as such as most people wouldn't be able to get their hands on a pair.

The AKG would also have to take the mainstream by force to take over the REPUTATION of the ATH-M50. We will see if that happens. Have no idea if it's a better HP or not, but it's on my radar. I'd like to hear it. 

No, the Spirit One S is still in production. The Spirit One is the pair that has been discontinued.

Ive never heard the K550s but I did hear the K545 (the 550s are supposed to be a step up) and it outclasses the M50x in every single aspect hands down.

 

[LNuneek]

No, the Spirit One S is still in production. The Spirit One is the pair that has been discontinued.

Ive never heard the K550s but I did hear the K545 (the 550s are supposed to be a step up) and it outclasses the M50x in every single aspect hands down.

Ah ok, thanks for clearing that up about about the Focals. 

 

[squallkiercosa]

Just to do a short recap, I listed all the headphones mentioned in this thread (closed back headphones) that can match or simply being a better choice than the M50X with price in mind or SQ wise (Organized according to market price)
 
Cheaper than M50X:
 
M-Audio Q40
Audio-Technica ATH-M40x
NVX XPT100
Brainwavz HM5
KRK KNS8400 
 
Our lovely Audio-Technica ATH-M50x
 
With a higher price tag
 
Audio-Technica ATH-A900X 
Ultrasone HFI-580
Sennheiser Momentum
Beyer DT770
Sony MDR-1R
Shure SRH840
V-moda M100
Focal Spirit S
 
Everytime I'm asked for a recommendation (open back are out of the question) I struggle to find a different choice for the same price (never listened the KRK) so if you ask me, they're still the king.

 

[LNuneek]

 
Everytime I'm asked for a recommendation (open back are out of the question) I struggle to find a different choice for the same price (never listened the KRK) so if you ask me, they're still the king.

Well yeah, and so much of it has to do with preference. For instance, I've seen people recommend something like the Momentums over the M50 and when I got a chance to hear the Momentums I was very disappointed in them. I would be pissed if I bought those off the net for instance without hearing them based on a head fi suggestion as a better alternative to the M50. Same with something like the Sony MDR-1R. Those are just horrible. The thing is there are people that according to their ears, these other choices are better headphones.

 

[cuiter23]

  Well yeah, and so much of it has to do with preference. For instance, I've seen people recommend something like the Momentums over the M50 and when I got a chance to hear the Momentums I was very disappointed in them. I would be pissed if I bought those off the net for instance without hearing them based on a head fi suggestion as a better alternative to the M50. Same with something like the Sony MDR-1R. Those are just horrible. The thing is there are people that according to their ears, these other choices are better headphones.

 
Sound is always very subjective. However, it becomes even more so when you reach TOTL headphones that's when you really choose a headphone due to your sonic preferences as detail differences are so subtle it is sometimes hard/impossible to tell. 
 
But as for M50s, there are many headphones out there cheaper or slightly more expensive that are just objectively better without a question. For example, the Momentums have detail that's much easier to be retrieved in comparison to the M50s. Objectively, the momentums are a better headphone and its quite easy to tell. However, whether you like it or not, the headphone is still "technically" superior maybe just not to you
 
(I'm just using the momentums as an example btw)

 

[sonitus mirus]

   
Sound is always very subjective. However, it becomes even more so when you reach TOTL headphones that's when you really choose a headphone due to your sonic preferences as detail differences are so subtle it is sometimes hard/impossible to tell. 
 
But as for M50s, there are many headphones out there cheaper or slightly more expensive that are just objectively better without a question. For example, the Momentums have detail that's much easier to be retrieved in comparison to the M50s. Objectively, the momentums are a better headphone and its quite easy to tell. However, whether you like it or not, the headphone is still "technically" superior maybe just not to you
 
(I'm just using the momentums as an example btw)

 
You opinion is nearly always subjective.  The M50 is objectively superior to the the Shure SE425 in regards to frequency response.  (15-28kHz vs 20-19kHz)  Whether which pair of headphones sounds better is subjective, with or without question.

 

[cuiter23]

You opinion is nearly always subjective.  The M50 is objectively superior to the the Shure SE425 in regards to frequency response.  (15-28kHz vs 20-19kHz)  Whether which pair of headphones sounds better is subjective, with or without question.

Your argument holds no ground whatsoever. You are comparing an IEM to a full size headphone. I have no idea why you used the frequency response. What I mean by "objectively" better is that the headphone driver is more capable in every aspect. This is identifiable by the human ear. By using frequency response, you could argue the M50x sounds better than an LCD-3 (just an example) just because it has a wider frequency band. You should also know that Japanese brands tend to overexaggerate these frequencies on their headphones.

You can argue that you personally prefer a less detailed and overall less competent headphone and that's what you "subjectively" prefer but that is another topic outside the scope of this discussion.

 

[sonitus mirus]

What I mean by "objectively" better is that the headphone driver is more capable in every aspect. This is identifiable by the human ear. 

 
The human ear is subjective, and whether a sound is better or not depends on the brain attached to it.  What objective measurement aspect are you suggesting that the "headphone driver is more capable"?  I provided an objective measurement parameter in my previous reply.  

 

[WhoIsThis]

  Just to do a short recap, I listed all the headphones mentioned in this thread (closed back headphones) that can match or simply being a better choice than the M50X with price in mind or SQ wise (Organized according to market price)
 
Cheaper than M50X:
 
M-Audio Q40
Audio-Technica ATH-M40x
NVX XPT100
Brainwavz HM5
KRK KNS8400 
 
Our lovely Audio-Technica ATH-M50x
 
With a higher price tag
 
Audio-Technica ATH-A900X 
Ultrasone HFI-580
Sennheiser Momentum
Beyer DT770
Sony MDR-1R
Shure SRH840
V-moda M100
Focal Spirit S
 
Everytime I'm asked for a recommendation (open back are out of the question) I struggle to find a different choice for the same price (never listened the KRK) so if you ask me, they're still the king.

 
The problem I see is that among the cheaper options, even though the ATH-M50X has gone up in price (it used to be as low as $100 USD on sale), there are no options decisively better in all categories.
 
Among the competitors, you could add the SRH440.
 
The HM5 arguably is the closest one (vastly better soundstage for example), but it also has durability issues (the headbands tend to crack).

 

[cuiter23]

The human ear is subjective, and whether a sound is better or not depends on the brain attached to it.  What objective measurement aspect are you suggesting that the "headphone driver is more capable"?  I provided an objective measurement parameter in my previous reply.  

If you are saying that you subjectively prefer the M50 to an LCD-3 sure I cant argue with that. But the bottom line is that the LCD is the better headphone all values equal.

I responded to your frequency response parameter. Just because it has a wider bandwidth it does not make the headphone objectively better. The frequency response graphs are used as a marketing tool at best and ATH, Sony among other japanese brands tend to pull these numbers from thin air.

 

[squallkiercosa]

 
The problem I see is that among the cheaper options, even though the ATH-M50X has gone up in price (it used to be as low as $100 USD on sale), there are no options decisively better in all categories.
 
Among the competitors, you could add the SRH440.

Exactly. There are no other options within the price bracket leaving aside the HM5 (I tried only once, cannot be objective and I didn't like the srh840 at all to be honest) the M50 sound is inoffensive and engaging enough to not be dismissed. 
 
Although I have to admit, I'm using the Momentums nowadays for almost everything. You can buy them refurbished on amazon for less than the M50X (only if your ears are not big) 

 

[WhoIsThis]

  Exactly. There are no other options within the price bracket leaving aside the HM5 (I tried only once, cannot be objective and I didn't like the srh840 at all to be honest) the M50 sound is inoffensive and engaging enough to not be dismissed. 
 
Although I have to admit, I'm using the Momentums nowadays for almost everything. You can buy them refurbished on amazon for less than the M50X (only if your ears are not big) 

 
I suppose both the SRH 440 and SRH 840 are viable contenders, although the SRH 840 is probably closer price wise.
 
The problem I find with the Momentum is that the cans are not the most comfortable in the world for long listening sessions with larger than average ears.  I'd rather have a full sized set of cans that can fold (the Momentums cannot fold so they aren't that much smaller). Audio quality is good though on the Momentum.
 
 
Another thing that has been brought up a couple of times is durability as I indicated. HM5 has issues with the headband cracking. I'm not sure how well the Momentum would stand up to repeated abuse if you take it outside though.
 
V-moda XS might be also worth adding to the list, although I am not sure the audio quality is a rival to the ATH-M50X - I have not listened to the XS, but V-Moda phones are historically bass biased and the highs tend to be lacking. They are very durable though.

 

[LNuneek]

   
I suppose both the SRH 440 and SRH 840 are viable contenders, although the SRH 840 is probably closer price wise.
 
The problem I find with the Momentum is that the cans are not the most comfortable in the world for long listening sessions with larger than average ears.  I'd rather have a full sized set of cans that can fold (the Momentums cannot fold so they aren't that much smaller). Audio quality is good though on the Momentum.
 
 
Another thing that has been brought up a couple of times is durability as I indicated. HM5 has issues with the headband cracking. I'm not sure how well the Momentum would stand up to repeated abuse if you take it outside though.
 
V-moda XS might be also worth adding to the list, although I am not sure the audio quality is a rival to the ATH-M50X - I have not listened to the XS, but V-Moda phones are historically bass biased and the highs tend to be lacking. They are very durable though.

The Momentums also have a very clean sterile boring sound to them like most Senns, which some people don't like. Another thing I noticed about them is that they cannot handle the kicks and bass of a genre like Hip Hop, again like most Senns. Which leaves them really only good for less drum & bass-centric genres of music. The Momentums are the inverse Beats By Dre for people who think they have more class. An over priced headphone that one only really buys for it's style and to suit particular genres with no bass and no strong drum impact. 

 

[Mad Max]

Well then, as far as ~$200 and under contenders are concerned, there's also M-Audio's HDH50, AKG's K545, and Sennheiser's HD7DJ if you go refurb or something.  All excellent headphones.
 
 
Quote: LNuneek

 ... a very clean sterile boring sound to them like most Senns...

 
Try Sony's SA5000/3000 or the ancient ATH-2 ortho for some truly sterile-sounding headphones, no on-ear/over-ear Sennheiser comes even remotely close by lightyears, sEnns are generally quite dynamic and musical.  Admittedly, I haven't heard the over-ear Momentum, and I'm pretty sure it isn't the exception.