[estreeter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by revenge /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh, and regarding the Wadia Itransport and comparisons with high end players - spare me. I've just sold mine, together with the VDC 9.0 CI Audio power supply. I have a Naim CDX2 and a Lavry DA10. Wadia & Ipod & Lavry playing ALAC files (ripped using a Plextor Premium at 1X speed) vs the original CDs on my Naim - no competition here. Not even close!

Fantastic post, revenge, but for brevity I've abridged it in order to respond to your comments re the Wadia. You've highlighted the fact that most of us simply dont have kit like your Naim to make comparisons - anything coming from a transport into a reasonable DAC will almost certainly sound better than the results we have had straight from the iPod. It would seem that you agree with the What Hi-Fi reviewer and Vinnie from Redwine Audio doesnt - I think these are both valid, but I still want to hear one of the transports in action for myself. I prefer the laptop-based solution for my bedroom rig, but all digital sources interest me.

Re your comments on how good the Classic sounds, you are probably aware that there have been two battlefronts in this forum since the Sept 09 release of the Classic and the new gen Touch:

1. the Wolfson diehards who simply wont accept that anything with a Cirrus DAC can possibly be any good.
2. Owners of the 3GS iPhone / 3G Touch, many of whom dislike the Classic

The interesting thing, for me, is the wild range of responses each iPod gets from various people, while others (including sales people..) will tell you they all sound the same ! You simply don't get the same level of emotion going from one model Cowon or Sony to another, and I have *never* seen two Sony X or Cowon S9 owners brawl over the sound of the player the way iPod owners do. I know of no other brand where people are hanging onto a 4 year old player because it had the 'right' DAC chip - none.

Finally, I absolutely agree with you re the 'default EQ' from the factory, and this is where I often get into some humdingers with iPod owners who try to tell me that their player is 'neutral' or 'flat'. Apple Corp is, first and foremost, a marketing company that sells technology : all else follows from there.

Cheers,

estreeter

 

[revenge]

To be fair, the iTransport doesn't sound bad at all. On the contrary, connected to a good DAC it is indeed, without a shadow of a doubt, the best sounding dock for an Ipod.
However there are two problems. First of all, although a Lavry or a Benchmark raises the SQ bar quite a lot, our high end Ipod based transport still sounds like... an Ipod, a tad unnatural, digital, muffled - it misses that high end sparkle, air, warmth, texture, timber, fluidity and overall resolution of an expensive CD player. A while ago I didn't understand when a friend told me, about a certain DAC, that although significantly improving the sound, retained the essential sound charateristics of the transport. Now I know what he meant, although using a different DAC (mine is a Lavry DA10). The other problem with iTransport is the high level of jitter. Lavry is reputed for excellent jitter rejection and yet the issue is more than obvious with the iTransport. In a high end setup it's almost unbearable.
Now I bought this dock, like many of you, hoping to turn my portable into a convenient high quality source for my main system. While providing a debatable sound quality, it has also failed to tick the "convenience" box. You can't tell if the dock is on or off, if the Ipod sends data or not, there are no switches, displays or lights of any sort. The remote is horrible and, except for next/previous/play/pause, it's useless. Plus if you accidentally press the "mode" button, you have to undock and redock the Ipod to restart the digital transmission. How convenient is that?
The good news is that Logitech is about to release the product that will change everything. Squeezebox Touch doesn't only stream music from a computer, like the previous Squeezebox iterations, it also hosts any USB storage device. Considering the size, price, wide format support - including FLAC, ALAC and ogg, the digital output (and we all know the quality of a Squeezebox as a digital source) and the big colour display, this will be the best midrange digital source fullstop. Put all your music on an external hard drive, without worrying about formats, conversions, compatibilities and so on, select whatever you like on the large touch screen colour display and that's it, enjoy it in digital, bit perfect quality. On top of that, Squeezebox Touch will also play internet radio stations. Who will ever go back to an Ipod or pay the ridiculous price for an iTransport?

 

[estreeter]

Wow - thanks for the heads-up on the Squeezebox Touch : I wasnt even aware of it. Most local retailers stock every Logitech product *except* the Squeezebox, and I had thought the 'serious' audiophiles were more interested in Sooloos for muti-room audio. I will see what I can dig up on the new unit.

 

[nwkid178]

I posted earlier in this thread and I am just giving an update:
I LOVE MY 2009 CLASSIC!!!! I got rid of my 120 Classic and kept my old case (fits fine as the new 160 is single platter/same-size) Currently as I type this am listening to my Classic with LOD, and Total Airhead, and W3's and I am loving every moment! As far as the headphone jack, I did hear a slight overall improvement over my older Classic, the music is brighter and instruments are more distinguished, also maybe this is just me, but when using LOD and amp, there is less background noise(hiss) from the 09 Classic than the 08 version. Also if anyone was wondering, this Ipod works 1000% with J River Media Center without any problems at all. I keep all my music on my Classic as ALAC, although I may entertain the idea of using J River to encode on the fly to 320 cbr MP3... as I only use this Ipod as a portable.

 

[estreeter]

This thread has really turned around - the early posts were largely very critical of the 2009 Classic, then we had a few where folk claimed they had returned their 'faulty' Classic and the replacement was much better, now its almost entirely favourable. Apple need to put some time into ensuring that there is no such thing as a 'bad batch', regardless of where a model is actually manufactured.

 

[revenge]

To conclude my report, I went back to Tesco tonight. Again the main contestants have been the new Touch and Classic but I have also briefly auditioned a Sony NWZE443B and the new Nano. Sony - quite pleasantly sounding with simple recordings with few instruments. But as soon as things get complicated in the mix, it turns into sonic havoc, like T60 from Iriver. Heavy distortion, poor separation (I'd rather say none but I'm trying to avoid radical opinions) between instruments, an overall muffled sound. Nothing much to write about the Nano either. Poor resolution (but better than the Sony), flat, bidimensional sound, an amplifier section leaving much to be desired, with significant hiss and limited dynamics.
Now back to the main attractions. Comparing the Classic and the Touch, an almost forgotten personal experience comes to mind. A pair of AKG K701 on a Meier Corda Prehead I have owned for a while. On low gain, the Prehead sounded a bit like the Touch - refined, laid back, detailed but lacking in depth, bass and overall musicality. The high gain setting, I'm sure you've guessed by now, sounded much like the Classic: plenty of bass, excellent soundstage, and even if you'd have missed the ultimate detail or purer presentation of the low gain setting, the sound was much more realistic and enjoyable. Back to the two Ipods, I would indeed say that, although the Touch is a tad more refined and has a better resolution, it also sounds flat, sterile and analytical compared to the bold, energetic presentation of the new Classic. I'm not sure if much has changed in the DAC section compared to the previous generation, but I'm certain the amplifier section has suffered a significant upgrade, almost to the point where, using midrange headphones like my UM3X, I no longer see the need for an external amplifier. Moreover, while on the Touch there is still a significant level of hiss at higher levels with my Westones, the Classic is almost dead silent up to the max volume. Obviously the new amplifier handles low impedance, high sensitivity headphones much, much better.
Now in some respects I might be wrong since I couldn't use any of my recordings on the two players. But considering both had the same playlists loaded and since I knew some of the tunes (like the Yo-Yo-Ma recordings) quite well, I think it's fair to say my findings were quite accurate. At the end of the day I opened my wallet and bought a new Classic. Hopefully it will sound every bit as good as the demo unit.
Now, to conclude, here's what the new Classic has to offer compared to the previous generation: 30% more space squeezed in the same size, much better handling of the high sensitivity/ low impedance headphones, better sound quality, almost on par with the Iphone, all for the same price. These are the undeniable facts and anything else is irrelevant.
Great find, Elfary! Thanks for sharing it.

 

[revenge]

BTW - could this http://discussions.apple.com/thread....readID=2223414 be possible? No way, too good to be true! Unfortunately I don't have time to format and play with mine tonight so I can't confirm it.

 

[Smirk]

Can someone compare the SQ of Ipod Classic 7th gen with Ipod Touch 3G? Both are praised for a great sound but I've never actually found a decent comparison of two.

 

[estreeter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smirk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can someone compare the SQ of Ipod Classic 7th gen with Ipod Touch 3G? Both are praised for a great sound but I've never actually found a decent comparison of two.

The key phrase here is 'decent comparison'. The split was usually straight down the middle between those who loved the Touch and despised the Classic or vice-versa. Then the posts started where folk who have both claimed that they couldnt hear a great deal of difference from one to the other, so I wish you luck with that.

 

[Smirk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreeter /img/forum/go_quote.gif The key phrase here is 'decent comparison'. The split was usually straight down the middle between those who loved the Touch and despised the Classic or vice-versa. Then the posts started where folk who have both claimed that they couldnt hear a great deal of difference from one to the other, so I wish you luck with that.

I recall someone here writing he returned his 2009 Classic and kept Touch 3G, however the reasoning was very scarce, starting and ending at "sounded better for me". Indeed, it's like hit-or-miss...

 

[Wingsabr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smirk /img/forum/go_quote.gif I recall someone here writing he returned his 2009 Classic and kept Touch 3G, however the reasoning was very scarce, starting and ending at "sounded better for me". Indeed, it's like hit-or-miss...

Or just subjective listening

 

[BBY03evo]

Anyone compare the new classic to an imod yet??

 

[elfary]

Quote:

Originally Posted by revenge /img/forum/go_quote.gif To conclude my report, I went back to Tesco tonight. Again the main contestants have been the new Touch and Classic but I have also briefly auditioned a Sony NWZE443B and the new Nano. Sony - quite pleasantly sounding with simple recordings with few instruments. But as soon as things get complicated in the mix, it turns into sonic havoc, like T60 from Iriver. Heavy distortion, poor separation (I'd rather say none but I'm trying to avoid radical opinions) between instruments, an overall muffled sound. Nothing much to write about the Nano either. Poor resolution (but better than the Sony), flat, bidimensional sound, an amplifier section leaving much to be desired, with significant hiss and limited dynamics. Now back to the main attractions. Comparing the Classic and the Touch, an almost forgotten personal experience comes to mind. A pair of AKG K701 on a Meier Corda Prehead I have owned for a while. On low gain, the Prehead sounded a bit like the Touch - refined, laid back, detailed but lacking in depth, bass and overall musicality. The high gain setting, I'm sure you've guessed by now, sounded much like the Classic: plenty of bass, excellent soundstage, and even if you'd have missed the ultimate detail or purer presentation of the low gain setting, the sound was much more realistic and enjoyable. Back to the two Ipods, I would indeed say that, although the Touch is a tad more refined and has a better resolution, it also sounds flat, sterile and analytical compared to the bold, energetic presentation of the new Classic. I'm not sure if much has changed in the DAC section compared to the previous generation, but I'm certain the amplifier section has suffered a significant upgrade, almost to the point where, using midrange headphones like my UM3X, I no longer see the need for an external amplifier. Moreover, while on the Touch there is still a significant level of hiss at higher levels with my Westones, the Classic is almost dead silent up to the max volume. Obviously the new amplifier handles low impedance, high sensitivity headphones much, much better. Now in some respects I might be wrong since I couldn't use any of my recordings on the two players. But considering both had the same playlists loaded and since I knew some of the tunes (like the Yo-Yo-Ma recordings) quite well, I think it's fair to say my findings were quite accurate. At the end of the day I opened my wallet and bought a new Classic. Hopefully it will sound every bit as good as the demo unit. Now, to conclude, here's what the new Classic has to offer compared to the previous generation: 30% more space squeezed in the same size, much better handling of the high sensitivity/ low impedance headphones, better sound quality, almost on par with the Iphone, all for the same price. These are the undeniable facts and anything else is irrelevant. Great find, Elfary! Thanks for sharing it.

You are welcome

But the first ones to point out that the 2009 Classic sounded really good where 3X0 and Pfillion on the JH13s appreciation thread. I had just sold my 2008 Classic and was waiting for the new 2009 Classic to arrive from New York so i just brought the issue to this subforum. The night i got in just 20 seconds of listening to it i knew instantly that it did not sound as the 2008 Classic... and the rest is history.

I'm really loving my 2009 Apples (Classic and 3GS).

 

[Wingsabr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elfary /img/forum/go_quote.gif You are welcome But the first ones to point out that the 2009 Classic sounded really good where 3X0 and Pfillion on the JH13s appreciation thread. I had just sold my 2008 Classic and was waiting for the new 2009 Classic to arrive from New York so i just brought the issue to this subforum. The night i got in just 20 seconds of listening to it i knew instantly that it did not sound as the 2008 Classic... and the rest is history. I'm really loving my 2009 Apples (Classic and 3GS).

Loving my 2k9 apples also

 

[TheMarchingMule]

I really hope you guys are right about this. I find my current iPod Classic (got the oldest version of it) to be extremely flat, dull,boring, and lifeless. Maybe I'll come back to this "refreshed" model in the future, once I sell my current Classic