7Hz Impressions & Discussion
Jul 6, 2023 at 7:06 AM Post #4,113 of 4,247
My question basically, what is the "enough" power to make the Timeless preform at he's best.

If more than 500mW are needed I will have to end up buying the M15S... If not maybe the M11S is enough or even maybe the Hiby R6 Gen3 or Pro...

@Dsnuts can you give some help please?
To me the balanced output on the Sony ZX300 and WM1Z daps are enough
 
Jul 6, 2023 at 10:02 AM Post #4,114 of 4,247
My question basically, what is the "enough" power to make the Timeless preform at he's best.

If more than 500mW are needed I will have to end up buying the M15S... If not maybe the M11S is enough or even maybe the Hiby R6 Gen3 or Pro...

@Dsnuts can you give some help please?
Most DAPs nowadays will have plenty of power to drive power hungry IEMs in balanced but its more a matter of, if you want something that has plenty of power for even most full sized CANs and anything IEM or bud wise with enough ballz to drive all of it with plenty of power. The great aspect of the M15S if you read my review of them is that it has 5 gain levels. Most DAPs will have 2-3 at the most. This allows for different levels of power and noise floor levels able to drive the most sensitive to the most power hungry within the same player.

Its not a cheap DAP but the SQ and its power is what that player is all about. If you want a minor side grade type of sound and power that is just good enough for you or do you want something more substantial that is question you need to answer for yourself. Even Fiios $200 Bluetooth Dac/Amp BTR7 will be able to drive any IEM with ease in balanced. But when it comes to that combo of a higher end sound quality and higher end power? That will require a higher price tag unfortunately.

I would suggest you read up on all the new players and their power and sound ability to make a good solid choice on a source and go from there. The one good aspect of the modern DAP is that just about all of them will be IEM friendly minus the cheaper generic chinese obscure DAP that has a 5 -10 ohm out impedence. ( Aka not so IEM friendly, and people don't know it.) Go with the trusted brands and you will be relatively safe from something like that.
 
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Jul 6, 2023 at 11:39 AM Post #4,115 of 4,247
Most DAPs nowadays will have plenty of power to drive power hungry IEMs in balanced but its more a matter of, if you want something that has plenty of power for even most full sized CANs and anything IEM or bud wise with enough ballz to drive all of it with plenty of power. The great aspect of the M15S if you read my review of them is that it has 5 gain levels. Most DAPs will have 2-3 at the most. This allows for different levels of power and noise floor levels able to drive the most sensitive to the most power hungry within the same player.

Its not a cheap DAP but the SQ and its power is what that player is all about. If you want a minor side grade type of sound and power that is just good enough for you or do you want something more substantial that is question you need to answer for yourself. Even Fiios $200 Bluetooth Dac/Amp BTR7 will be able to drive any IEM with ease in balanced. But when it comes to that combo of a higher end sound quality and higher end power? That will require a higher price tag unfortunately.

I would suggest you read up on all the new players and their power and sound ability to make a good solid choice on a source and go from there. The one good aspect of the modern DAP is that just about all of them will be IEM friendly minus the cheaper generic chinese obscure DAP that has a 5 -10 ohm out impedence. ( Aka not so IEM friendly, and people don't know it.) Go with the trusted brands and you will be relatively safe from something like that.
Thanks for your answer.
The only headphone that I have is a Sennheiser HD580 that I think are relatively easy to drive when compared with other headphones.
My objective was to know if my main concern for fully drive the Timeless should be power, and what should be the minimum power I should consider in a DAP, or if I should also have another concerns like impedance, and if so what would be the values to look up.
 
Jul 6, 2023 at 1:56 PM Post #4,116 of 4,247
True but like I said impedence should not be an issue as long as you stick with Hibby, Shanling, Ibasso, and Fiio It is the much lesser known brands that use some crazy higher impedence for phone out that causes a skew for more sensitive IEMs or 16 Ohm and less IEMs. Modern well manufactured DAPS should have around 1 Ohm or less in single ended and it is usually double that when used in balanced. So something that has 5 ohm out if it has balanced will be more like 10 ohms out. This is not good for IEMs at all.

Timeless is not going to need the 1.2W@32Ohms the M15S can do. Something like 320mW@32ohms should be plenty of power to drive them to full capacity. Power output for the BTR7.

I remember this pic of a post on the UTWS5 thread that uses a dongle on the Timeless to drive them. Thing only puts out 33mW@32ohms
1688665839886.png

Something like the M15S for the Timeless will be a bit overkill but thats certainly not a bad thing to have around.
 
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Jul 6, 2023 at 2:53 PM Post #4,117 of 4,247
True but like I said impedence should not be an issue as long as you stick with Hibby, Shanling, Ibasso, and Fiio It is the much lesser known brands that use some crazy higher impedence for phone out that causes a skew for more sensitive IEMs or 16 Ohm and less IEMs. Modern well manufactured DAPS should have around 1 Ohm or less in single ended and it is usually double that when used in balanced. So something that has 5 ohm out if it has balanced will be more like 10 ohms out. This is not good for IEMs at all.

Timeless is not going to need the 1.2W@32Ohms the M15S can do. Something like 320mW@32ohms should be plenty of power to drive them to full capacity. Power output for the BTR7.

I remember this pic of a post on the UTWS5 thread that uses a dongle on the Timeless to drive them. Thing only puts out 33mW@32ohms
1688665839886.png

Something like the M15S for the Timeless will be a bit overkill but thats certainly not a bad thing to have around.
Thanks for your feedback!
I would love to have the M15S but it's more than I would like to invest in a DAP.
I will continue to read reviews off DAPs in the forum, but right now the main choices are between the M11S and the Hiby R6 Gen3...
 
Jul 6, 2023 at 4:32 PM Post #4,118 of 4,247
Guys that have the 7Hz Timeless, what are the specs (power mW, impedance, etc) that a source needs to have to really extract the best out of your Timeless? Is just raw power (the more mW the better) or are there other conditions?
I'm in the market for a DAP and my budget can be stretched to 900$ TOP!
For instance, does having a M15s with all that power represents any improvement over say a Hiby R6 Pro II?
Same question for the M11s Vs the R6 Gen3... Or despite the lack of power, the Hiby DAPs sound better? This is not close to this two brands...

Share your knowledge sirs!
Best regards!
I don't think the concern will be with the amount of power that will be needed to drive these, because the impedance is pretty low, and the sensitivity is pretty decently high. What will be the deciding factor is how much amperage that your source can output. This is true of all planar drivers. On an orthodynamic driver, the voltage output will stay the same from the source. It will be the amperage draw that increases and decreases as you change frequencies and volume levels (power requirements).

The problem with this is that the amperage numbers are not posted with the specs of most planar head gear.

But as for the voltage requirements, it would look like this (to 110dBSPL):

  • .24VRMS
  • 3.98mW
  • 16.4mA (this is the minimum needed, with this I like to have at least double the amount available for swings)
As you can see, they aren't hard to drive on paper at all. In practice, they can (like all planars) be a bit more tricky to know if you are properly exciting/damping the driver or not. Having said that, I don't believe that they are that hard to drive, though I believe that they scale with more power. I can tell a definite difference between the sound using the DX300 and 3 different amp cards. Is that the signature/synergy of the amp cards coming through? I dunno'. 🤷‍♂️

Also, keep in mind that most portable (battery operated) devices aren't capable of a lot of amperage draw because DD and BA head gear only requires a fixed amount, and they don't move from there. Just some stuff to think about. :)
 
Jul 10, 2023 at 7:14 PM Post #4,119 of 4,247
Timeless OG update: I’m in the process of tip-rolling them right now. The stock tips did nothing for me. I switched almost immediately to the S&S tips. The Timeless has relatively short nozzles that come off of the shell at an odd angle (at least for my ears) so they’re tricky to get a seal with. The S&S tips work well because they’re longish, but I didn’t like the sound with them. They made the sound seem too distant.

Switched to (counter intuitively) Spring Tips and I was actually able to get a seal with the XLs, but as expected they felt too unstable in my ears. They’re shallow fitting and like the S&S they sounded distant.

Finally I put AZLA SednaEarFit Max tips on them and this seems to be a good match for me. I get a nice tight seal and they sound close and engaging again. The Max seems to enhance the bass some as well. They’re not too long or short. A Goldilocks match for me.

Overall I’m increasingly impressed by the set as I listen to them over extended periods. They really do have an excellent, reference-like tune. The main thing I notice right now is the crisp detail. They’re not as sharp as the S12. They have a slightly more controlled treble.

I know I’m late to the game. This is the last major planar set I wanted to add. So far it lives up to its reputation as the cream of the crop.
It’s been a while since I listened to the timeless but I recall really enjoying using the black final type e tips for them, the treble which I had at first found silibant became a non issue for me and the bass really slammed with them
 
Jul 10, 2023 at 9:19 PM Post #4,120 of 4,247
It’s been a while since I listened to the timeless but I recall really enjoying using the black final type e tips for them, the treble which I had at first found silibant became a non issue for me and the bass really slammed with them
That’s what I’m using as well
 
Jul 10, 2023 at 9:48 PM Post #4,121 of 4,247
It’s been a while since I listened to the timeless but I recall really enjoying using the black final type e tips for them, the treble which I had at first found silibant became a non issue for me and the bass really slammed with them
I agree, I found that the Final tips were best for me as well. Things sounded more natural and the notes weightier with fuller bass slam. All of the tips that came with the Timeless (AE) didn't sound that great.
 
Jul 22, 2023 at 12:47 PM Post #4,122 of 4,247
BA68E359-C733-4651-910E-067086B12E1A.jpeg
55B72BD8-66E9-413B-A39F-8AB7F92318FD.jpeg
Black x Gold Legato coming soon.
They’re sleek!
 

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