6922 Tube Review - 17 Top 6922 6N23P E88CC CCa 7308 E188CC tubes

[rb2013]

  10/20/15 at 5:41am

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  Still can't beat my Siemens and Telefunken CCa's. Not even close.

 
 
Hi,
 
We have Siemens CCa in several DPs. The internal and external consensus was that the General
Electric 5670 sounded nicer in that system. Of course, sound quality is subjective and none more so
than between different tubes as they most definitely sound different - between the good ones, not
a straight "X is better Y." And we paid GBP250 for the Siemens CCa.
 
For hardcore tube afficianos. Read only if you care about the underpinnings, not just the label.
Warning: Spoiler! Black Plate vs Grey Plate (Click to show)

 

http://www.tubemaze.info/tubes-black-gray-plates/

The CCa Valve uses a standard grey anode (plate) where the GE 5670 uses a carbonized nickel 'black plate' anode.

The black anode structure is a carbon layer over the nickel of the anode. The grey anode structure goes back to the German WW2 war effort, when nickel anodes were phased out for a steel/aluminium compound creating the 'grey plate.'

There are very real benefits in performance for 'black plate' Valves over the common later 'grey plate,' but the process is more elaborate and more expensive. So by the 1960's 'black plate' Valves had become rare as rocking horse droppings and were generally reserved for defense applications where budget is not an issue and not for general radio/communication/consumer use where the pennies are always counted.

So the CCa has a grey anode structure, with gold gridwire and gold-plated pins.

The GE5670 has a black anode structure with gold gridwire and the pins are plain.

Electrically the two are rather close, though the GE5670 has a slightly higher transconductance and slightly higher gain at any given operating point, which often (but not always) translates into a sound that gives more subjective dynamics and more detail.

Nowadays where a Valve is in the market as both 'black plate' and 'grey plate' type, the black plate version is almost invariably rated higher for sound quality than the grey plate version and commands a hefty price premium. Just check out the typical prices at places like Tube Store et al.

Sorry to sound all nerdy but our AMR roots means we are rather fanatical about all things audio and Valves/Tubes are no exception.




 


 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/784809/ifi-nos6922-valve-tube-upgrade-set-new-product-announcement

 

[kolkoo]

I've actually gone down the rabbit hole with some 5670/2C51 tubes already:
 
I've got two pairs based on reviews that should be in the top 3 of 2C51, I'm not sure how these would perform in a DAC but in my Lyr 2 they sound good, yet did not beat any of my favorites 6DJ8/6922:
 
1) LM Ericsson - https://tubeworldexpress.com/products/jw-2c51-396a-western-electric-kuhl-tube-1959-best-single
 
2) Tesla 6CC42 Pinched Waists
 
 
They still sound great however considering price to sound ratio.
Have not tried WE396A but might do so in the near future.

 

[rb2013]

  I've actually gone down the rabbit hole with some 5670/2C51 tubes already:
 
I've got two pairs based on reviews that should be in the top 3 of 2C51, I'm not sure how these would perform in a DAC but in my Lyr 2 they sound good, yet did not beat any of my favorites 6DJ8/6922:
 
1) LM Ericsson - https://tubeworldexpress.com/products/jw-2c51-396a-western-electric-kuhl-tube-1959-best-single
 
2) Tesla 6CC42 Pinched Waists
 
 
They still sound great however considering price to sound ratio.
Have not tried WE396A but might do so in the near future.

I have some WE396A but need adapters for the different pinouts.
 
Did you try the iFi version with the noise reduction?

 

[kolkoo]

 
I have some WE396A but need adapters for the different pinouts.
 
Did you try the iFi version with the noise reduction?

Nope I did not know about them. I used these (were linked by somebody from schiit in some other thread) - www.ebay.com/itm/191636111735
They worked pretty great and I have no complaints about them. The tubes also fit really tight into them and they don't fit super tight into the sockets. So it's easy to remove them along with the tubes.

 

[rb2013]

  Nope I did not know about them. I used these (were linked by somebody from schiit in some other thread) - www.ebay.com/itm/191636111735
They worked pretty great and I have no complaints about them. The tubes also fit really tight into them and they don't fit super tight into the sockets. So it's easy to remove them along with the tubes.

Thanks will give those a try - nice part about the original Lyr - AC heaters - so a wider assortment of tubes.

 

[r2muchstuff]

"Gold plated 5670 6n3 WE396A TO ECC88 6922 6DJ8 tube adapter" (www.ebay.com/itm/191636111735) arrived today.
 
Thanks to another Head-fier

, I have a matched set of 6N3P-E Reflektor - 1986 installed in the Valhalla 2.
 
First listen, after a 30 min. warm up, sounds "dang good" but of course they need more burn time, there is much potential here.
 
On play for the afternoon/evening plus, as a bonus, the Beyer T90 gets more burn
 
Later,
r2

 

[grizzlybeast]

So I have had the Gold lions in my tube amp. 
 
Part of the forwardness, upper midrange forwardness, and dynamics was due to those tubes. They are clear, and transparent. The soundstage has some good height to it it seems but not a lot of width. A little bright or something but not as mellow as the Amperex USN CEP 6922 and not as wide. The amperex sounds warmer, with a warm hue down low and is less bright and forward. The Amperex can earn my preference on some songs and it seems more articulate even though is is more mellow. There is a warmness about it though that seems less clear at first. My rig is pretty aggressive so it doesn't need anymore dynamics and these are more mellow than the Gold lions and sounds more natural so far. But I really like the Gold lions transparency.  
 
Def not done. I feel I have just begun down a rabbit trail now. 

 

[MWSVette]

  ... 
 
Def not done. I feel I have just begun down a rabbit trail now. 

 
 
You have no idea...  

 

[rb2013]

   
 
You have no idea...  

Just reading on the Woo WA2 tube thread - @billerb1's comments on the Tele ECC188's!  Herleen Bill has gone German! 
 
He must have posted a thousand posts on the superiority of the dutch glass.  I really love the Tele E188CC as you can see from my rankings - way more then even the Amperex PW's.
 
But I can see why some might like the PW's euphonic warmth - but for him to go from Herleen to Munich - that's quiet a leap.  Maybe will land back in Saratov.
 
If you haven't read this:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/393811/woo-wa2-tube-rolling-recommendations/660#post_12707452
 
Even changed his flag avatar to the German one.

 

 

[billerb1]

  Just reading on the Woo WA2 tube thread - @billerb1's comments on the Tele ECC188's!  Herleen Bill has gone German! 
 
He must have posted a thousand posts on the superiority of the dutch glass.  I really love the Tele E188CC as you can see from my rankings - way more then even the Amperex PW's.
 
But I can see why some might like the PW's euphonic warmth - but for him to go from Herleen to Munich - that's quiet a leap.  Maybe will land back in Saratov.
 
If you haven't read this:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/393811/woo-wa2-tube-rolling-recommendations/660#post_12707452
 
Even changed his flag avatar to the German one.

 

 
Roberto !!!!!!  Don't  get me wrong.  I still loves me my Pinched Waists and my Miniwatt E188CC's...BUT these Telefunken E188CC's have a magic synergy with the GEC 6AS7G's I just switched to in my Woo WA2.  Such a pure tone.  Detailed but not analytical or sterile at all.  Instrument timbre is resonant and pulsating...and this is where it isn't the "leap" from Heerlen to Ulm you'd think, at least to my ears, as far as richness of tone (what I associate with and love about the PWs).  I'd owned a pair of Tele E88CC's a few years ago and loved their delicate beauty...but they were definitely "delicate"...they never quite got there on an impact level.  These do !!!  Closest to "live" I've heard on my modest system.  It's been over a month now that I've had 'em  and the honeymoon is still going on.  I guess it's love.
PS - I'm glad you got a kick out of my avatar.

 

[rb2013]

   
Roberto !!!!!!  Don't  get me wrong.  I still loves me my Pinched Waists and my Miniwatt E188CC's...BUT these Telefunken E188CC's have a magic synergy with the GEC 6AS7G's I just switched to in my Woo WA2.  Such a pure tone.  Detailed but not analytical or sterile at all.  Instrument timbre is resonant and pulsating...and this is where it isn't the "leap" you think, at least to my ears, as far as richness of tone (what I associate with and love about the PWs).  I'd owned a pair of Tele E88CC's a few years ago and loved their delicate beauty...but they were definitely "delicate"...they never quite got there on an impact level.  These do !!!  Closest to "live" I've heard on my modest system.  It's been over a month now that I've had 'em  and the honeymoon is still going on.  I guess it's love.
PS - I'm glad you got a kick out of my avatar.

Whazz-up Billy Boy!
 
I posted this link at the bottom of my review - they rated the Tele E188CC as one of the best.
 
http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/6dj8.html
 
Well many consider the 'German' sound as the antithesis of the Dutch sound.  I have to say compared to the gray shield Siemens CCa's the Tele's seemed more neutral.  I just wish they were cheaper.  Have you tried the Tele CCa's?
 
Have you tried these iFi 5670W's?  I'm curious about them.

 

[r2muchstuff]

Yes, please, somebody report on the iFi 5670W's.  Curiosity is growing.
 
The 6N3P-E Reflektor - 1986 in the Valhalla 2 is really getting along with the Beyer T90.  They are now pushing 16hrs of burn.
 
The bass and mids are robust, the treble is ..... smooth.  On a T90?
 
r2

 

[billerb1]

  Whazz-up Billy Boy!
 
I posted this link at the bottom of my review - they rated the Tele E188CC as one of the best.
 
http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/6dj8.html
 
Well many consider the 'German' sound as the antithesis of the Dutch sound.  I have to say compared to the gray shield Siemens CCa's the Tele's seemed more neutral.  I just wish they were cheaper.  Have you tried the Tele CCa's?
 
Have you tried these iFi 5670W's?  I'm curious about them.

 
As  to hearing the Tele CCa's or the iFi 5670W's my answer is NICHT !!!!

 

[grizzlybeast]

http://m.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-NOS-Telefunken-diamond-bottom-tubes-matched-by-sound-/201464364876

Are those worth 1k??

 

[billerb1]

http://m.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-NOS-Telefunken-diamond-bottom-tubes-matched-by-sound-/201464364876

Are those worth 1k??

That's crazy. You can find a pair for under $300 if you're patient.