3D printed closed headphones with HD800 driver
Apr 17, 2015 at 3:53 AM Post #91 of 166
Great work! l absolutely loved looking at the pictures and reading about the design/build process. Besides, l found your idea super interesting (i.e. HD-800 driver + closed-back design).
 
Good luck for the coming upgrades!
 
Apr 17, 2015 at 4:42 AM Post #92 of 166
  Great work! l absolutely loved looking at the pictures and reading about the design/build process. Besides, l found your idea super interesting (i.e. HD-800 driver + closed-back design).
 
Good luck for the coming upgrades!

thank you
at the moment Im quite busy with my own business, so it's on hold for a while
Meanwhile I'm already contacted a fellow headfier to buy his used and modded stax sr007 earpads and fostex th900 ear pads. Hopefully, it will improve the comfort and look,while the larger opening means I can push the driver forward, to push the imageing of the mid further away ( deeper soundstage) 
also I have already got some 2.5mm connector and this
http://uk.farnell.com/schurter/4801-2200/socket-2-5mm-jack-panel-2pole/dp/143337
My plan was to reduce the size of the connector to improve the look of these cans, however the Schurter connector do not provide enough "jack grip". The jack fall out easily, its really a shame because these connector are very well built and look good. So the conclusion is the Rean mini xlr will stay on the next version.
As already described, the next version will be in carbon fiber. However I'm hessitating since I have 2 options:
1 Improve the look of the previous design, replace 3d printed plastic with carbon fiber
2 Implementing the theory from the designer of the B&w Nautilus reference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FKyfTsyYZI
skips to  8:12 for the interesting bits

the above image is the hd800 driver. See the 5 ported holes? My idea is instead of placing the driver inside a cup like most of the closed hp design, i'm making 5 plastic flexible tube (those used in compressed air components) to connect to those holes and close the tube at the end
In theory there will be no way the sound can reflect back into the driver and also it would reduce driver and cup vibration
However there will be helmholtz resonance presence, and the inside diameter and length of the tube will determine the frequency. The drawback is I have no experience calculating this, therefore lots of research is required. The good news is I can design each tube with different length, therefore there will be 5 resonance frequency, potential for active EQing, with less amplitude of resonance.
The tubes will be directed into the headbands, gaining extra advantage of a smaller cup (there is hardly any) and lighter.
Theory aside, atm I have no idea how to start, especially designing an adapter piece between the driver and tubes.
 
Jun 4, 2015 at 12:24 AM Post #93 of 166
So, I finally got to meet Frank and discuss DIY. Also got to measure his headphone.
 
Thanks, Frank! 
beerchug.gif

 
Measurement data below. Note: measurements are meant to show DIFFERENCES rather than to definitively state whether something sounds "better" or more "neutral" than the others.
 
Frequency response with Stax SR-007 ear pads: (with and without foam)
 

 
Frequency response with Audeze ear pads: (with and without foam)
 

 
Comparison between 2 different types of ear pads: (not subtle at all?)
 

 
Frequency response of different pad types versus my modded HD600, which is my reference:
 
Stax ear pads:
 

 
Audeze ear pads:

 
And versus a stock(ish) HD800 with Anax mod 2.0:
 
Stax ear pads:
 

 
Audeze ear pads:

 
Subjective impressions:
I think Frank did an awesome job with his closed-back custom headphone based on the HD800. Subjectively, it actually sounds very close to one of the Stax headphones (tonally kinda similar to SR-009 with Audeze ear pads) rather than a dynamic. There was a slight lack of body and weight to the sound due to the lower level of bass, but for vocal music, it was awesome, which is much more than I can say for the stock HD800. I simply can't stand the HD800 at all. Anax mod makes it a bit more bearable, but still too piercing for my ears.
 
This is definitely a colored headphone, or at least more so than my HD600, but... the sense of speed and overall presence is excellent! It's very very enjoyable, without any sense of fatigue. Soundstage is very open for a closed headphone (Stax ear pads, Audeze ear pads get close, but the sense of depth is not as good). HD600 is still a bit better in this regard to my ears, but it's quite surprising how "close" this headphone gets.
 
So... kudos to Frank! Great job, man! I'm tempted to get some HD800 drivers to attempt some things myself, but I think I will hold back for now to give way for other projects. But hey, you've got something special going there!
beerchug.gif
 
 
Jun 4, 2015 at 7:44 AM Post #94 of 166
Thanks Bill for your visit and kind words
For now, with the advantage of soundstage, I will use the stax pads for further tuning. The large opening of the pads allow more space, in the case of Audeze pads, some pad of the driver were covered by the pads. After the measurement session, I tried open 1 more 2mm diameter hole to tune down the mid a bit (as the graph shows the mid were quite colored). The result is the sound becomes a bit more open, treble increased a bit but not harsh. The mid actually damped down a bit, but obviously loose some of the lush sound.
The session with Bill was to short. Next time I will ask him to measure the sound with tuning holes open/closed by small increment ( I made lots of small 1.5 and 2mm holes) to find the sweet spot.
 
Jun 4, 2015 at 2:26 PM Post #95 of 166
I've seen people use donuts made of open-cell foam sandwiched between the earpads and the baffle to lower 2-8 KHz energy successfully, you may want to look into the 'stratopads'.
 
Jun 4, 2015 at 8:39 PM Post #96 of 166
I've seen people use donuts made of open-cell foam sandwiched between the earpads and the baffle to lower 2-8 KHz energy successfully, you may want to look into the 'stratopads'.

I've already done that, since the measurement for each earpad with and w/o foam. Now I have to somehow reduce the 600hz-2khz range without affecting the "lush" midrange. It's quite a thin line
 
Sep 25, 2015 at 5:17 AM Post #99 of 166
  Looking forward to more updates :D

Sorry no photo updates yet.
So far I have swapped the thick and uncomfortable Audeze pads for my modded stax sr007 pads. Not that the Audeze pads itself is uncomfy, but because my design had too much clamping force, and thick pads is pressed against your head.
The sr007 pads is not sewn together, so I replaced the foam inside with my own piece of soft memory foam. It is now super comfy, and I had to add a piece of activated carbon foam disc between the pads and baffle to add more air and reduce the amount of mid.
 
  Has anyone ever thought of using HD800 drivers for speakers? They sure do sound good when they come out of my headphones on full blast.

I dont think blasting the driver at high volume is a good idea. Plus the driver is 300 Ohm compare to normal 8 ohm speaker, so you need separate amp and a crossover.
 
need help from you guys: I need to find the same white tape material used in the baffle of beyer dt headphones series and fostex th900. Many manufacturer used those "tape" to make the baffle lighter with lots of cutout and seal those cutout with tapes. I wonder if those white tape completely seal the baffle or they let certain air and frequencies through? Having holes and cutout in the baffle allow me to tune the mid and bass, but certain frequencies from the rear of the driver come out and interfere with sound, making humps in some frequencies
Anyone own a sony R10 here? Mind you post some picture of the baffle and inside the cups?
thanks
Frank
 
Sep 25, 2015 at 5:36 AM Post #100 of 166
Just to wrap up (help may come easier this way, l hope)...
 
So you need:
 
1- "same white tape material used in the baffle of beyer dt headphones series and fostex th900"
 
2- Some pictures of the baffle and inside the cups of a Sony R-10
 
....
 
When it comes to me, my suggestion for your first 'need' is to write to Beyerdynamic (it may be easier than writing to Fostex due to language) and ask them to tell you about the white tape. They may even send you one (l guess as long as you pay for the shipping). lf you don't see yourself emailing them, ask me and l'll do it for you. l woulnd't mind to have the tape sent home and resend it to you, wherever you are (yes, l have to support your creative intentions :))
 
Maybe the day will come when someone will open up a Sony R-10 and will take pictures of the inside 
biggrin.gif
 
 
Sep 25, 2015 at 6:45 AM Post #101 of 166
I have opened a superlux hd660 (beyer dt770 copy) and saw the similar tape. My guess is they filter the sound a bit but doest not seal totally. If my theory is correct, I can replicate with layers of micropore medical tapes. However I need more confirmation from others.
For r10 cups, I need more idea for creating a closed eadphones with big soundstage. I suspect have holes on the baffle for venting to the inside of the cup would solve this, however there is lots of reflection and resonance frequencies without proper design
 
Sep 25, 2015 at 7:36 AM Post #103 of 166
I have opened a superlux hd660 (beyer dt770 copy) and saw the similar tape. My guess is they filter the sound a bit but doest not seal totally. If my theory is correct, I can replicate with layers of micropore medical tapes. However I need more confirmation from others.
For r10 cups, I need more idea for creating a closed eadphones with big soundstage. I suspect have holes on the baffle for venting to the inside of the cup would solve this, however there is lots of reflection and resonance frequencies without proper design

 
Look what l found! lt's better than nothing... Click here.
 
Oct 8, 2015 at 10:21 AM Post #104 of 166
after the first failed attempt at wood cup ( se 1st post) which thefinished quality is spectacular, the shape and sound was bad, I will try again
now Im working in Myanmar, which have a large supply of Paduak and Paduak Burl ( Amboyna burl), I will try to source some block to attemp cnc them.
Will post the design here. The shape will be an evolution of the 3d printed cup, since Am pretty happyand familar with the sound
Finger crossed
 
Oct 18, 2015 at 10:10 AM Post #105 of 166
  As a long time head-fi follower of modding headphones, like many people here, I've tried 2 of the most popular headphones mod: the grado cup mod (in aluminium) and fostex T50RP (aluminium cup mod with Audeze/Kennerton earpads)
Now it's time to try something new, to my knowledge, no one has tried customizing the HD800 before, so I've got to try it.
To start with, before starting the project, I've only auditioned the HD800 for 5 minutes, but based on the reviews the treble can be quite hot. My inspiration for this build is the sony R10, which some guy mentioned that has deeper soundstage than the hd800. So I knew a closed (or semi closed) headphones with great soundstage is possible.
Here is a sneak peek of the final (until now) prototype:

 
 
I bought a pair of replacement driver online and started to design the cups and baffle. The headband was taken from a superlus hd660. And eagerly I asked fellow head-fi member Rudy- Calico88 to CNC the cups from rosewood. Seeing his work on pictures, I had no doubt it would be good.
 
First prototype:
I know it is silly to make the first prototype of your headphones in very expensive material. The build quality of the cup from Rudy-from the tolerance, to the quality of the wood and the finish is top notch. I designed the baffle with lots of hole to tune the sound by covering them with tape.


 
 
 
 
The cup was then dampened with dynamat. Note that the in the middle of the cup there is a removable disc for open/close conversion.
 
First listen: It really showed me the potential of the driver. The hd800 is well built, it weight 35g compare to the plannar driver of fostex at 45g.
The treble detail is there, but with tuning, either I get a good soundstage but no bass or vice versa. Also the soundstage width is very good but not the depth. I spend 2 months playing with this and came to a conclusion: I made a mistake in the design: the cup's volume was too big, and even though the audeze pad is angled, the driver mounted flat on the baffle does not create a deep soundstage. Then came the difficult decision: I have to abandon the beautiful rosewood cup. At the same time, my Printrbot SImple Metal 3D printer arrived, I knew I have to change the design.
 
Second prototype:
Still in love with the wood cup, I decided only to ditch the rosewood baffle for a new design, this time incorporated an angled driver relative to the baffle. The baffle protrude deep into the cup, therefore reduce the volume inside the cup. This new baffle is 3d printed from ABS. The baffle is left undamped ( not with dynamat or blu-tack)

 
 
 
Sound impression: The soundstage and bass is good, but there is a weird mid. I suspect there is a reflection on the ear side of the driver, due to a large volume created by this new baffle.
Now I have to decide to remove the driver from this beautiful cup to a fully 3d printed cup. On the new design, I also want to make the cup less deep. I made a mistake designing 2 huge drums stuck on my head.

 
Final prototype:
WIth the inspiration come from the SOny R10 and the speaker B&W Nautilus, I want to design the cup without the concentric shape and inspired by a sea creature. Behold the sea shell cup.


 

 
 
The 3d printed cup was in grey, then bottle sprayed black.The design of the baffle also changed( it's the grey disc in the next picture). With new design, there is no reflection of sound on the ear side of driver.
I later spend 3 months listening and tweaking the sound, by opening/closing venting holes on the baffle and cup, damping the cup with blu-tack ( i will switch to dynamat later). After the dynamat, there is a layer of lambskin leather and cotton wool to further damp the driver.
THe jack is mini XLR from Rean.
Sound impression: (briefly compared to a hd800 in a showroom)
Now I'm totally satisfied with the sound. By mass damping the baffle and and cup, the sound is not bright. To my ear, the quality of the bass and mid is mostly the same as the stock hd800. However I am most proud about the soundstage. Although is closed ( or semi closed due to vents), the soundstage is not as wide but deeper than the hd800, as a result of extremely angled driver (angled ear pads + angled driver from baffle). 
Now I know this is not the final prototype, because tuning headphones make you listen to them for a long time. As a result your ear becomes used to the sound. Therefore sometimes I have to go to the shops to compare to other headphones, and it takes time.
THe final pic is the headphones with different ditched component. Now I'm not throwing the rosewood cups away, still waiting for the next project.

 
 
Edit: new pictures of the build:

I made the cable from Double Helix Cable Nucleotide, Switchcraft 3.5mm jack (so I can use with my dx90 conveniently) and rean tiny XLR. For mini XLR, I think Rean is a good choice for it's aesthetic and affordability. The terminals are easy to solder. I use a plastic sleeving for speaker cable, similar to Techflex, but more coarse, you can see the braiding through the sleeves.

A clear shot oy the yokes assembly. The stock yoke from the Superlux HD660 is too small (the same size as Beyerdynamics), so I made a new yoke from stainless steel.I cut the shape from 2mm steel plate, then grinded and polished by dremel.
The hinge of the yoke (small rectangular plastic thing) is 3d printed from carbon fiber abs, glued on to the yoke. Then I use M3 socket head screw to attach the yoke to the cup.

There are 3 holes near the mini xlr connector. I designed the cups with vents at the front, but I need to drill extra 3 holes for tunning.

I used similar method to the Denon Markl mod, adding foam to the thicker side of the pads and cotton to the thinner side. It just sound good to my ears in this config. Also note the 2 holes I punched out of the earpads, helps thinning the mid.

The naked shot: the baffle is 3d printed from 3 parts, saving me from printing in 1 go and spend days removing the supporting materials. THe white blutack is there to mass damp the baffle and reduce reflection from the driver. There are small vents connecting to the main cup chamber. this reduces the pressure and again helping the soundstage, but too many open vents and the sound becomes thin with peaky treble.
There is also a lip for mounting the Audeze earpads.

Final pics showing the beautifull hd800 driver and my crappy craftsmanship with lots of blu-tack
 

oooooooh that's gorgeous!!!!!!!!!!! Nicely done

Excited to see what your results with the wood cup will b
 

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