[Me x3]

  What do you think about the suggestion of buying a pair of new Zensor 1s?

 
Zensor 1s are too small for your requirements.
Zensor 3 are much more appealing (7 inch), and also more expensive (sadly)
 
I've noticed there's a very good deal with Monitor Audio BX2 on amazon uk (£149 . Pair).
There's a new Monitor Audio Bronze 2 (£280) and that's why you can now get the Monitor Audio BX2 for £149
 
MA BX2 are big bookshelf speakers (6.5 inch) similar to the Zensor 3 in size.
They have more of an airy presentation, not as sweet, not as warm, but bass is still there and extends nicely.
 
At £149 they're great value and could work very well on a small room.
 
Seriously, skip Zensor 1, it's great, but small, bass goes deep, but lacks impact for your requirements.
 
PS. Sounds like you'll have more fun with the subwoofer plan. There will be time for more refinement across the spectrum.

 

[Tadgh]

   
Zensor 1s are too small for your requirements.
Zensor 3 are much more appealing (7 inch), and also more expensive (sadly)
 
I've noticed there's a very good deal with Monitor Audio BX2 on amazon uk (£149 . Pair).
There's a new Monitor Audio Bronze 2 (£280) and that's why you can now get the Monitor Audio BX2 for £149
 
MA BX2 are big bookshelf speakers (6.5 inch) similar to the Zensor 3 in size.
They have more of an airy presentation, not as sweet, not as warm, but bass is still there and extends nicely.
 
At £149 they're great value and could work very well on a small room.
 
Seriously, skip Zensor 1, it's great, but small, bass goes deep, but lacks impact for your requirements.
 
PS. Sounds like you'll have more fun with the subwoofer plan. There will be time for more refinement across the spectrum.

Oh jesus man, the Zensor 3s cost a fair eld whack! :'(
 
They do look gorgeous though, gotta agree with them beautiful beautiful finishes, almost sad that I can't grace my room with their good looks.. 
 
Oof, I'm not all that fond of a cool presentation, but idk. I really wish I could audition these speakers, I mean, £149 is achievable, I could spring for that and still get a sub, but I do like somewhat warm presentation. In a way I find strong mids to be the most important component of music, I don't know why, it's just always struck me as the central component of any track, it's where I naturally zero in on. 
 
I think the subwoofer plan does sound like more fun though, you're right, and it'll probably leave me with more bang for buck in the end because I can retire spare speakers into smaller rooms..  We'll see anyway I'm thinking I might end up buying the Zensor 3s eventually as an upgrade because.. just... damn..

 

[cel4145]

Nope I'm referring to the cheap 8inchers. Normally we can assume that size to produce "tight" bass, given that for the same price you can design a driver with less distortion (since the cone isn't too wide), but in the HTiB example, I suspect manufacturers don't invest much in driver design thinking that this subwoofers up to this size will be for HTiBs for people who are way more conscious about size and loud rumbling movie SFX bass than linear response. As a result they put cheap drivers in enclosures designed to squeeze out as much low bass as possible with more tolerance to distortion than usual (think of the same philosophy behind the Audioengine A2's bass). The better 8in cubes tend to be too expensive for their performance or just outright more expensive than 10in options (of course, if I can snag one on the cheap, then that deals with one problem).

Sorry. I was reading late and somehow saw HT instead of HTIB.

Yeah. HTIB subs tend to be made with the cheapest parts available, and they like to make them 8" (or smaller) so that they are cheap to ship and possibly fit in the same box with the rest of the components. No doubt. Many of them are just one note wonders.

 

[cel4145]

That's in pounds BTW, which is considerably more in euro and dollar, i.e. 139.95 pounds is the cost of the SW150 ( but I was expecting an answer like this much sooner so we did well to get this far )

I got that. SVS doesn't have any subs in the price range that you have listed, and I doubt BK does either. But you could check their website

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tadgh /img/forum/go_quote.gif

What do you think about the suggestion of buying a pair of new Zensor 1s? (I ask about these particularly because while sound is of course the first and foremost concern here... my are they pretty..) If I really took the plunge I could afford a pair of Zensor 1s new, without a sub. 

 

I haven't heard these yet, and the only Dalis I've heard was the old Ikon. Treble was very smooth but overall too dark, like the tweeter could use 1dB or 2dB more from what the crossover setting is at.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tadgh /img/forum/go_quote.gif

But the way I see it it would be better to start with a sub as it might be a while until I can get another upgrade, and bookshelf speakers are simply incapable of producing low bass, I could spend 1000 euro on a pair of speakers and they wouldn't have the performance of a cheap sub. I think a cheap sub might really fill out my range early on - and when I next have room for an upgrade or even the next two or three times it'd go straight into new speakers, and I could use the replaced speakers (probably the Diamond 9.1s at first as ebay's not being kind to me) as a bedroom solution or etc.

 

Well that really depends on what you listen to, and the thing is most modern music doesn't have a lot below 40hz (that's one reason why most people can't tell 320kbps from lossless). I was blasting Metallica from my Pi10's before and I can still feel a kicking sensation on my chest from the bass drum hits; ditto the Focal Chorus 706V, Dali Ikon, and B&W 602S3. Similarly, active monitors like the KRK Rokit 6, Swans D1080MkII 08 have even stronger bass hits, likely because I'm sitting much closer, but my D1080MkII 08 can pound house (as in club music, before everything got lumped into one genre as EDM) bass through several walls of my house. I'm playing LNA's Seemingly Sleepy in my bedroom at loud levels I wouldn't use sitting in the same room, and I can feel the bass in the bathroom across the hall (all wood interior walls) while taking a shower; when right in front of the active monitors at sane volume levels there's still enough pounding from them for that track to be enjoyable even without xstasy (or I suppose so, never had one and despite my party music I hung out more in bars than clubs).

 

In any case if you're set on passive speakers instead of monitors I'd still say you try the Diamond 9.2 over the 9.1, it won't cost much more and you get more low bass, which means you can cross the SW150 a little lower so there's less localization.

 

 

Quote:

Sorry. I was reading late and somehow saw HT instead of HTIB. 

Yeah. HTIB subs tend to be made with the cheapest parts available, and they like to make them 8" (or smaller) so that they are cheap to ship and possibly fit in the same box with the rest of the components. No doubt. Many of them are just one note wonders.

 

If I actually ever need one in the kind of space I mentioned previously, I would actually be more likely to just get an entry-level 8in JLAudio sub (maybe even a used one from a car audio build) and then build a compact ported box for it. 8in W1/W0 should be around $100 new (maybe less I think), decent plate amp for around $100, and then a couple of weekends building the box with borrowed power tools. Then I'll just use a dull/matte spray paint on it with at most a two layers of glossy paint (if at all) so it won't be pretty as with wood stain but at least it won't look out of place with any fuzziness from carpet (which works in a car since it's surrounded by carpet) nor stick out like a manicured nail (if I used very glossy paint).

 

[Tadgh]

I got that. SVS doesn't have any subs in the price range that you have listed, and I doubt BK does either. But you could check their website

I was so hopeful you had thought I meant euro and were going to tell me there were plenty of subs in my budget.. Damn
 

 

 

I haven't heard these yet, and the only Dalis I've heard was the old Ikon. Treble was very smooth but overall too dark, like the tweeter could use 1dB or 2dB more from what the crossover setting is at.

 

 

Well that really depends on what you listen to, and the thing is most modern music doesn't have a lot below 40hz (that's one reason why most people can't tell 320kbps from lossless). I was blasting Metallica from my Pi10's before and I can still feel a kicking sensation on my chest from the bass drum hits; ditto the Focal Chorus 706V, Dali Ikon, and B&W 602S3. Similarly, active monitors like the KRK Rokit 6, Swans D1080MkII 08 have even stronger bass hits, likely because I'm sitting much closer, but my D1080MkII 08 can pound house (as in club music, before everything got lumped into one genre as EDM) bass through several walls of my house. I'm playing LNA's Seemingly Sleepy in my bedroom at loud levels I wouldn't use sitting in the same room, and I can feel the bass in the bathroom across the hall (all wood interior walls) while taking a shower; when right in front of the active monitors at sane volume levels there's still enough pounding from them for that track to be enjoyable even without xstasy (or I suppose so, never had one and despite my party music I hung out more in bars than clubs).

 

In any case if you're set on passive speakers instead of monitors I'd still say you try the Diamond 9.2 over the 9.1, it won't cost much more and you get more low bass, which means you can cross the SW150 a little lower so there's less localization.

 

 

If I actually ever need one in the kind of space I mentioned previously, I would actually be more likely to just get an entry-level 8in JLAudio sub (maybe even a used one from a car audio build) and then build a compact ported box for it. 8in W1/W0 should be around $100 new (maybe less I think), decent plate amp for around $100, and then a couple of weekends building the box with borrowed power tools. Then I'll just use a dull/matte spray paint on it with at most a two layers of glossy paint (if at all) so it won't be pretty as with wood stain but at least it won't look out of place with any fuzziness from carpet (which works in a car since it's surrounded by carpet) nor stick out like a manicured nail (if I used very glossy paint).

Okay quickfire while you're still gracing me with your presence I may have just cleared up 500 extra euro - what would your recommendations be for a *strictly price to performance based* increase? The music I listen to is pretty diverse but reasonably close to what you listen to - it changes from season to season really but right now my main artists/compilations/genres would be - System of a Down - Trap Nation - The Gorillaz - A lotta lotta rap - some Vaporwave. But it does change up pretty often and I listen to some classical, indie, soul, rock, etc. Effectively I'm down for some all rounders. Now say I'd buy the SW150 (tell me if I'm stupid for making that decision) and spend an extra 150 on some bookshelves (so around say 300 euro as an estimate of what I'd be willing to spend) A) Do you reckon the improvement would be worthwhile? B) I'm going for the passive and amped speakers because frankly - volume, I might need them to work for a number of scenarios and so forth, would mounting them somehow as speakers for my PC setup be a grave sin? C) What would be recommendable a pair speakers for this purpose? (and hidden question D) should I give you a rest and factoring a budget change make a new thread just about the bookshelves?)
 
Yeah, that sounds like a sensible decision, stronger bass from the speakers and less from the sub sounds A-OK to me. 
 
Car Audio.. Now that's something I have to get into.. xD

 

[cel4145]

I was so hopeful you had thought I meant euro and were going to tell me there were plenty of subs in my budget.. Damn

I'm sure there are subs. But there are subs. And then there are SUBS

Best thing to do is probably put all your money toward good speakers and then see a sub as something you add down the road.

 

[Tadgh]

I'm sure there are subs. But there are subs. And then there are SUBS

Best thing to do is probably put all your money toward good speakers and then see a sub as something you add down the road.

Saw that on phone first without the emoji, just burst out a laugh or two at work.
 
Hold on dog! My budget for speakers has possibly just been upped to 300, would you still argue towards spending all 450ish euro towards bookshelves under that condition?
 
I'm truly sorry for involving you so much in this thread by the way, if you were even remotely near me I'd buy you a beer.

 

[cel4145]

Saw that on phone first without the emoji, just burst out a laugh or two at work.

Hold on dog! My budget for speakers has possibly just been upped to 300, would you still argue towards spending all 450ish euro towards bookshelves under that condition?

I'm truly sorry for involving you so much in this thread by the way, if you were even remotely near me I'd buy you a beer.

Are there any shops near you that have speakers? If so, you should go listen. Might be you'd find something for less that suits you. Might be you want to spend all of your money on speakers

As it is, a bit difficult to know what is available to you at what prices.

 

[Tadgh]

Are there any shops near you that have speakers? If so, you should go listen. Might be you'd find something for less that suits you. Might be you want to spend all of your money on speakers

As it is, a bit difficult to know what is available to you at what prices.

Alas, no there is not! In fact, there's not a lot of anything near me. The nearest city has nothing past a PC world. It's an awful shame really, it's why I'm so reliant on head-fi and what strangers tell me  
 
Thanks for your feedback on the speakers/sub bit. I'll think about it!

 

[cel4145]

Alas, no there is not! In fact, there's not a lot of anything near me. The nearest city has nothing past a PC world. It's an awful shame really, it's why I'm so reliant on head-fi and what strangers tell me  

Thanks for your feedback on the speakers/sub bit. I'll think about it!

Ask the guys at AVForums. Since they are a UK based audio/video community, members there might have suggests for what is the best price/performance value for you.

 

[Tadgh]

Ask the guys at AVForums. Since they are a UK based audio/video community, members there might have suggests for what is the best price/performance value for you.

I will do! A forum post up every which where before I buy is usually my policy

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tadgh /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I was so hopeful you had thought I meant euro and were going to tell me there were plenty of subs in my budget.. Damn

 

Okay quickfire while you're still gracing me with your presence I may have just cleared up 500 extra euro - what would your recommendations be for a *strictly price to performance based* increase? The music I listen to is pretty diverse but reasonably close to what you listen to - it changes from season to season really but right now my main artists/compilations/genres would be - System of a Down - Trap Nation - The Gorillaz - A lotta lotta rap - some Vaporwave. But it does change up pretty often and I listen to some classical, indie, soul, rock, etc. Effectively I'm down for some all rounders. Now say I'd buy the SW150 (tell me if I'm stupid for making that decision) and spend an extra 150 on some bookshelves (so around say 300 euro as an estimate of what I'd be willing to spend)

 

A) Do you reckon the improvement would be worthwhile? 

 

Sorry but I kind of lost track a bit, but improvement over what? 

 

On its own though given that you listen to a lot of rap, I'd say that set-up makes sense since the sub will provide the kind of kick hiphop needs. Just to be clear though, I'm assuming you listen to rap music that has bass along the lines of krunk, where 50% of Lil Jon's song is him going "YEAH!!!" or "WHAAAAT?!" with a lot of bass in the background that black Cadillacs with large rimz use, but when that kid in the Honda does the same he'll learn that there's another reason besides guns for why rappers use bulletproof glass on their cars (more like bass-proof). If you're more into the kind of rap that is more oriented to lyric content like 2Pac and BnTH (that tells you how old I am) then the sub will mostly be overkill.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tadgh /img/forum/go_quote.gif

B) I'm going for the passive and amped speakers because frankly - volume, I might need them to work for a number of scenarios and so forth...

 

My active Swans D1080MkII 08 speakers can blast bass all around my house. Like I said in my previous post, I could actually make a small house grilling party sound like a small rave, except while the bass is loud enough it won't necessarily provide the ecstasy-fueled stimulation the usual club crowd would look for.

 

In fact, these active speakers are making a lot more power than most integrated amp+passive speaker combos. The Swans make around 20w+70w per side (tweeter and midwoofer with their own active channels); ditto with the KRK Rokit 6 with 25w+73w per side. Personally they're overkill for real nearfield applications - sitting in front of the Swans I never had them past 10:00 on the dial, and even then that's loud for me. The KRK Rokit 6 fed from an Ibasso D-Zero's line out (less than 2volts I think) can fill up my friend's roofdeck party space, but of course while bass is audible ecstasy poppers should go and get the bass dropped on them elsewhere because there's no way to have bass that can be felt from these unless you're standing directly in front of them.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tadgh /img/forum/go_quote.gif

...would mounting them somehow as speakers for my PC setup be a grave sin?

 

No but whether they'll be effective varies from one passive hi-fi speaker to another. Nearfield monitors are designed to have the desired response (of the manufacturer) at that distance, and also they image well. Passive hi-fi speakers may be measured for sensitivity at 1m, but that does not necessarily mean it will have the desired response at that distance or that they can image well at nearfield distance. Of course, some do work well - Ive seen a home studio posted before using B&W 700-series standmounts.

 

If I was made of money my home office would look more like this:

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tadgh /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

C) What would be recommendable a pair speakers for this purpose? 

 

1. Cheap active nearfield: Swans D1080MkIV + SW150 or any other decent enough sub

 

2. Affordable passive: Wharfedale Diamond 10.2 + SW150 (10.1's not really a bad choice, its just that for a little bit more you can use the 10.2)

 

 

  (and hidden question D) should I give you a rest and factoring a budget change make a new thread just about the bookshelves?)

 
Just update the objectives in one post then edit the original post, a least it's easier to refer to certain points already brought up here.
 

 
Car Audio.. Now that's something I have to get into.. xD

 
I personally say this is only a great idea if you spend enough time driving, like if you commute between suburb and downtown through rush hour. And you should start with home audio because car audio is a lot closer to pro audio, since you need to basically turn a car into a proper nearfield system where 
 
1. Your speakers aren't in cabinets with proper specs not to mention an increased noise floor even when stationary, making you more dependent on the subwoofer for bass, but...
2. ...the subwoofer is usually behind you
3. You also sit off to one side, which is not how you sit at home, and as it is you'd hear the nearside channel louder and more forward.
 
In EMMA and IASCA competitions the goal is to overcome those realities and recreate a nearfield listening environment where the vocals are dead center and at around the driver's eye level (not precise since the judges and the owners of the cars aren't all the same height), and the rest of the instruments are properly spaced around that, including bass instruments that need to be heard coming from the front despite the sub's location.
 
I mounted a Vifa home audio tweeter in my car, and it has to be at a proper angle to help center the vocals. It's cut at 3.2khz, with a -6dB on the preamp with the amplifier gain at 0. Midwoofers in the doors are Focal 165VR.

 

[Me x3]

  Oh jesus man, the Zensor 3s cost a fair eld whack! :'(
 
They do look gorgeous though, gotta agree with them beautiful beautiful finishes, almost sad that I can't grace my room with their good looks.. 
 
Oof, I'm not all that fond of a cool presentation, but idk. I really wish I could audition these speakers, I mean, £149 is achievable, I could spring for that and still get a sub, but I do like somewhat warm presentation. In a way I find strong mids to be the most important component of music, I don't know why, it's just always struck me as the central component of any track, it's where I naturally zero in on.

 
Here you can read about Monitor Audio BX2
https://www.avforums.com/threads/my-review-monitor-audio-bx2.1437525/
 
MA BX2 + SW150 would be great, since MA BX2 is very nice with midrange, detail and openness. The sub will solve the lack of warmth.
 
MA BX2 were a very good deal at £225
They've been awarded "speaker of the year (£200 - £350)" a few years back.

 

[Tadgh]

 

 

Sorry but I kind of lost track a bit, but improvement over what? 

 

On its own though given that you listen to a lot of rap, I'd say that set-up makes sense since the sub will provide the kind of kick hiphop needs. Just to be clear though, I'm assuming you listen to rap music that has bass along the lines of krunk, where 50% of Lil Jon's song is him going "YEAH!!!" or "WHAAAAT?!" with a lot of bass in the background that black Cadillacs with large rimz use, but when that kid in the Honda does the same he'll learn that there's another reason besides guns for why rappers use bulletproof glass on their cars (more like bass-proof). If you're more into the kind of rap that is more oriented to lyric content like 2Pac and BnTH (that tells you how old I am) then the sub will mostly be overkill.

 

 

My active Swans D1080MkII 08 speakers can blast bass all around my house. Like I said in my previous post, I could actually make a small house grilling party sound like a small rave, except while the bass is loud enough it won't necessarily provide the ecstasy-fueled stimulation the usual club crowd would look for.

 

In fact, these active speakers are making a lot more power than most integrated amp+passive speaker combos. The Swans make around 20w+70w per side (tweeter and midwoofer with their own active channels); ditto with the KRK Rokit 6 with 25w+73w per side. Personally they're overkill for real nearfield applications - sitting in front of the Swans I never had them past 10:00 on the dial, and even then that's loud for me. The KRK Rokit 6 fed from an Ibasso D-Zero's line out (less than 2volts I think) can fill up my friend's roofdeck party space, but of course while bass is audible ecstasy poppers should go and get the bass dropped on them elsewhere because there's no way to have bass that can be felt from these unless you're standing directly in front of them.

 

 

 

No but whether they'll be effective varies from one passive hi-fi speaker to another. Nearfield monitors are designed to have the desired response (of the manufacturer) at that distance, and also they image well. Passive hi-fi speakers may be measured for sensitivity at 1m, but that does not necessarily mean it will have the desired response at that distance or that they can image well at nearfield distance. Of course, some do work well - Ive seen a home studio posted before using B&W 700-series standmounts.

 

If I was made of money my home office would look more like this:

 

 

 

 

1. Cheap active nearfield: Swans D1080MkIV + SW150 or any other decent enough sub

 

2. Affordable passive: Wharfedale Diamond 10.2 + SW150 (10.1's not really a bad choice, its just that for a little bit more you can use the 10.2)

 

 
 
Just update the objectives in one post then edit the original post, a least it's easier to refer to certain points already brought up here.
 
 
I personally say this is only a great idea if you spend enough time driving, like if you commute between suburb and downtown through rush hour. And you should start with home audio because car audio is a lot closer to pro audio, since you need to basically turn a car into a proper nearfield system where 
 
1. Your speakers aren't in cabinets with proper specs not to mention an increased noise floor even when stationary, making you more dependent on the subwoofer for bass, but...
2. ...the subwoofer is usually behind you
3. You also sit off to one side, which is not how you sit at home, and as it is you'd hear the nearside channel louder and more forward.
 
In EMMA and IASCA competitions the goal is to overcome those realities and recreate a nearfield listening environment where the vocals are dead center and at around the driver's eye level (not precise since the judges and the owners of the cars aren't all the same height), and the rest of the instruments are properly spaced around that, including bass instruments that need to be heard coming from the front despite the sub's location.
 
I mounted a Vifa home audio tweeter in my car, and it has to be at a proper angle to help center the vocals. It's cut at 3.2khz, with a -6dB on the preamp with the amplifier gain at 0. Midwoofers in the doors are Focal 165VR.

Improvement upon a pair of Diamond 9.1s, getting 10.1s or 10.2s or a pair of MA BX2s.
 
Well the idea of the sub is not kicking strong bass at all, it really is just to totally cover the spectrum, I listen to a lot of rap, but mostly lyric based. Think everything from old Easy-E (actually somewhat treble heavy) to 2pacalypse and similar politically motivated rap (vocal heavy) and similar to Snoop Dogg (think R&B) to very bass heavy stuff (The Bones soundtrack for example, mostly not even bass in the guitar/picking/twanging sense, more bass gradients and the like).
 
I'd like to think that I'm cultured and all, but come on, who doesn't like a little Cadillac with their large rimmed wheels and hydraulic suspension?
 
Okay thank you, not being versed in the way of decent speakers I've been a little unclear on the difference between active monitors and passive loudspeakers, but what I can tell you is that I have headphones for being right up at my PC, as I'm on Teamspeak a lot playing games with friends it's highly unlikely that music appreciation will be had at such ranges, hence why these would be at the front of a room with a TV - so I could appreciate music in a relaxing not at my desk area, and so I could appreciate it to an extent all over one room and hear it all over the house. Hence my decision.
 
Is that a sub-woofer under that desk?
 
Thanks for the purchasing recommendations, will look into it and update the post!
 
Also living where I do, there's not a day when I leave the house that I don't spend at least an hour in the car, and that's not even with any traffic. Looks tricky, and fun.
 

   
Here you can read about Monitor Audio BX2
https://www.avforums.com/threads/my-review-monitor-audio-bx2.1437525/
 
MA BX2 + SW150 would be great, since MA BX2 is very nice with midrange, detail and openness. The sub will solve the lack of warmth.
 
MA BX2 were a very good deal at £225
They've been awarded "speaker of the year (£200 - £350)" a few years back.

Thank you! I'll look into them!