24bit vs 16bit, the myth exploded!

[analogsurviver]

   
No, I think there is much more to discuss on the benefits of your CD Mat. Head-Fi has a thread where you can discuss tweaks like your CD Mat and Shakti Stones and no discussion of ABX is allowed. That's the place for you, my friend, and there are many enthusiasts there waiting with open wallets to learn more.

OK - would dbt using two same type cd transports , playing two equally made CD-R copies or originally pressed CDs, one with and one without the mat, played simoultaneously for A/B trough a single DAC, played over speakers to a panel of say three conductors/musicians, who perform on these CD(R)s - be good enough for you ?
 
I - or better yet - a third party person, knowing only "A" and "B" (and how to note the results correctly) would record the results. It can not be ABX under Foobar2000, which can only compare two files from PCs disk and not external digital input(s). At least, I do not have such a PC that accepts two S/PDIF inputs. 

 

[sonitus mirus]

  OK - would dbt using two same type cd transports , playing two equally made CD-R copies or originally pressed CDs, one with and one without the mat, played simoultaneously for A/B trough a single DAC, played over speakers to a panel of say three conductors/musicians, who perform on these CD(R)s - be good enough for you ?
 
I - or better yet - a third party person, knowing only "A" and "B" (and how to note the results correctly) would record the results. It can not be ABX under Foobar2000, which can only compare two files from PCs disk and not external digital input(s). At least, I do not have such a PC that accepts two S/PDIF inputs. 

 
Why not just have somebody put one of your favorite CDs in the player, randomly with or without the mat, and then listen to the music as long as you like and try and determine if the mat is in place or not?  As long as you have no idea whether the mat is being used or not, that should be sufficient to remove bias.  
 
If you guess correctly 8 times in a row, I'd be impressed, and I would be satisfied that the mat is making a difference that you can identify.

 

[HWTest]

  Of commercially available recordings ...

 
And? Is it a problem to rip and submit a (not commercially available) CD on two or more drives?

 

[analogsurviver]

   
Why not just have somebody put one of your favorite CDs in the player, randomly with or without the mat, and then listen to the music as long as you like and try and determine if the mat is in place or not?  As long as you have no idea whether the mat is being used or not, that should be sufficient to remove bias.  
 
If you guess correctly 8 times in a row, I'd be impressed, and I would be satisfied that the mat is making a difference that you can identify.

That is easier to do than what I proposed.
 
I will try to make it happen at dealer's ASAP - he tests me, I test him. This makes for double the result. I jost spoke with him on the phone and we will do it ASAP.
 
He told me another thing: ripping the CD with or without the mat to a file on PC etc produces different results. I could do a few and load them to some cloud , so that everyone can compare the files at the leisure of his/hers home.
 
How long can these excerpts be, due to copyright reasons ? IIRC, 30 seconds are allowed - I do not want to have any trouble regarding this.

 

[analogsurviver]

   
And? Is it a problem to rip and submit a (not commercially available) CD on two or more drives?

No.

 

[bigshot]

When I first got a CD burner, I used it for making vital backups as part of my job as a media archivist. I would do checksum verification on every burn I made. If I was creating an audio CD, I would first master it as a disk image and burn it from that just so I could do bit for bit verification. As part of this job, my volunteers and I burned well over 10,000 disks, three at a time using the internal drives of three iMacs, using Taiyo Yudin stock, both CDs and DVDs. We never got a single verification error.
 
I ran out of Taiyo Yudin one day, so I sent a volunteer to Frys to pick up a batch of blanks to hold us over until the next shipment arrived from Monoprice. He came back with a spindle of Memorex. I got an error on the very first burn. I burned a few more and realized that it was like pulling teeth to get bit for bit verification with the Memorex blanks. They went straight in the trash. By the way, every one of those burns I made on Taiyo Yudin years and years ago are still good.
 
Error free burning has everything to do with the quality of the stock you use, not magical felt stickers or green pens.

 

[lamode]

  YMMV - but only after you try it, not a priori rejecting it as an audio myth.

 
When a $20 CD-ROM drive can retrieve 100% data from a disc, this becomes pointless. You can't improve on 100%.
 
Besides, why keep going on about CDs? That become an obsolete playback medium 15 years ago, as soon as lossless files and ripping took over.

 

[lamode]

Originally Posted by analogsurviver /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Why on earth do you think Technics SH-9020 http://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/technics/sh-9020.htm is THE most sought after and priciest component from the entire Technics Professional Series 90X0 ?

 
... because people are crazy about retro gear. A good digital meter would run circles around this unit.
 
 

 

[analogsurviver]

  When I first got a CD burner, I used it for making vital backups as part of my job as a media archivist. I would do checksum verification on every burn I made. If I was creating an audio CD, I would first master it as a disk image and burn it from that just so I could do bit for bit verification. As part of this job, my volunteers and I burned well over 10,000 disks, three at a time using the internal drives of three iMacs, using Taiyo Yudin stock, both CDs and DVDs. We never got a single verification error.
 
I ran out of Taiyo Yudin one day, so I sent a volunteer to Frys to pick up a batch of blanks to hold us over until the next shipment arrived from Monoprice. He came back with a spindle of Memorex. I got an error on the very first burn. I burned a few more and realized that it was like pulling teeth to get bit for bit verification with the Memorex blanks. They went straight in the trash. By the way, every one of those burns I made on Taiyo Yudin years and years ago are still good.
 
Error free burning has everything to do with the quality of the stock you use, not magical felt stickers or green pens.

I certainly agree discs themselves are important. Taiyo Yuden (proper name) is a well respected top notch manufacturer.
 
Even with the best of discs, CD mat will help. All it takes is a good listen. If you need,you can compare the results of ripping, or/and playback. This is part of the reason why a CD-R copy can be made to sound better than the original pressed CD - by using CD mat for both, reading and burning at as slow speed as possible. 

 

[lamode]

  Sorry, if the clear preference for mat of a recording/mastering engineer, bassist and sax player who play on that recording, put eventually to CD , are not enough to at least give it a shadow of a doubt, then I do not know what could convince you. 

You can't convince us that you can achieve more than 100% accuracy, sorry.

 

[lamode]

  Of commercially available recordings ...

You are (deliberately) missing the point. AccurateRip can confirm that people are achieving 100% error-free data retrieval with their drives. No amount of pixie dust or carbon fibre power plugs can make a difference.

 

[StanD]

  You can't convince us that you can achieve more than 100% accuracy, sorry.

Not even 101%? Bummer, my life is ruined. 

 

[analogsurviver]

   
... because people are crazy about retro gear. A good digital meter would run circles around this unit.
 
 

Please read the specs before making such claim ... - and verification of the accuracy in the review of the stock, non refurbished unit - more than 30 years old.
 
For starters, anything digital that could aspire to achieve this performance would have to use >> than CD redbook to begin with... - its frequency response is extended, enough so even for the fastest currently commercially available microphones: 8 Hz to 93 kHz at +-1 dB.
 
This can not be had with 192/24 ... - it would not be so flat to 93 kHz in real life, and fall off as a brick beyond 96 kHz, where analog meter rolls of gently above 100 kHz.

 

[Krutsch]

I think at this point, it's very clear that @analogsurviver is trolling and seeing how long he get all of us to continue to respond to his insane commentary.
 
EDIT: and so far, he's put on an epic performance.

 

[HWTest]

  He told me another thing: ripping the CD with or without the mat to a file on PC etc produces different results.
 

 
There is also a very nice software called "CD Vergleich", it compares CDs in two drives or a CD with a ripped image.