[davidhunternyc]

We are talking only 3.26 points differentiating both teams through both programs, what, out of a 215 point average? Either Pang/Tong skated more than 1.9 pts better than Shen/Zhao in the long program or Shen/Zhao points were inflated in the short program. Something seems amiss to me, but that is the role of the dice with judged sports. All I want is full disclosure as to how those points were awarded by each and every judge. I don't even know if the judging throws out the high score and the low score like it used to be. It didn't insure fair judging in the past but at least it was a modicum of a safety net.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JadeEast /img/forum/go_quote.gif Difficulty of the tricks factor into the mogul rankings and only 2 competitors pulled off the hardest trick a double twisting back flip off the top air. It's a trick "arms race" in these things and who ever can pull off the big one of the competition gets bonus points. The pure timed events make things so much easier to make rulings on but this being head-fi everyone should be used to subjective judging by now.

The head-fi analogy is just too funny. Thanks for shedding light on the mogul situation. Which 2 competitors pulled off the double twisted back flip? How did they end up in the rankings? It just seems like so many of these judging competitions are a crap shoot.

 

[hockeyb213]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MomijiTMO /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Australian should have won. Home judge was biased! Yeah... I hate sports where there is judging. You can question too many things.

Agreed. I prefer sport where subjectiveness do not come into play and rules are followed and scoring cannot be judged. Hence why I cannot enjoy watching figure skating, diving, or gymnastics, among others.

 

[davidhunternyc]

You know what I found interesting about the judging in the summer Olympics, is that the scores for diving seemed pretty transparent to me. At least from my point of view, their didn't seem to be favoritism. Those splashes when the divers hit the pool could not be masked.

I just had another thought though. The Olympics are set up in a way so that there can no longer be any out-and-out controversies anymore. You see how we are all speculating here? There is no transparency and so we have to take the judges scoring as absolute. I guess all we can do now as viewers is just raise our eyebrows a bit. Maybe this is the ultimate controversy.

 

[intoflatlines]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif Which 2 competitors pulled off the double twisted back flip? How did they end up in the rankings?

I'm pretty sure the gold winner did it as his first jump of the last run.

 

[davidhunternyc]

Thanks, I see now. I have never said that Alex Bilodeau shouldn't have won gold. It seems clear that he deserved it. What I find suspect is that France's, Guilbaut Colas, was dropped to 6th place.

On Alex Bilodeau-
"His two jumps -- a double twisting back flip and a back flip with an iron cross -- were clean and his knees close together as he wove a tight path down the bump-filled course."

 

[DrBenway]

Remember the cold war era in the Olympics, anybody? Eastern or Western judges would deliberately award arbitrarily high or low scores, knowing that high and low scores were thrown out. Add political collusion to the mix, and you have a full-costume farce.

Judged sports do not belong in the Olympics. Judged sports are not sports -- they are beauty contests. If you need a judge to tell you who got to the finish line first...why bother. What the hell does "artistic impression" have to do with sport? Why not just add opera and ballet to the Olympics?

 

[davidhunternyc]

I've read your comments on the other threads about this. We all seem to agree that judged sports are a roll of the dice somewhat. I do find gymnastics, however, to be a fundamental human sport but I wouldn't know how to judge it fairly. Gymnastics is an incredible human feat to me. The women's floor exercise with the music seems silly to me though. Get rid of the music. Other than that, I think all the apparatuses and routines are pure sport. Just how do you score it?

I thought Helen of Troy did rhythmic gymnastics?

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've read your comments on the other threads about this. We all seem to agree that judged sports are a roll of the dice somewhat. I do find gymnastics, however, to be a fundamental human sport but I wouldn't know how to judge it fairly. Gymnastics is an incredible human feat to me. The women's floor exercise with the music seems silly to me though. Get rid of the music. Other than that, I think all the apparatuses and routines are pure sport. Just how do you score it? I thought Helen of Troy did rhythmic gymnastics?

I'm not at all denigrating the dedication, talent, and work that goes into gymnastics. I just don't know how to make the judging fair and impartial.

I mean, c'mon. When you see the precision, strength and muscle control necessary to compete in the rings or the parallel bars...it's amazing. Other than obvious mistakes, though, how do you fairly separate one world-class gymnast from another? Same goes for freestyle skiing, dressage, etc.

I hadn't heard of the connection of rhythmic gymnastics to the ancients...kind of gives me pause. But I still don't see a way of making it fair.

 

[RedLeader]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif His second jump was a bit to be desired but it wasn't terrible.

He was doing a grab, which was a good portion of the jump. He never actually managed to grab his ski, he missed. Hell, they even did a slo-mo replay, showing him completely missing the grab. How.... is that a controversy? The fact that you didn't see that he botched the jump?

 

[Currawong]

Ice skating is not judged on how beautiful it is, but on technical capability. Having been involved in martial arts, I understand how easy it is to watch a sport and not understand the subtlety of what is going on and feel more appreciation for something that looks good rather than something which is "technically correct".

I think it's best, overall, just to watch and enjoy the performances rather than care too much about the scoring*, unless you're deeply involved in the sport yourself.

[size=xx-small]*or the comments from attention-seeking people who love to start controversial threads.[/size]

 

[davidhunternyc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedLeader /img/forum/go_quote.gif He was doing a grab, which was a good portion of the jump. He never actually managed to grab his ski, he missed. Hell, they even did a slo-mo replay, showing him completely missing the grab. How.... is that a controversy? The fact that you didn't see that he botched the jump?

Well, that is what this thread is for, to learn about these things. Thanks. So do you think, even after a great first jump and the fastest time, that he deserved to finish in 6th place?

 

[barqy]

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ice skating is not judged on how beautiful it is, but on technical capability. Having been involved in martial arts, I understand how easy it is to watch a sport and not understand the subtlety of what is going on and feel more appreciation for something that looks good rather than something which is "technically correct". I think it's best, overall, just to watch and enjoy the performances rather than care too much about the scoring*, unless you're deeply involved in the sport yourself.

That sounds to me more like watching a movie or listening to a concert than watching a sporting event. Actors and musicians are talented and work tremendously hard at what they do. What they do is not sport, silly awards shows notwithstanding.

I don't deny that boxing is a sport, and I have or had older relatives who boxed professionally. I myself have had the gloves on, though just for sparring. It's a physically demanding, highly skilled pursuit. As are figure skating, gymnastics, etc.

But I watched Ken Norton break Muhammed Ali's jaw, and lose the fight. Why? I'm not sure that anyone knows. The best explanation I heard is that to take the belt from a champ, you have to knock him out. Well, in that case, why bother with the judges?

Clear-cut judgements (was the tennis ball in or out; was the baseball inside or outside of the foul-pole) can be reliably made by officials, or, increasingly, by electronic officiating, most of the time. Qualitative judgements like whether one jump or spin was "better" than another are just not the same thing. I just can't avoid rolling my eyes when I hear phrases like "artistic impression" related to so-called sports.

[size=xx-small]*or the comments from attention-seeking people who love to start controversial threads.[/size]

 

[IPodPJ]

There's something I didn't understand about the ski jump scores. They were showing the individual scores from the 6 countries judging them. On every single ski jump I saw, four of the countries were scoring between 4.0 and 4.9. Why then were the other two, which I think were China and Japan (not positive though) scoring between 1.9 and 2.9, even on the best timed jumpers and the one who got first place? That doesn't make sense. Do those two countries have a different set of scoring parameters? The scores just didn't make any logical sense.

 

[Armaegis]

Did anyone get a crowbar to the kneecap yet?