[AngelicFantasy]

Quote:

Yesterday you made your first post asking for advice on picking out equipment and today you're an expert?
 
Why does your 'friend' 'believe' that unknown DAC is the best for under $200, what has he compared it too?
 
Why do you believe these options are better than the Zero DAC, have you even heard it? Have you compared the STX to it as you consider it better?
 
All I see in your post is a bunch of speculation and bad advice.

Like I said, I'm not at all well-versed in DACs. I also stated in my "limited research" I have found that...
 
As for my friend, he's pretty well established here and has personally tested and owns the STX, the Musiland 02 and many people agree that the Aune Mini MK2 is better than the Zero Dac. I don't know much about the PCM1794A, but from what I've read, it's a decent DAC and I trust him. That said would you take the Zero Dac over these other options or were you just trying to get on me for giving my opinion and being new?

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

Like I said, I'm not at all well-versed in DACs. I also stated in my "limited research" I have found that...
 
As for my friend, he's pretty well established here and has personally tested and owns the STX, the Musiland 02 and many people agree that the Aune Mini MK2 is better than the Zero Dac. I don't know much about the PCM1794A, but from what I've read, it's a decent DAC and I trust him. That said would you take the Zero Dac over these other options or were you just trying to get on me for giving my opinion and being new?

I don't have a go at anyone for being new, the problem is you were asking for advice and hours later giving it. In my opinion 'limited research' in order to give out advice is listening to equipment first hand, not an evening spent perusing head-fi.
 
I can't comment on the PCM1794A as I haven't heard it however PCM1794A refers to a DA converter and it uses op-amps; if you match those amp-to-amp, be it a $400 Yulong D100 or $100 Zero DAC you have the same sound. The difference in price comes down to appearance and quality components, all these solid-state amps and DAC's in between simply run off other op-amps. I can tell you first hand the Zero DAC with my preferred op-amp beats out the DACMagic, EMU 0404, STX and others. If its worth an extra $300 for a fancier looking unit by all means spend the money, but at the end of the day you're moneys not buying better sound quality.

 

[AngelicFantasy]

Quote:

I don't have a go at anyone for being new, the problem is you were asking for advice and hours later giving it. In my opinion 'limited research' in order to give out advice is listening to equipment first hand, not an evening spent perusing head-fi.
 
I can't comment on the PCM1794A as I haven't heard it however PCM1794A refers to a DA converter and it uses op-amps; if you match those amp-to-amp, be it a $400 Yulong D100 or $100 Zero DAC you have the same sound. The difference in price comes down to appearance and quality components, all these solid-state amps and DAC's in between simply run off other op-amps. I can tell you first hand the Zero DAC with my preferred op-amp beats out the DACMagic, EMU 0404, STX and others. If its worth an extra $300 for a fancier looking unit by all means spend the money, but at the end of the day you're moneys not buying better sound quality.

Interesting and nice to hear your opinion. I just thought I'd help the OP by stating the findings of my "perusing" head-fi. Might have saved him his time if we could all pull together, but I see what you mean about personally testing gear.
 
At the same time, I've heard that the STX with different opamps were also improved, so unless the Zero DAC is more improved with an opamp upgrade than the STX, I'm not sure what to think about that. :\
 
I appreciate your input, but do you also have links to show support for your opinion. So far I've only found threads of people saying almost anything was better than the Zero Dac, but by all means, if I can save money and just get a Zero Dac I'd be interested.

 

[Graphicism]

Well the STX I heard was probably stock so there you go, perhaps this is why we have so many different reviews around here with different contradicting opinions.
 
In closing I have an $800 DAC and the Zero isn't that far behind it, certainly not enough to warrant an upgrade in between the two.

 

[samsauma]

I have a pair of Grado sr325is headphones and my file source is a Macbook. Little Dot 1+ on the way as it should be nicely complementary to the Grados, but I'd like to put a dedicated USB driven DAC in between it all. 
 
So far I've considered the Zero DAC due to it's low initial cost and plenty of user support, upgradability, and so on. It also runs off of wall power, but I am not sure if that will have a drastic effect on performance being that the Little Dot also has a wall plug. A downside to the Zero is it's size and weight, and although it isn't a negative per se, it comes with a headphone amp which I won't need.
 
My other choice is the HRT MS2, which is a bit pricer than a used Zero but it is dedicated DAC and takes up less space. My only concern is that it runs off of the USB > laptop interface, so I'm not sure if that will affect performance negatively, even if I then rout that into the Little Dot 1+. As far as I know, it is not possible to upgrade the MS2.
 
I have thought about the Audinst HUD MX1 as it is USB and as far as I know uses a wall plug for power, but the price is a bit steeper, and it comes with an amp built in which I don't need. Also not sure if those are upgradable, DAC opamp wise. There is also the NuForce uDac2, but again, I am not sure about simple USB driven power.
 
Any thoughts? I'm assuming the Little Dot will have the most significant impact on my Grado's, so I just need to fill in the blank with a decent DAC. So I'm leaning towards the HRT MS2.....

 

[AngelicFantasy]

Quote:

Well the STX I heard was probably stock so there you go, perhaps this is why we have so many different reviews around here with different contradicting opinions.
 
In closing I have an $800 DAC and the Zero isn't that far behind it, certainly not enough to warrant an upgrade in between the two.

I don't mean to sound rude, but you didn't answer my question. You totally tried to evade it if I'm bluntly honest. You originally came at me saying all you saw was "speculation and bad advice," and I don't mean to sound rude, but I'm starting to see the same pattern coming from you now. Maybe you mean differently perhaps? It initially started when you didn't seemingly KNOW the STX could be op-amp upgraded and just speculated that your Zero Dac was better besides others having tested the two side by side both op-amp upgraded and favor the STX.
 
Then in closing you're telling me that there's basically no need to buy a DAC over 100 because it all sounds roughly the same anyway. If that's the case, dear God, why are we all wasting our money? If I'm truly not going to see much of a benefit going from 100 dollars to 800 dollars I might as well leave this forum and save my money. That would make everyone here pretty much insane for buying anything more than a Zero DAC.
 
Is this what you mean to say? You have also yet to provide the links I inquired about solidifying your views on the Zero DAC being as good as my other options or better rather.
 
Sorry OP, I don't mean to de-rail your thread, but perhaps you may garner useful information about the best 200 dollar DAC from Graphicism and I going back and forth.

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

So far I've considered the Zero DAC due to it's low initial cost and plenty of user support, upgradability, and so on. It also runs off of wall power, but I am not sure if that will have a drastic effect on performance being that the Little Dot also has a wall plug. A downside to the Zero is it's size and weight, and although it isn't a negative per se, it comes with a headphone amp which I won't need.

 
Well bear in mind a tube amp takes roughly 10 minutes to start sounding it's best, some say a lot more... so when you just want a quick listen a solid-state works best. Also I use mine for non-critical listening that I can fall asleep too, I wouldn't want to leave my tubes on all night long.
 
 
Quote:

I don't mean to sound rude, but you didn't answer my question. You totally tried to evade it if I'm bluntly honest. You originally came at me saying all you saw was "speculation and bad advice," and I don't mean to sound rude, but I'm starting to see the same pattern coming from you now. Maybe you mean differently perhaps? It initially started when you didn't seemingly KNOW the STX could be op-amp upgraded and just speculated that your Zero Dac was better besides others having tested the two side by side both op-amp upgraded and favor the STX.
 
Then in closing you're telling me that there's basically no need to buy a DAC over 100 because it all sounds roughly the same anyway. If that's the case, dear God, why are we all wasting our money? If I'm truly not going to see much of a benefit going from 100 dollars to 800 dollars I might as well leave this forum and save my money. That would make everyone here pretty much insane for buying anything more than a Zero DAC.
 
Is this what you mean to say? You have also yet to provide the links I inquired about solidifying your views on the Zero DAC being as good as my other options or better rather.
 
Sorry OP, I don't mean to de-rail your thread, but perhaps you may garner useful information about the best 200 dollar DAC from Graphicism and I going back and forth.

 
You didn't ask a question in your previous reply so I'm not sure what I missed or 'evaded'? As far as the STX is concerned I've only heard one, I haven't owned one. In fact I don't think much to computer sound cards, quality parts are traded for compact ones. You say others have compared the two, I question why would you own two similar priced products, surely you can't be expecting a huge difference with your 'upgrade'? More likely it's speculation, much like your initial reply in this thread.
 
I said there isn't enough of a difference between the Zero and a discrete DAC to warrant other op-amp based DAC's in between. That means if you own the Zero and upgrade to another op-amp DAC is a waste of money, save up until you can afford something much better. You question why are we all wasting our money... wouldn't a pair of $300 headphones be seen as wasting money to someone who finds apple ibuds perfectly fine? Differences are indeed minute, in fact blind folded you wouldn't be able to discern between a Zero DAC and a top of the line DAC. You get the biggest change in sound signature with headphones so it's easy to discern, amps and DACs change sound quality more than signature and it's a lot harder for an untrained ear to hear any difference for the better.
 
I'm not sure what link you're after, I didn't mention any? After you spend some time on this forum you'll realize a lot of reviews are smoke and mirrors. The real question is if you find this a fun hobby is it worth spending a lot of money for little results?

 

[AngelicFantasy]

Quote:

 
Well bear in mind a tube amp takes roughly 10 minutes to start sounding it's best, some say a lot more... so when you just want a quick listen a solid-state works best. Also I use mine for non-critical listening that I can fall asleep too, I wouldn't want to leave my tubes on all night long.
 
 
 
You didn't ask a question in your previous reply so I'm not sure what I missed or 'evaded'? As far as the STX is concerned I've only heard one, I haven't owned one. In fact I don't think much to computer sound cards, quality parts are traded for compact ones. You say others have compared the two, I question why would you own two similar priced products, surely you can't be expecting a huge difference with your 'upgrade'? More likely it's speculation, much like your initial reply in this thread.
 
I said there isn't enough of a difference between the Zero and a discrete DAC to warrant other op-amp based DAC's in between. That means if you own the Zero and upgrade to another op-amp DAC is a waste of money, save up until you can afford something much better. You question why are we all wasting our money... wouldn't a pair of $300 headphones be seen as wasting money to someone who finds apple ibuds perfectly fine? Differences are indeed minute, in fact blind folded you wouldn't be able to discern between a Zero DAC and a top of the line DAC. You get the biggest change in sound signature with headphones so it's easy to discern, amps and DACs change sound quality more than signature and it's a lot harder for an untrained ear to hear any difference for the better.
 
I'm not sure what link you're after, I didn't mention any? After you spend some time on this forum you'll realize a lot of reviews are smoke and mirrors. The real question is if you find this a fun hobby is it worth spending a lot of money for little results?

I was looking for links of people that agree with your opinion of whether a 100 dollar Zero DAC sounds the same as whatever 800 dollar DAC you're comparing it to. Perhaps you may have written a review comparing the two and sharing your thoughts/opinions with others and others cuing in as well.
 
At what price point..or what DAC would one need to buy in order to notice a clear difference over the Zero Dac then and along with that do you have any links with people supporting your opinion?

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

I was looking for links of people that agree with your opinion of whether a 100 dollar Zero DAC sounds the same as whatever 800 dollar DAC you're comparing it to. Perhaps you may have written a review comparing the two and sharing your thoughts/opinions with others and others cuing in as well.
 
At what price point..or what DAC would one need to buy in order to notice a clear difference over the Zero Dac then and along with that do you have any links with people supporting your opinion?

 
You're too hasty with your reply that you've overlooked what I wrote. I am saying if you're new to hi-end audio you won't be able to tell a difference between a $100 DAC and a $10,000 one. Sound signature is easy to discern, sound quality is harder to differentiate or more precisely tell the better DAC. The difference between op-amp based DACs is even smaller, therefor there is no point upgrading to a Yulong DA100 from a Zero. The problem is most reviewers will hear a difference, write that difference in a review, but then fail to differentiate when blind folded. The differences if any are in sound signature, such as this particular amp or DAC sounds brighter and so I prefer it with my warmer phones; ergo the brighter amp is better. This in reviewing will be wrote as greater detail and this is replete throughout the hifi world.
 
Generally this isn't a good starting point for a new comer, but read this thread and you'll have a better understanding of what hi end audio is all about.
 
As I said previously if you want to spend money on a slight change of sound signature or a better looking unit by all means don't let anyone stop you. On the other hand if you're looking to be realistic with your money buy based on your own ears, not he said, she said.

 

[sridhar3]

I'd look into this:
 
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB12/NFB12EN.htm
 
I have an NFB-11, but that's a bit out of your price rance ($280, as opposed to $200 for the NFB-12).  Have not heard the NFB-12, but have heard other products with the Wolfson chip.  Good SQ, with the Wolfson chip being a bit more warm and smooth and the Sabre32 chip being ruthlessly detailed.
 
Both of 'em can be used as a DAC/Amp through the headphone jack up front, or as a dedicated DAC using the outputs on the back.
 
I've read some reports of people having trouble with Audio-gd as of late, as apparently demand has far outstripped their ability to replenish supply.  However, I can't really comment on that, as I had no problems with ordering my equipment and I received it via DHL in about three days (astonishingly fast).

 

[tme110]

Quote:

Originally Posted by samsauma /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
My other choice is the HRT MS2, which is a bit pricer than a used Zero but it is dedicated DAC and takes up less space. My only concern is that it runs off of the USB > laptop interface, so I'm not sure if that will affect performance negatively, even if I then rout that into the Little Dot 1+. As far as I know, it is not possible to upgrade the MS2.
 
I

You'll get no noticeable interference from your laptop.  They've isolated it - besides, this is an asynch DAC so it's not the same as all the others which aren't asynch.  My HRT is by far the cheapest part of my whole audio chain but I haven't found anything to match it yet.  At $150 for the none plus version it's quite the deal.
 

 

[Elanzer]

Quote:

I'd look into this:
 
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB12/NFB12EN.htm
 
I have an NFB-11, but that's a bit out of your price rance ($280, as opposed to $200 for the NFB-12).  Have not heard the NFB-12, but have heard other products with the Wolfson chip.  Good SQ, with the Wolfson chip being a bit more warm and smooth and the Sabre32 chip being ruthlessly detailed.
 
Both of 'em can be used as a DAC/Amp through the headphone jack up front, or as a dedicated DAC using the outputs on the back.
 
I've read some reports of people having trouble with Audio-gd as of late, as apparently demand has far outstripped their ability to replenish supply.  However, I can't really comment on that, as I had no problems with ordering my equipment and I received it via DHL in about three days (astonishingly fast).

Seconding this. NFB-12 is slightly on the warmer side for signature and matches up well with the ATH-M50 and HD555. It also leaves you with a great upgrade path since it has a very powerful amp (better than everything else in the price range, often double) that can drive mostly everything out there - 600-Ohm headphones aren't a problem, and it can even drive the heavier orthos (LCD-2, HE-4/5/6) to reasonable levels. For $200 you're getting quite alot in comparison.
 
The only problem right now is the wait time, audio-gd seems to be having staffing problems where they simply can't hire enough people to build these things.

 

[tim3320070]

Audio-gd NFB-12 and you're done.

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:

Audio-gd NFB-12 and you're done.

x2
 

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:

 
You're too hasty with your reply that you've overlooked what I wrote. I am saying if you're new to hi-end audio you won't be able to tell a difference between a $100 DAC and a $10,000 one. Sound signature is easy to discern, sound quality is harder to differentiate or more precisely tell the better DAC. The difference between op-amp based DACs is even smaller, therefor there is no point upgrading to a Yulong DA100 from a Zero. The problem is most reviewers will hear a difference, write that difference in a review, but then fail to differentiate when blind folded. The differences if any are in sound signature, such as this particular amp or DAC sounds brighter and so I prefer it with my warmer phones; ergo the brighter amp is better. This in reviewing will be wrote as greater detail and this is replete throughout the hifi world.
 
Generally this isn't a good starting point for a new comer, but read this thread and you'll have a better understanding of what hi end audio is all about.
 
As I said previously if you want to spend money on a slight change of sound signature or a better looking unit by all means don't let anyone stop you. On the other hand if you're looking to be realistic with your money buy based on your own ears, not he said, she said.

Good post.