[musicbuff]

I currently own Monitor Audio RX6 speakers and they're pretty good.  But I'd like to upgrade.  I've never understood why some pay a phenomenal price for bookshelf (usually 2 way speakers) vs floor standers.  And I've always been curious as to why some expensive speakers only have 2 drivers vs others that have multiple drivers.  I've read that sometimes with more than 2 drivers it can be a bit difficult to make smooth transitions between the drivers and sometimes you can hear a definite crossover point.  I'd appreciate opinions on which you've found to perform better. My listening space is about 17 feet wide x 16 feet deep x 10 foot high ceiling so I don't want gargantuan monster floor standers.  Recommendations please.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Originally Posted by musicbuff /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I've never understood why some pay a phenomenal price for bookshelf (usually 2 way speakers) vs floor standers.  And I've always been curious as to why some expensive speakers only have 2 drivers vs others that have multiple drivers.  I've read that sometimes with more than 2 drivers it can be a bit difficult to make smooth transitions between the drivers and sometimes you can hear a definite crossover point.  

 

It's not just the price point that is being considered here but also the size of the listening area, and the price is then determined by the performance drivers and the cabinet construction. Using multiple drivers in a lower tier product is an easy way to reach further down the bass range, if not make for a plateau of upper bass response so that you get a stronger sensation of the kick drums for example.

 

That said, apart from the complexity of the crossover design, one other consideration is time alignment. Put a 3-way five driver speaker (1 tweeter, 1 midrange, 3 woofer) in a small room and the three woofers will pull the response down. You can make a pillow rampart between you and the speakers but it's not just the reflections off the floor on its own, but that at close enough distance you have enough pathlength differences between your ears and the tweeter vs the lowest bass driver. As you go up the range, some speakers get better built cabinets that are more strategically designed to minimize that problem, like angling the tower so the tweeter is farthest from you, but of course it's in a higher tier because construction is more complex, the packaging is larger, etc.

 

Meanwhile not everybody with a lot of money to blow on speakers has a huge enough room, so they'd much rather get a 2-way standmount with very good quality drivers - like a midwoofer with longer XMax (and everything necessary to make that happen, like a huge magnet), plus a tweeter with a very smooth response. The kind of bass performance out of a good midwoofer will necessitate a sturdier cabinet, so they build one that's stronger, plus they might as well strategically design it to have other tuning effects as well.

 

Still, if one has a large enough room and a large enough wallet...

 

 

 

Although I'm more likely to get a 2-way like this:

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicbuff /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

I'd appreciate opinions on which you've found to perform better. 

 

That depends, but ultimately we're comparing at very different price points here. I can say I loved the thump out of my Wharfedale Diamon 8.4s, but the treble and midrange of the Sonus Faber Guarneri Homage are just fantastic, plus while it's not necessarily thumping my chest the bass hits are audible anyway. Utlimately I blew my money on the Pacific Pi10, which has bass response that isn't that far behind the 8.4, but it doesn't have the treble and bass separate from each other (due to my tiny listening area) while the smoother tweeter on a swivel mount keeps the tweeter from having reflections and such pull the cymbals too far to the flanks.

 

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicbuff /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

I currently own Monitor Audio RX6 speakers and they're pretty good.  But I'd like to upgrade. 

---

My listening space is about 17 feet wide x 16 feet deep x 10 foot high ceiling so I don't want gargantuan monster floor standers.  Recommendations please.

 

 

If you haven't been having the vertically separate bass and treble imaging then you might as well stick with floorstanders. Look up the Focal Chorus 716, poke around in speaker forums and see if anyone's compared them to the RX6.

 

 

[yage]

  I currently own Monitor Audio RX6 speakers and they're pretty good.  But I'd like to upgrade.  I've never understood why some pay a phenomenal price for bookshelf (usually 2 way speakers) vs floor standers.  And I've always been curious as to why some expensive speakers only have 2 drivers vs others that have multiple drivers.  I've read that sometimes with more than 2 drivers it can be a bit difficult to make smooth transitions between the drivers and sometimes you can hear a definite crossover point.  I'd appreciate opinions on which you've found to perform better. My listening space is about 17 feet wide x 16 feet deep x 10 foot high ceiling so I don't want gargantuan monster floor standers.  Recommendations please.

 
I think with two-way speakers you run into a problem when pushing the volume. The bass starts to distort the midrange and the entire presentation gets a little 'congested' sounding. If you're in a small space and don't like to listen at a loud level, then the two-way will work pretty well. Any competent speaker manufacturer should be able to blend the sound from multiple drivers so that you don't hear a crossover point.
 
What is it about the RX6 that isn't floating your boat?

 

[Lorspeaker]

Wat kind of music do u listen to....

 

[musicbuff]

Wat kind of music do u listen to....

My listening tastes are all over the place; urban gospel, Southern gospel, classical, country, jazz, electronic, R&B, pop, rock, movie sound tracks, Christmas music (which encompasses all the aforementioned genre's), world music, Celtic, blues, a little rap...to name a few.  It's just that I don't want speakers that overwhelm or underwhelm my listening room.  I think the improvements I'm seeking are speakers with better timbre and the ability to produce more details (if it's possible you can throw in holographic imaging, too).  I know the RX 6's are pretty good.  I also know there's room for improvement from the fact that I thought the Calyx 24/192 DAC was good when I had it.  Then I bought the Calyx Femto.  After that my music became very good.  I guess I'm looking for a "phenomenal" listening experience within a $2500 new or used budget and unless the speakers are timeless, I prefer nothing older than 5 years. 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicbuff /img/forum/go_quote.gif

My listening tastes are all over the place; urban gospel, Southern gospel, classical, country, jazz, electronic, R&B, pop, rock, movie sound tracks, Christmas music (which encompasses all the aforementioned genre's), world music, Celtic, blues, a little rap...to name a few.  It's just that I don't want speakers that overwhelm or underwhelm my listening room.  I think the improvements I'm seeking are speakers with better timbre and the ability to produce more details (if it's possible you can throw in holographic imaging, too).  I know the RX 6's are pretty good.  I also know there's room for improvement from the fact that I thought the Calyx 24/192 DAC was good when I had it.  Then I bought the Calyx Femto.  After that my music became very good.  I guess I'm looking for a "phenomenal" listening experience within a $2500 new or used budget and unless the speakers are timeless, I prefer nothing older than 5 years. 

 

If you want to improve imaging don't just get better speakers, spend the money treating the room. Do you have any acoustic treatments? It might be better to spend on that first that way you get more out of the speakers you have rather than get better speakers that might just end up getting limited by room modes anyway.

 

[Lorspeaker]

http://www.decware.com/newsite/homepage.html

Time for tube amps for tat added organicity.....

Or...

A pair of sonus faber spkr. I cant afford these, arrghhh.

http://www.sonusfaber.com/en-US/home-page/

 

[yage]

 
My listening tastes are all over the place; urban gospel, Southern gospel, classical, country, jazz, electronic, R&B, pop, rock, movie sound tracks, Christmas music (which encompasses all the aforementioned genre's), world music, Celtic, blues, a little rap...to name a few.  It's just that I don't want speakers that overwhelm or underwhelm my listening room.  I think the improvements I'm seeking are speakers with better timbre and the ability to produce more details (if it's possible you can throw in holographic imaging, too).  I know the RX 6's are pretty good.  I also know there's room for improvement from the fact that I thought the Calyx 24/192 DAC was good when I had it.  Then I bought the Calyx Femto.  After that my music became very good.  I guess I'm looking for a "phenomenal" listening experience within a $2500 new or used budget and unless the speakers are timeless, I prefer nothing older than 5 years. 

 
Here's my experience. I would say that good loudspeaker positioning is just as important as the loudspeaker itself in achieving the kind of sound you want from your stereo. The Monitor Audio RX series manual is pretty light on suggestions for placing speakers in the room. By contrast, there are two methods that Vandersteen Audio outlines in their speaker manuals to minimize the influence that the room modes / acoustics have on the final sound. Here's a link (scroll to page 7): http://vandersteen.com//media/files/Manuals/3asigmanual.pdf. It seems to work well for my Vandersteen 3A Signatures, it could work wonders for you. Measurements need to be exact - imaging was off for me if a speaker was out of position as little as 0.25 - 0.5 in. relative to the other speaker.
 
Toe-in and distance from the back wall also seem to affect imaging and soundstage depth as well as overall balance and timbre. So does the distance from the listening position to the speaker. Most recommend the distances between speakers and you form an equilateral triangle, but depending on your room and individual taste, it might be better to sit a little farther back than that.
 
Personally, I wouldn't go willy-nilly on room treatment. See http://www.audioholics.com/room-acoustics/small-room-acoustics and http://www.audioholics.com/room-acoustics/early-reflections-in-home-theaters-a-different-perspective.
 
In any case, if none of these ideas are new to you, then maybe you really do need new speakers. I've heard the Vandersteen 2CE Sig II and own the 3A Signatures. I think they're excellent speakers. You can find the 2CE Sig II for $2560 new and a pair of 3A Sigs for around the same price on the used market. Both Vandersteen models have been on the market for decades, but are classics. (In fact, I bought my 3A Sigs only a few years ago.) I've also listened to the Paradigm S2 and ProAc Tablette - both champs in the imaging department, though you won't be plumbing the depths of any orchestral works since they're two-way standmount monitors. I've also heard good things about the KEF LS50.

 

[Lorspeaker]

which amp are u using ...u like it? 

 

[musicbuff]

  which amp are u using ...u like it? 

My amp is the Marantz PM11S3  Love it!

 

[Hi Rez]

My preference has always been for a good stand mounted monitor, because if they are well set up within a room, and with the right electronics, they can simply disappear.  I would believe that a floor stander could approach this, but in practice I have never experienced it.  Lesser stand mounted speakers could have limited dynamics, but most higher end reference stand mounted monitors wouldn't have any dynamic limitations in your room.  In your room, the only compromise would be the limited bass extension, though many would perform at least as well as your current speakers in that regard.  A few examples of some better stand mounted speakers:  Dynaudio C1, KEF Reference 201/2, Usher BE-718.
 
With your electronics, I would seriously consider upping your budget, whether you go floor stander or stand mounted.  I believe you might have some better choices if you can increase your budget somewhat.  Many folks consider speakers to be the most critical piece of the puzzle.
 
I am also curious as to what you are using to feed your Calyx.  And how you are connecting the two?  

 

[musicbuff]

  My preference has always been for a good stand mounted monitor, because if they are well set up within a room, and with the right electronics, they can simply disappear.  I would believe that a floor stander could approach this, but in practice I have never experienced it.  Lesser stand mounted speakers could have limited dynamics, but most higher end reference stand mounted monitors wouldn't have any dynamic limitations in your room.  In your room, the only compromise would be the limited bass extension, though many would perform at least as well as your current speakers in that regard.  A few examples of some better stand mounted speakers:  Dynaudio C1, KEF Reference 201/2, Usher BE-718.
 
With your electronics, I would seriously consider upping your budget, whether you go floor stander or stand mounted.  I believe you might have some better choices if you can increase your budget somewhat.  Many folks consider speakers to be the most critical piece of the puzzle.
 
I am also curious as to what you are using to feed your Calyx.  And how you are connecting the two?  

Music comes through Signalyst HQ Player or JRiver Media Center through a Windows 10 computer. The computer has USB connection to the Calyx DAC which is connected to a Marantz PM 11S3 amp by balanced Violectric XLR cables.  The suggested stand mounts are quite interesting.  Looks like I'd have to about double my budget for the Dynaudio's.  They must be VERY special.  As far as bass, I'm not too concerned.  Just bought an SVS subwoofer and it can fill bass requirements from 50 Hz and below.  I just want a speaker with wonderful low-upper mids and highs (I like sparkly in my highs otherwise the music sounds muted and I'm not happy)  Though the last pair of bookshelves I bought were Paradigm Atom V.2's (going on 20 years ago and I wouldn't buy them again) I will take your recommendations under advisement.  Maybe for my room size stand mounts would be better IF the stand mounts are exceptionally good.

 

[Hi Rez]

The Paradigm's are decent speakers, but they are not remotely in the class of the three I mention above.  I have listened to both the Dynaudio and KEFs, and own the KEFs.  I have had many visitors state that they believed one needed much larger speakers to get the sound I get from the KEFs.  And this is in a room much larger than yours.
 
I wouldn't say stand mounts would necessarily be better, but set up can be easier as they are more like a "point source" compared to many floor standers.  And one can get the quality sound from a stand mounted speaker for a lower cost than a full range speaker, if you can live without that bottom octave or two - one will end up paying double or triple the cost for full range bass extension. You have to find out what will work best for you and your budget, but finding a way to listen to a few higher end speakers could make your decision easier, and possibly more expensive.
 
A little off topic, but I enquired about your connectivity to the Calyx as my experience is that the USB experience can be improved for not that many $$'s.  If you believe bytes are bytes, don't read any further.  But I've found the UpTone Audio Regen to add a noticeable improvement to my USB chain for a modest cost, and it has a decent return policy if it doesn't.  There is a thread in this forum about it, and a much larger one over on CA.