[Tysun]

NOTE:

1) You can plug any balanced wired headphone to single-ended (SE) source using an adapter. The adapter will effectively convert the balanced wiring on the headphone back to single-ended wiring, so it becomes SE headphone to SE source.

2) You SHOULD NOT plug a single-ended headphone to a balanced source using an adapter. The adapter in this case will short-circuit the balanced output in the source. It might seem to work in the short run, but you are on borrowed time as you are slowly damaging the balanced circuit on your source and can lead to a burn out of the circuit.

Thanks fellow Malaysian Head Fier, you answer has been quoted in E1DA DAC thread FAQ. This same question has been raised again and again, almost on daily basis.

 

[PERRY8912]

NOTE:

1) You can plug any balanced wired headphone to single-ended (SE) source using an adapter. The adapter will effectively convert the balanced wiring on the headphone back to single-ended wiring, so it becomes SE headphone to SE source.

2) You SHOULD NOT plug a single-ended headphone to a balanced source using an adapter. The adapter in this case will short-circuit the balanced output in the source. It might seem to work in the short run, but you are on borrowed time as you are slowly damaging the balanced circuit on your source and can lead to a burn out of the circuit.

I understand that 2.5mm male to 3.5mm female will not be a good idea.

But what about the following options? 2.5mm male + 3.5mm male to 3.5mm female? It is for A&K player.
The reason I'm looking at the options is I really want to use the extra power from balanced output without changing the cables.
Let me know your thought on this.
Thanks

 

[ClieOS]

I understand that 2.5mm male to 3.5mm female will not be a good idea.

But what about the following options? 2.5mm male + 3.5mm male to 3.5mm female? It is for A&K player.
The reason I'm looking at the options is I really want to use the extra power from balanced output without changing the cables.
Let me know your thought on this.
Thanks

A&K is famous for having some of the (*mechanically) weakest socket on its DAP. Often the socket will brake off from its soldering join internally when it is used extensively. To reduce the issue, A&K instead made the original 'joined' adapter so both sockets can be plugged in at the same time to provide more anchored point and thus more resistant to internal breakage due to mechanical failure. it DO NOT give the output more power in any way as these kind of adapter merely connecting balanced to balanced and single-ended to single-ended (so 2.5mm to other balanced or 3.5mm to 3..5mm). They do not mix the signal internally.

So if Music Heaven is being a good boy and following the same design logic as A&K's original mechanical adapter, then you will not (*and should not) get any sonic benefit from using their adapter, but merely mechanical benefit, as the 3.5mm female socket should only receives electrical signal from the 3.5mm male plug while the 2.5mm plug is solely there to provide only mechanical strengthening. BUT if Music Heaven is bad at their design and indeed mixed the two together, then you are looking at another stupid adapter that can damage your A&K in the long run.

 

[PERRY8912]

A&K is famous for having some of the (*mechanically) weakest socket on its DAP. Often the socket will brake off from its soldering join internally when it is used extensively. To reduce the issue, A&K instead made the original 'joined' adapter so both sockets can be plugged in at the same time to provide more anchored point and thus more resistant to internal breakage due to mechanical failure. it DO NOT give the output more power in any way as these kind of adapter merely connecting balanced to balanced and single-ended to single-ended (so 2.5mm to other balanced or 3.5mm to 3..5mm). They do not mix the signal internally.

So if Music Heaven is being a good boy and following the same design logic as A&K's original mechanical adapter, then you will not (*and should not) get any sonic benefit from using their adapter, but merely mechanical benefit, as the 3.5mm female socket should only receives electrical signal from the 3.5mm male plug while the 2.5mm plug is solely there to provide only mechanical strengthening. BUT if Music Heaven is bad at their design and indeed mixed the two together, then you are looking at another stupid adapter that can damage your A&K in the long run.

Hey, thanks for your reply. I thought the extra 3.5mm male will provide some extra connection, so it may not short the circuit. But maybe I was wrong.

Anyway in order to push some full-size headphones(HE1000SE, D8000,etc.), What's the best way to utilize the extra power from balanced output? I don't really want to change the cables, as it is more expensive and may change the sound somehow.

 

[ClieOS]

Hey, thanks for your reply. I thought the extra 3.5mm male will provide some extra connection, so it may not short the circuit. But maybe I was wrong.

Anyway in order to push some full-size headphones(HE1000SE, D8000,etc.), What's the best way to utilize the extra power from balanced output? I don't really want to change the cables, as it is more expensive and may change the sound somehow.

Actually, changing the cable to balanced might be the cheapest way for you to get more power, assuming that you didn't get the most expensive cable around.

 

[Sandiego77]

NOTE:

1) You can plug any balanced wired headphone to single-ended (SE) source using an adapter. The adapter will effectively convert the balanced wiring on the headphone back to single-ended wiring, so it becomes SE headphone to SE source.

2) You SHOULD NOT plug a single-ended headphone to a balanced source using an adapter. The adapter in this case will short-circuit the balanced output in the source. It might seem to work in the short run, but you are on borrowed time as you are slowly damaging the balanced circuit on your source and can lead to a burn out of the circuit.

This is the best example i have found. Still i have two questions. First from 1) 2.5 mm balanced male could be transfered to 3.5 mm non balanced male, but need adapter? My headphone manufacturer add cable 2.5 mm balanced male to 3.5 mm non balanced male, is it safe? Second question from 2) adapter 3.5 mm non balanced female to 2.5 mm balanced male isnt safe, so 3.5 mm non balanced female to 4.4 mm balanced male is also not safe?

 

[Chris Kaoss]

Hi
1) Yes / Which headphone is it you're talking about?
2) Yes, it's the same thing like 2.5mm.

 

[Sandiego77]

Denon gc30 has cable with 2.5 mm Non balanced male (trrs plug) to 3.5 mm non balanced male (trs plug). I took multimeter to figure out how it's connected. Talking about 2.5 mm male, going from s to t, s and r2 was ground, r1 was right, t was left. They invented own standand. Also I got balanced 4.4 mm male to balanced 3.5 female, maybe this one is safe?

 

[Chris Kaoss]

This looks depended to the internal wiring in the headphone.
Like my Oppo PM-3, with which you are able to use a 3.5mm unbalanced and a 3.5mm balanced termination on headphone side.
But the Denon is forced to use a 3.5mm balanced only.
So you're free to use a 2.5mm/4.4mm balanced male to 3.5mm balanced male cable.
But keep an eye on the wiring before use and make sure it fits your source.

If i read your post correctly, the 2.5mm plug has an uncommon wiring.
Be aware of.

Edit.
The 2.5mm goes to the headphone with to me unknown wiring sheme.

Take a look at the most common pinouts here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/3-5mm-and-2-5mm-trrs-balanced-cable-questions.869527/post-13969168

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/som...iring-for-balanced-audio.875730/post-14131694

 

[Sandiego77]

This looks depended to the internal wiring in the headphone.
Like my Oppo PM-3, with which you are able to use a 3.5mm unbalanced and a 3.5mm balanced termination on headphone side.
But the Denon is forced to use a 3.5mm balanced only.
So you're free to use a 2.5mm/4.4mm balanced male to 3.5mm balanced male cable.
But keep an eye on the wiring before use and make sure it fits your source.

If i read your post correctly, the 2.5mm plug has an uncommon wiring.
Be aware of.

Edit.
The 2.5mm goes to the headphone with to me unknown wiring sheme.

Take a look at the most common pinouts here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/3-5mm-and-2-5mm-trrs-balanced-cable-questions.869527/post-13969168

My story is today i was looking info about adapters, cause I got my 4.4 bal male to 3.5 bal female adapter and still was not sure about safety. After reading this thread and other else I decided to don't use it. I saw similar info from your link, and got idea solder my 4.4 bal male to denons 2.5 male jack, cause it should be balanced, but after testing wiring I decided don't do it because wiring didn't match info on web

 

[Chris Kaoss]

yep, it looks a bit confusing.

The 2.5mm jack on the headphone side, like you mentioned above, is the opposite of what i know a 2.5mm is wired normally.
Did you have measured the 3.5 unbalanced to 2.5 balanced cable?
It looks really strange to me.

 

[Sandiego77]

yep, it looks a bit confusing.

The 2.5mm jack on the headphone side, like you mentioned above, is the opposite of what i know a 2.5mm is wired normally.
Did you have measured the 3.5 unbalanced to 2.5 balanced cable?
It looks really strange to me.

I took example from web and adopted, this is adapter plus cable, left is 4.4, middle is 3.5, right is 2.5. I don't really know is it + or - signal, I assumed it is 3.5 traditional trs and measured with multimeter where is signal.

 

[Chris Kaoss]

Ah, ok.
So you don't know exactly what the 2.5mm pinout on the headphone connector looks like?

 

[Sandiego77]

Ah, ok.
So you don't know exactly what the 2.5mm pinout on the headphone connector looks like?

I'm not sure about my explaining. This is real headphones cable with plugs. And connecting is like I wrote before.

 

[Chris Kaoss]

Ok.
tip = left +
ring 1 = right +
ring 2 = left -
sleeve = right -

Looks like the pinout of my PM-3.

You've mentioned it above in the wrong direction.