[deadlylover]

  Oh and Hi. Long time no see. 

 
Sup, it's been a while eh?

 

[0o0o0o]

   
Sup, it's been a while eh?

Feels good to be back in a strange way. Though I feel my wallet squirming. 

 

[vwinter]

I get the dongle tomorrow, there's like 8 reviews out for the iPhone 7 but nothing in depth comparing it to other phones, let alone running an analyser to at least quell people's fears of degraded sound quality. Or maybe it is worse and everyone is hush hush about it. XD

It's kind of confusing actually.
I'm not really sure what the point of testing the phone for sound quality is seeing as how there's no analog out except the built-in speakers. And I doubt they spent an extra cent more than minimally needed on the DAC/Amp for those.

I wonder if company's that make lightning headphones will be using their own selected chips or only those approved by Apple when licensing the lightning connector for use in headphones.

 

[deadlylover]

I wonder if company's that make lightning headphones will be using their own selected chips or only those approved by Apple when licensing the lightning connector for use in headphones.

 
The marketing for the Audeze Sine lightning headphones mentions that they use their own selected 24-bit DAC/amp, so it looks like they have some freedom, but it doesn't answer whether Apple has to OK their chip selection or not.
 
I saw a passing comment here or there that you *must* buy the lightning connector from Apple to be licensed in the MFi (made for iPhone etc.) program, so we can be reasonably confident that Apple will at least have some kind of turn-key solution for headphone manufacturers who don't want to roll their own DAC/amp dongles.

 

[Smugsie]

  Away from this hobby for 4 years?? And suddenly feeling myself being sucked in... To resist or to not resist that is the question...
 
Oh and Hi. Long time no see. 

You should seep into the <$100 earbud market, lots of competition here on headfi and they all sound pretty good.
 

---

In regards to the lightning connector, I like the idea that I'll be hearing how the headphones were meant to be heard but then again... If I don't like the sound sig of the headphone then there's really no way of using a different device to make them sound different.

 

[vwinter]

In regards to the lightning connector, I like the idea that I'll be hearing how the headphones were meant to be heard but then again... If I don't like the sound sig of the headphone then there's really no way of using a different device to make them sound different.

The common response here is that it's a lost cause anyway ね?

Thinking about it. If some of the big players like Samsung follow suit and do digital out only, which almost seems prudent at this point given they can shave a few cents off each phone and push that onto the consumer via paying headphone manufacturers, then it might actually hurt DAC/Amp makers in the <$500 end. Result being like you said that you can't change the sound anyway on a given set.

Hell, soon enough a 3.5mm jack on a headphone might be a "feature" that they charge extra for.

The marketing for the Audeze Sine lightning headphones mentions that they use their own selected 24-bit DAC/amp, so it looks like they have some freedom, but it doesn't answer whether Apple has to OK their chip selection or not.

I saw a passing comment here or there that you *must* buy the lightning connector from Apple to be licensed in the MFi (made for iPhone etc.) program, so we can be reasonably confident that Apple will at least have some kind of turn-key solution for headphone manufacturers who don't want to roll their own DAC/amp dongles.

That makes sense.
Anyone think this will generally increase the cost of headphones?

 

[DaveLT]

The common response here is that it's a lost cause anyway ね?

Thinking about it. If some of the big players like Samsung follow suit and do digital out only, which almost seems prudent at this point given they can shave a few cents off each phone and push that onto the consumer via paying headphone manufacturers, then it might actually hurt DAC/Amp makers in the <$500 end. Result being like you said that you can't change the sound anyway on a given set.

Hell, soon enough a 3.5mm jack on a headphone might be a "feature" that they charge extra for.
That makes sense.
Anyone think this will generally increase the cost of headphones?

Motorola has done it before Apple though but they too included a Type-C to 3.5mm that operates in alt mode.
 
The same DAC/amp designer/rebadger/manufacturers are usually only bought by audiophiles though ... and would they use anything less than a headphone without 3.5mm? No. I won't.

 

[deadlylover]

 

 

 

[vantt1]

Nice! Can you try connecting a set of headphones to the 3.5 mm and Lightning simultaneously?

 

[NLNH]

   

wot

 

[deadlylover]

Nice! Can you try connecting a set of headphones to the 3.5 mm and Lightning simultaneously?

 
It automatically switches to the last thing you've plugged in, but funnily enough, both headset controls work. So we can't have 2 outputs at the same time, and I couldn't find any setting to switch between them on the phone, ya gotta do the dongle dance.
 
1kHz tones generated from a random app, voltages are approximate, 1Vrms is maxed out on the phone/dongle. 400mV is just about 2 or 3 clicks from max level.
 
Analyser used: ShibaSoku AM51B, 20kHz filter engaged, RMS sampling mode. (analyser floor has about 5+ times less distortion than the device under test)
 
The iPhone 6+'s main distortion harmonic is on the 2nd, for the dongle it's on the 3rd....you guys can argue which is better. XD (is the 2nd more 'musical' because it occurs naturally or something?)
 


 

 

[DaveLT]

   
It automatically switches to the last thing you've plugged in, but funnily enough, both headset controls work. So we can't have 2 outputs at the same time, and I couldn't find any setting to switch between them on the phone, ya gotta do the dongle dance.
 
1kHz tones generated from a random app, voltages are approximate, 1Vrms is maxed out on the phone/dongle. 400mV is just about 2 or 3 clicks from max level.
 
Analyser used: ShibaSoku AM51B, 20kHz filter engaged, RMS sampling mode. (analyser floor has about 5+ times less distortion than the device under test)
 
The iPhone 6+'s main distortion harmonic is on the 2nd, for the dongle it's on the 3rd....you guys can argue which is better. XD (is the 2nd more 'musical' because it occurs naturally or something?)
 


 

Although, 2nd order is pretty undesirable it is sort of more natural rather than 3rd order which is more like a cliff's face spike. 3rd order is harsh and edgy whereas 2nd order is "fat and warm" what they call "tube distortion"
 
That said, it's too small to make any blind bit of difference generally. Really only audible when we're talking >0.1% into an amp... Not so much at 2.8^10ˉ³% So is it an actual DAC or a passthrough?

 

[deadlylover]

  That said, it's too small to make any blind bit of difference generally. Really only audible when we're talking >0.1% into an amp... Not so much at 2.8^10ˉ³% So is it an actual DAC or a passthrough?

 
It has to be a new DAC/amp, the 2nd vs 3rd harmonic difference is a big tell. (unless I made a mistake reading the harmonics, but I am 95% sure =P)
 
Lightning is purely digital too IIRC.
 
Samsung will no longer source batteries from its own division for the Note 7...now I wonder if we'll see dirt cheap refurb Note 7's, there should be 2.5 million of them floating around eventually right? 

 I think they will save the parts for repairs/replacements though...
 
edit: The connector pins on the lightning connector dongle are not gold plated like the USB lightning cable, the white body is a little bit longer and thicker, the actual cable/wire feels about as soft and pliable as the cable on the earpods.

 

[vantt1]

 

  That said, it's too small to make any blind bit of difference generally. Really only audible when we're talking >0.1% into an amp... Not so much at 2.8^10ˉ³% So is it an actual DAC or a passthrough?

 
It has to be a new DAC/amp, the 2nd vs 3rd harmonic difference is a big tell. (unless I made a mistake reading the harmonics, but I am 95% sure =P)
 
Lightning is purely digital too IIRC.
 
Samsung will no longer source batteries from its own division for the Note 7...now I wonder if we'll see dirt cheap refurb Note 7's, there should be 2.5 million of them floating around eventually right? 

 I think they will save the parts for repairs/replacements though...
 
edit: The connector pins on the lightning connector dongle are not gold plated like the USB lightning cable, the white body is a little bit longer and thicker, the actual cable/wire feels about as soft and pliable as the cable on the earpods.

So...Lightning to 3.5 mm is better than the phone's native 3.5 mm, for the most part? 
 
If anything, we'll surely see replacement Note 7's on the second-hand market soon. 
 
That reminds me, Apple's selling the Lightning-equiped EarPods for the same price as the old ones, yet it contains a DAC in the connector. We'll see what's inside when someone tears it down.

 

[akiroz]

 

 all the distortion figures are negligibly small as expected, nothing to see here folks.