β22 Balanced Headphone Amp: A Comprehensive Review
Jan 2, 2008 at 5:33 PM Post #76 of 91
Very well presented, Nate. I think people get too hung up on one perspective but it is the biggest - cost. Everyone wants to get what they paid for and often have a hard time swallowing that an $1100 amp may best - to some ears - a $2700 amp. It is the world of business economics. Personally, I find that the choices we have today are very exciting. And with patience and time to think that something of Steve's new toy is within realistic reach of building on my own, I find, amazing.
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Jan 2, 2008 at 6:11 PM Post #77 of 91
I am also excited by balanced β22. Like Gilmore amps, born from DIY community, into HeadAmp production...it represents best of two world where it does not have to collide and consumers win. I would love to see more sub $2000 balance amps come into market. Perhaps...S² Audio can build and market "production" β22 amps
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Quote:

Originally Posted by warrior05 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Very well presented, Nate. I think people get too hung up on one perspective but it is the biggest - cost. Everyone wants to get what they paid for and often have a hard time swallowing that an $1100 amp may best - to some ears - a $2700 amp. It is the world of business economics. Personally, I find that the choices we have today are very exciting. And with patience and time to think that something of Steve's new toy is within realistic reach of building on my own, I find, amazing.
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Jan 3, 2008 at 12:48 AM Post #78 of 91
Quote:

Originally Posted by SK138 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Perhaps...S² Audio can build and market "production" β22 amps
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You must have been absent from class the day I explained that me and soldering irons are like Mike Tyson and ears.

Warrior could probably get to that point relatively easily, but there are already some great builders out there building β22s. In fact one builder has posted looking for customers to offset his own build, and he does some beautiful work! Don't look for S² Audio to be building these in the near future. Trimming them possibly, building them? Doubtful anytime soon.

Back to the β22's performance, mine continues to improve with burn in. I thought it had reached it's pinnacle, but not yet. Can anyone give me a rough estimate on burn in hours before I stop noticing very audible improvements?
 
Jan 3, 2008 at 6:17 AM Post #79 of 91
Quote:

Originally Posted by n_maher /img/forum/go_quote.gif
You should go back to last spring's NYC meet thread, Ray himself was more than just a little bit impressed with the single-ended beta22 that I had there as were a few other manufacturers present.
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So, Nate... when are you going finish your balanced β22 and post some pics and impressions?
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Jan 3, 2008 at 1:16 PM Post #80 of 91
I just read through the entire thread and it still amazes that so many people keep thinking that DIY is inferior because it costs less.
Back in April during the headfest07 I was speaking with Tyll from headroom about business and pricing of products. He told me this:

To get a ROUGH estimate of the comercial MSRP of a product you should add all the parts and shipping costs, add the number of work hours @ 12.50$ an hour and multiply the sum by about 1.65. So in the case of a balanced B22 you get 1000-1750$ on parts alone depending on the attenuator and case used. Lets go with a middle value of 1400$ which gives you a nice joshua tree attenuator, custom two case design and professionally made front panels. Now the build time. I would say form my own DIY experience and from what others have said that it takes 25 hours to build one of these, from receiving and unpackaging all the parts, build time and set up, testing and all and add on top of that 5 hours for listening tests and for quality control(something a business should always do) That gives us: 30 hours x 12.5= 375$

1400+375=1775
1775x1.65=2928 so about 3000$ shipping for such a beast with insurance and a sturdy package will cost what? 150$?
I would say that the 65% markup would cover all the bills( human resources, rent, insurance, electricity, internet and phone, and so on)
This value doesn't account for: R&D expenses, marketing and advertising, and other business related expenses, possible sales taxes and the profit that a business company needs. So you see with such an amp would easily go over 5K$.
 
Jan 3, 2008 at 1:25 PM Post #81 of 91
Quote:

Originally Posted by socrates63 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
So, Nate... when are you going finish your balanced β22 and post some pics and impressions?
evil_smiley.gif
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Oh you are so not getting a Christmas card next year! In a simple twist of fate the balanced beta may have been put temporarily on hold if you can believe it. Not sure yet, but rest assured that it remains a high priority and I hope to have it ready for CanJam.
 
Jan 3, 2008 at 2:38 PM Post #82 of 91
Quote:

Originally Posted by n_maher /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Oh you are so not getting a Christmas card next year! In a simple twist of fate the balanced beta may have been put temporarily on hold if you can believe it. Not sure yet, but rest assured that it remains a high priority and I hope to have it ready for CanJam.


Nate, Nate, Nate! That Hertsens Signature DAC is crying out for an amp as serious about fedelity as it is.
Were you building a 4 channel or all out 6 channel behemoth?
 
Jan 3, 2008 at 3:26 PM Post #83 of 91
Quote:

Originally Posted by swt61 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Nate, Nate, Nate! That Hertsens Signature DAC is crying out for an amp as serious about fedelity as it is.


Now come on Steve, you should know that the only thing that would push the beta to the side burner would be something equally serious.
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Show up at CanJam and you just might see something interesting.

Quote:

Were you building a 4 channel or all out 6 channel behemoth?


4-channel, 6 is just a waste of heat/power really since I'll never use it single-ended.
 
Jan 3, 2008 at 4:03 PM Post #84 of 91
Quote:

Originally Posted by n_maher /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Now come on Steve, you should know that the only thing that would push the beta to the side burner would be something equally serious.
eek.gif
Show up at CanJam and you just might see something interesting.



Hmmm, Now my curiousity is really peaked! It would take some serious schedual shuffling to make CanJam, but I haven't ruled it out yet.


Quote:

Originally Posted by n_maher /img/forum/go_quote.gif
4-channel, 6 is just a waste of heat/power really since I'll never use it single-ended.


Yeah, Same for me, but I had a phono jack mounted anyway out of some wierd sense of duty.
 
Jan 6, 2008 at 9:07 PM Post #85 of 91
Quote:

Originally Posted by swt61 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
And nope, it won't be wood.


ok, I read this entire thread (that equals like 10x the number of head-fi postings I've read in the past week) and you don't even spill the beans on this one? hrumph...

Quote:

Originally Posted by swt61 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
At least until the electrostatic rig joins the team, but that's at least a year off. I know there will be lots of static goodness at the next meet to contemplate.


1 year in audiophile terms is like on par with a geological scale of sorts. I have a feeling that you can persuaded...

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Pak /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Are you sure the amp doesn't require time to warm up?


actually, amb might be able to provide some help with this. With my Pass phono stage the spice simulation said things settled down in around 24 hours. This is confirmed by listening... another reason you should stop by on Friday on your way to Dallas
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Jan 6, 2008 at 9:35 PM Post #86 of 91
Quote:

Originally Posted by luvdunhill /img/forum/go_quote.gif
ok, I read this entire thread (that equals like 10x the number of head-fi postings I've read in the past week) and you don't even spill the beans on this one? hrumph...


They will be revealed at the Dallas meet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvdunhill /img/forum/go_quote.gif
1 year in audiophile terms is like on par with a geological scale of sorts. I have a feeling that you can persuaded...


I'm easily persuaded, it's my wallet that's a tougher sell.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by luvdunhill /img/forum/go_quote.gif
actually, amb might be able to provide some help with this. With my Pass phono stage the spice simulation said things settled down in around 24 hours. This is confirmed by listening... another reason you should stop by on Friday on your way to Dallas
smily_headphones1.gif



I'm planning on stopping by. PM me your address and I'll mapquest it. We'll set up a time closer to the 25th. Are you still riding with me, or unsure yet?
 
Jan 6, 2008 at 9:57 PM Post #87 of 91
Quote:

Originally Posted by swt61 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
They will be revealed at the Dallas meet.


Lexan? Granite? Corian? I'm sure you have access to lots of cool material!
 
Jan 6, 2008 at 11:08 PM Post #89 of 91
Quote:

Originally Posted by luvdunhill /img/forum/go_quote.gif
actually, amb might be able to provide some help with this. With my Pass phono stage the spice simulation said things settled down in around 24 hours. This is confirmed by listening... another reason you should stop by on Friday on your way to Dallas
smily_headphones1.gif



Some warm-up time is beneficial, as the MOSFETs and other transistors settle-in to their thermal equilibrium. Depending on the casework and the ventilation, 20 minutes should plenty enough time.
 
Jan 7, 2008 at 1:17 AM Post #90 of 91
Quote:

Originally Posted by amb /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Some warm-up time is beneficial, as the MOSFETs and other transistors settle-in to their thermal equilibrium. Depending on the casework and the ventilation, 20 minutes should plenty enough time.


As I mentioned earlier this timeframe has been my experience as well. It sounds pretty good from a cold start, but a little warm up is beneficial. The amp doesn't run as hot as I expected either. The case gets warm, but not overly so.
 

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