iFi audio Uno

marcelzxc

New Head-Fier
iFi UNO Review
Pros: - Quality construction
- Very small and light
- Price/performance
- No background hiss
- Great sound quality
- Good for IEMs easy to drive
- Supports all type of files
- MQA renderer
- S-Balanced technology
- Power Match
- 3 EQ presets
- Cable size
- Solution to hold on the desk
- Good for casual listeners
Cons: - Audiophiles may want more (?)
- EQ & Power Match buttons are slack
- Lack USB-C to USB-C cable (isn't very important here)
- Not free shipping on iFi AliExpress store

IFI UNO REVIEW​


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>>I am brazilian and I speak portuguese, so forgive my english, I’ll use translator tools to help<<

INTRO:

Here we have for review the newest and most affordable desktop DAC/AMP from iFi Audio: the iFi UNO. The UNO has a different proposal from the other audiophile iFi products, the idea here is to provide an equipment that can serve the casual audience, who are looking for a more affordable and minimalist solution to listen to music, watch movies, or play games.

Remembering that now iFi Audio has an official store on AliExpress, so it was much easier for us to purchase the company’s products.

Previous reviews: ZEN Air DAC, GO link

Official price: $79 USD
Colors: Air Force Blue


iFi Audio store:

https://ifi-audio.com/

https://ifi-audio.com/products/uno/

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DDT7oBh




SPECIFICATIONS:

– DAC Chip: ESS ES9219MQ/Q
– Input: USB-C
– Front output: 3.5mm S-Bal
– Rear output: RCA stereo
– Power supply: USB-C 5V/0.5A
– Power consumption: No Signal ~0.8W Max Signal ~1.5W
– Supports: PCM up to 32-Bit/384kHz; Full Native DSD256; MQA
– LED: Magenta, Green, Yellow, Cyan, Blue
– OS compatible: Android, iOS, Windows, Apple Mac
– EQ presets: Game, Movie, Music
– Cable size: 120cm
– Material: polymer shell with aluminium front plate
– UNO’s size: 8.8 [W] x 2.6 [H] x 8.1 [D] cm
– UNO’s weight: 92g
– Packaging size: 11 [W] x 10.2 [L] x 4.3 [D] cm
– Total weight (packaging, DAC, cable, etc): 152g

Earphone section

– Output: ≥2.6V / 3.5V max. at 32Ω/300Ω
– Output Power: ≥211mW @ 32Ω; 39mW @ 300Ω
– THD+N: ≤0.02% (1.27V @ 16Ω)
– DNR: ≥122dB(A) @ 0dBFS
– SNR: ≥113dBA
– Output Impedance: <1Ω
– Channel separation: ≥80dB (1kHz/600Ω)
– Frequency response: 10-80kHz (-0.5dB)

Line section

– Output: 2V max.
– Output Impedance: <100Ω
– SNR: ≥119dBA
– DNR: ≥110dB @ 0dBFS
– THD+N: ≤0.03% @ 0dBFS


DEVICES USED:

– FiiO JD7
– Moondrop SSR
– FiiO KA5
– Moto Z3Play
– Dell Inspiron (W10)


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PHYSICAL ASPECTS:

This is the third desktop DAC/AMP that I have reviewed, the second from iFi Audio. At this moment, the iFi UNO is the smallest desktop DAC/AMP that I have been able to review, the equipment is really very small, I would say that it is minuscule compared to other desktop amplifiers. The UNO fits in the palm of my hand. The product is also very light, as my friend Mateus Fleite would say: “it’s almost a dongle”.

Let’s talk about the construction of the UNO. It’s covered by a rigid plastic, and the front panel is covered by an aluminum plate. The volume knob (potentiometer) and the other two buttons on the panel are made of plastic. On the right side is the earphone output (3.5mm S-BAL). At the back of the DAC/AMP we have a stereo RCA output, and an USB-C input.

The materials used in the UNO are of very good quality, even though the product is in a more affordable price range, the quality was not neglected by iFi. The only observation I make is that the two buttons (EQ and Power Match) have a little slack, so they make that “loose thing” noise when you touch them.

One observation that I always address when reviewing a desktop DAC/AMP is whether it can remain stable when plugging and unplugging the earphone cable. In this case here with the UNO, something surprised me. It comes with a kind of material that sticks to the desk, I don’t know very well what it is but it’s not an adhesive, but it’s something similar to the fixation effect of an adhesive. To my surprise, the material stuck very well to my desk and the UNO didn’t move while I plugged and unplugged the IEMs. Great solution that iFi found to solve this detail. I really liked it, because this was one of the observations I made for iFi ZEN Air DAC and AUNE Flamingo.

The volume knob (potentiometer) serves to adjust the volume and to turn on and off the DAC/AMP. This I found to be a positive point in the UNO, because I missed this implementation in iFi ZEN Air DAC (it keeps On all the time). In UNO, just turn the volume knob and you hear a “click” and the LED lights up, indicating that the product is on. During volume adjustment, the potentiometer scrolling is smooth, that is, without “clicks”.

RGB LED. The iFi UNO has a RGB LED positioned at the bottom of the volume knob. For each different sampling rate the LED will change the color. The color scheme is as follows: Green (PCM 44.1/48/88.2/96kHz), Yellow (PCM 176.4/192/352.8/384kHz), Cyan (DSD 64/128), Blue (DSD 256), Magenta (MQA renderer V1). As everyone knows, I don’t use high resolution or MQA files, I only use FLAC 16bit/44.1/48kHz and some common streamings like Spotify, Deezer, YouTube, but I think that the more resources the equipment has, the better it will be because then it will meet people who use these larger files.

Equalizer (EQ). The iFi UNO has 3 sound equalization presets: Game, Movie, Music. ATTENTION: these 3 icons on the surface of the product are not buttons, they are just images for the LED to indicate which equalization preset the equipment is running on. It’s by the “EQ” button on front panel that we make the preset changes. I say this because at first I thought they were buttons. In truth here in UNO we have 4 presets if we count that there’s an option to not use any preset and then we have a fourth available sound which is the native sound of the equipment.

Power Match. Another well-known feature in the iFi Audio equipments: the Power Match. So, this feature is basically an extra gain to the sound. The feature can be activated by the “Power Match” button on the front panel of the UNO. The feature has a small white LED just below the button, so it’s possible to know when it is activated or not. I will write about the sound in the “sound aspects” section.

S-Balanced Connection (S-BAL). iFi has a proprietary technology called “S-Balanced” that makes the 3.5mm single ended output have the features of a balanced output, which implies less distortion and less crosstalk (channel invasion) in the sound. It’s a normal output, you can connect your 3.5mm (P2) earphones that will work (TRS or TRRS). The more technical explanation about iFi’s S-Balanced system can be found at this link.


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Cable. The UNO comes with an USB-A <> USB-C cable. This time iFi got it right with the cable that comes with the product. I say this because in the iFi ZEN Air DAC I did a small criticism of the cable they put in the product. Fortunately, here in the UNO they changed for the better (in my opinion). The cable is 120cm long, which allows for good positioning of the UNO on the desk, with this size it’s possible to place the DAC/AMP on the left or right side of your computer without worrying about the availability of USB ports – in the last case just pass the cable behind the computer.

Heating test. I did a test to feel if the iFi UNO heats up the surface too much. The test was made during one hour of playback and the UNO with the Power Match on, the potentiometer at “twelve o’clock”, and Windows volume at 100%. I can say that after 1h, the product showed no signs of surface heating. I found this to be a very positive point, especially since I used it with “high gain” activated.

Firmware Update. These audio devices are always receiving new firmware updates, here with iFi UNO I saw that it already has 3 versions available – version V1.87, V1.89, V2.40. The unit I am reviewing was on V1.89 version and then I updated to the latest version (V2.40). Updating firmware is very simple, anyone can do it without worrying, just follow the tutorial that iFi provides. You can find the files to update firmware here at this link: https://ifi-audio.com/support/download-hub/

The iFi UNO was recognized immediately as soon as I connected it to my notebook (Plug&Play), meaning I didn’t need to install any drivers for it to be recognized (Windows10). If your computer needs to install any drivers, the file can be found at the same link mentioned in the paragraph above. I did all sound evaluation with the equipment connected to my notebook, but I tested the UNO quickly connected to my smartphone and it worked fine, just need to have an USBC <> USB-C OTG (on-the-go) cable [not included in product].

The UNO has the possibility of being used as a DAC/Pre-AMP for an amplifier or speakers due to its stereo analog RCA output on the back of the equipment. Unfortunately, I didn’t have a chance to test this feature because I don’t use speakers or amplifiers. Just as I didn’t test with headphones, that’s not within this website’s (IEMs and Music) scope.


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SOUND ASPECTS:

It must be remembered that this analysis is subjective, based on my experience with the product and also on the synergy with the other equipment I used here. I also already inform you that the more objectivist part of the hobby isn’t really my beach, so it may be that some information can be limited, I don’t have much knowledge about the technical side of this type of product.

iFi itself shows in the product presentation that the UNO is intended for the general public, people who don’t have much notion of what is inside in a device like this to make it produce sound, but that they do want to have a gain in quality in their music, movies or games. So, fortunately, the UNO has components like to other more sophisticated iFi products, and therefore, the result couldn’t be other than iFi presenting to us an excellent product here in terms of cost-benefit.

For me, the audio quality of the iFi UNO is great. According to iFi, the DAC chip used in the UNO is from ESS Technology company, model ES9219MQ/Q, exactly the same DAC chip used in the iFi GO link dongle that I reviewed recently. The iFi UNO is another DAC/AMP that has impeccable quality, I even dare to say that for my use – only IEMs – the iFi UNO manages to have a better price/performance than the iFi ZEN Air DAC, mainly due to the price, equipment size, and because iFi brought some of the improvements that I criticized in the ZEN Air DAC review.

As I said above, the sound that I was able to hear with the iFi UNO was great, the equipment delivers performance in transparency, definition, clarity and detail. I didn’t notice any distortion, coloration, noise floor (hiss) or strange sound during the time that I was testing this DAC/AMP.

Equalizer (EQ). Speaking about the sound of the EQ presets of the UNO, I already anticipate to you not getting too excited… Yes, the feature really makes a difference in sound for each selected mode, but I honestly thought that the modifications aren’t so expressive (in my opinion). The good thing is that since each person feels things differently, it may be that for someone these presets end up having a bigger difference.

Continuing, if the person wants a little more emphasis on bass, the Game mode is the best option, if they want a little more presence in mids/vocals, the Movie mode is the best option, and if they want a more “natural” mode without much change in sound, the Music mode is ideal. There is still sound without any EQ preset, which was my ideal option and which I couldn’t even distinguish between this mode (without EQ) and Music mode.

Power Match. As mentioned before, iFi’s Power Match is the same as a gain button and here in my tests I enjoyed this feature on UNO. The sound really has an increase in power and it is very noticeable when the Power Match is on or off. I even preferred to set it activated and lower it a little more on the volume knob (potentiometer). The sound grows and expands and you notice better dynamics in the bass. It’s a gain feature that will give an extra boost to your sound.

Amplification. The iFi UNO has 211mW at 32 Ohms which is already more than enough to push 99% of today’s IEMs. Here in this review I used two IEMs that don’t require much amplification – FiiO JD7 and Moondrop SSR – although SSR scales well when you plug it into a more powerful source. For me both IEMs showed great performance with this DAC/AMP. In terms of volume I always set it there at “twelve o’clock” and with Windows volume at Max (100% of volume scale) and I confess it was enough for my ears. So from where I set it until the end of volume it gets quite loud. It’s so loud that it’s kind of dangerous trying to listen closer to the final volume.

Comparative. I have been using the FiiO KA5 dongle in my reviews, so it’s my reference source at the moment to compare with another device. Please keep in mind that they are extremely different devices, but it’s just a comparison with the intention of enriching the text with as much information as possible. The configuration was like this: KA5 on high gain, 120 steps (max vol) and 50% on Windows; UNO was on high gain, “twelve o’clock” on the volume knob, and 100% on Windows. The result was that iFi UNO presented itself in a warmer way, with a little more smoothness in the sound, while KA5 presented a sound more focused on mids, with more detail, and I would say that the presentation was more “analytical”.


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SenyorC

100+ Head-Fier
What's a DAC? It doesn't matter!
Pros: Price, performance, sound, simplicity, size...
Cons: Lack of simple mic input...
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The iFi Audio Uno was sent to me directly by iFi Audio in exchange for the publication of this review. iFi have not made any specific requests and I will follow my aim to be as honest and unbiased as humanly possible, as with all my reviews.

You can find the official page for the iFi Uno here: https://ifi-audio.com/products/uno/

As always, this is a non-affilate link.

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Intro…

The Uno is a recent launch from iFi Audio and I have to say that I feel it is a very good piece of equipment. I am not referring to the performance of the device (I will talk about that in a moment) but more the fact of what it is and who it is aimed at.

For those of us that are immersed in the land of headphones, IEMs, DAC’s, amplifiers, etc. we would probably think “why would iFi launch a device like this?”. Yet for the vast majority of people out there who use headphones (or desktop speakers), they probably don’t even know what a DAC is, much less if they need one or not.

If we take a look on Amazon, there are a bunch of cheap items labelled as “soundcards” and quite a few budget USB audio interfaces also but in most cases, the quality of the audio we get from these devices leaves a lot to be desired. Yes, there are exceptions, but that usually involves research and to research something, you need to know what it is that you are researching. So many times, things are just purchased based on price versus number of stars on Amazon (which can also leave a lot to be desired).

Here is where the Uno enters the game. iFi are obviously a company that have been in the audio game for a long time and have experience making some very good stuff and while they already have a budget line of DACs and amplifiers (the Air line, which I tested not too long ago), they can still be a little overwhelming for those that know nothing about what they are or what they do. The Uno is a little different, it is a very simple device, with simple EQ options that is aimed to just “work” for those that probably don’t even know what they are missing until they try it.

I don’t think the Uno is something that is going to make the wish list of most audiophiles but have to say that I have been using it as an all-in-one desktop solution for the past week in my office and it is something that I could see most of my co-workers enjoying without even knowing what it is.

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Presentation…

The Uno arrives in the typical iFi style, a white box that is simple but shows enough info on the exterior, with a card insert that slides out containing the device and the typical iFi paperwork. Along with the Uno, we get a USB A to USB C cable and that is it. But that is all we really need anyway.

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Build and aesthetics…

My first thought when I got the Uno out of the box was “Wow! This is tiny!”. I had seen photos and obviously the box is also small but it wasn’t until I actually had it in my hand that Irealized how small and light this device actually is.

The exterior is built from plastic, similar in build and aesthetics to the iFi Air range, fitting easily in the palm of my hand and weighing just about nothing. While it is of course larger than a dongle, it is still small enough to fit in just about any bag or even the pocket of your jeans. I wouldn’t suggest trying to use it connected to your cell phone in your pocket but you probably could quite easily. I have seen DAPs that are much larger than a cell phone + Uno 😀

While being plastic and lightweight, I don’t have any complaints about the build (or aesthetics) of the unit. It seems to be well constructed and I have no doubt that it will withstand general use and abuse without issues.

One of the drawbacks of a device being lightweight is that the weight of cables will usually drag the device every which way, yet the Uno has two adhesive strips located on the bottom of the unit, allowing it to be fixed to whatever location is preferred.

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Functionality…

The Uno is simple but it still has a few functions that will make basic users lives a lot easier.

On the back of the unit we find a USB-C port and a set of RCA’s providing an unbalanced output for speakers (or another headphone amp if you wish). O haven’t tried it with any Apply devices as I don’t own any but with Windows and Android I have experienced no issues with it connecting and being recognized. In fact, it is the only iFi device I have that works when connected to my docking station in the office, usually I have to connect them directly to a port on my PC.

On the front of the device, from left to right, we find the EQ button, the Power Match Button, the volume knob and a 3.5mm output.

Finally on the top of the unit there are 3 lights, one showing a gaming controller, one showing the YouTube logo and on showing a musical note.

As you may have guessed, these 3 lights on the top of the device show the EQ that we are currently set to. By pressing the EQ button we can cycle between off/gaming/video/music, each of them tweaked by iFi in an aim to provide the best response with the least amount of hassle.

The power match button is iFi’s way of naming gain, basically we can switch between high and low gain. For those that have no idea why we would want to do that (which I can understand a lot of those that may be interested in the Uno not really knowing), it allows us to increase the output level for things that are more difficult (or easier) to drive. In other words, if we have a set of headphones that needs more power, rather than turning the volume knob up to full, we just set the gain (or the Power Match in this case) to high and we can have more power available without needing to turn the know up as far. There is also a small white LED at the side of the button that shows when the device is in high gain.

The volume knob itself is very smooth and although it is small, I find it very comfortable to use. There is enough space around it to grip it correctly with two fingers and adjust without issues. The knob also serves as an on/off switch when turned all the way down. While turning the unit to off will disconnect it from our device, it is necessary to reach the actual resistive part of the knob before it disconnects (something that is not always the case on other devices, tending to disconnect before actually reach all the way down on the pot). If it is turned off, I found that when turning it back on, the connection was immediate, with almost no delay (at least on my Windos 10 machines).

That's it as far as functionality, you connect a USB cable from the source to the Uno, plug in either your speakers to the back or headphones to the front, and away you go.

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My use case…

I actually went about this device in a different way to the usual way I would test a DAC/Amp combo. While I did try it out with some higher end headphones and feeding a couple of my desktop amplifiers, I really wanted to put this unit through its paces in the habitat that I feel it is designed for.

I placed the Uno on my desk at work and disconnected all other devices from my PC, focusing on using the Uno for my usual day to day life at my desk. This involves music listening, conference calls, some video content now and again and, in general, a little bit of everything.

I also aimed to use just some of the “normal” headphones and IEMs that I would usually have laying around in the office. To be totally honest, I don’t have that many “mainstream user” headphones, so I mostly used a few Koss models (the KPH40 are usually my office go to anyway), the Beyerdynamic Custom Studio, the Dunu Kima, the Cadenza and the HD6XX.

It is not that I am against trying out higher end headphones, it is just that, realistically, I can’t see someone who is using something like a Hifiman Arya looking at the Uno to drive them.

As far as the use of the device (I will get to sound in a moment), I have had no issues at all. It is simple to use and I really can’t fault it for the intended purpose. The only thing that I feel is a bit of a missed opportunity is the lack of a mic input.

I know that adding a microphone input would result in the need for an ADC (Analog to Digital Converter) and some way of controlling the level of the mic, which would add up to more complexity and probably more cost. However, as I see this as something to be used for simple gaming and multimedia etc., I think that a simple mic input would have been a big benefit to those casual gamers out there. I am not saying that it should have a professional studio mic input, just something simple like the mic inputs found already on PC’s and phones etc. I guess you could argue the fact that this is redundant, as PC’s already have these, but I still think it would have been something to attract those casual gamers who want to use something like a mod mic.

Again, not a complaint, just an observation from my side.

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Sound…

This little device sounds surprisingly good. I honestly expected less in terms of sound quality from it!

Starting off with power, it had absolutely no problem driving any of the headphones and IEMs mentioned above to ranges way above what I would ever need. Even the HD6XX, which is a 300 Ohm set of headphones, was still driven well within the capacity of the Uno. I am not going to say that I haven’t heard the HD6XX sound better, I have, but I really don’t think that anyone who is not into the whole “synergy” and “last 10% quest” would have any complaints about the performance (unless they have actually heard the HD6XX on a system that brings out the best in it), I certainly don’t.

As far as the actual sound itself, well obviously it depends on the EQ selected. Let me just point out that the EQ function does not affect the output of the RCA’s, which remain constant no matter what EQ profile is selected. The same goes for Gain, it has no effect on the DAC outputs at the rear.

So here is a comparison of the 4 EQ modes via the headphone output. In this case, instead of just measuring the output into an interface, I took the measurements while driving the Dunu Kima IEMs (the ones I had closest at the time) so as to get a reference of real world changes (in other words, these shouldn’t be flat lines, the “No EQ” line is the one to be referenced against the others).

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One thing to mention is than the EQ is done completely in the analog domain, something that is always the case with iFi Audio devices. This means that there is no change to the digital file, the EQ happens after this is converted to analog.

So, as you can see in the graph, there is quite a difference between frequency responces of the 4 modes.

The gaming mode adds quite a boost in the low ranges, along with a boosted 4 to 5kHz region. I guess (coming from a non-gamer) that this is to improve the explosions in the low range along with presence for things like footsteps. As said, I don’t game, so I can’t say how well this works but using this EQ for music does not work well for me personally. It brings out harshness in the tracks but that is not what the EQ setting is for.

The movie mode adds less of a boost in the lower ranges and brings up the 2 to 3kHz range instead of the 4 to 5kHz range. This works well for bringing out clarity in voices in a lot of movies. With movies (and series) that are dubbed into Spanish, the voices are a lot of the time los in a stereo presentation (i.e: without a center channel speaker) and this EQ actually works well to bring some clarity back and make the more intelligible. It also doesn’t work terrible for some music that has a lack of presence in vocals, such as “Make Noise”, where it helps bring the vocals of Busta Rhymes forwards. I wouldn’t personally choose this for music enjoyment (as the upper presence is a too much for the majority of music and can make it sound a bit fragile) but I do find it works quite well for movie content, especially that dubbed into Spanish.

The music mode just adds a boost to the low end, equal to the movie EQ but without touching the upper frequencies. While this is different to the XBass found on other iFi products (their XBass varies from product to product), the idea is the same and I have to say that I really enjoyed it with some of my more “bass shy” IEMs. It is a bit much for all of my lkistening but depending on genre and especially IEMs, I did find myself using (and enjoying) the music mode.

I guess I should also mention how the Uno sounds without EQ activated and I have to say it sounds pretty darn good. While it is not really the exact iFi house sound, it is still very reminiscent of it, giving a little warmth to the presentation without seeming to have a negative impact on the overall presentation. I am not sure how iFi manage to keep their “flavour” in their devices even when they move away from the BB chips they usually opt for, but they do.

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Conclusion…

I have to say that I really think the iFi Uno is a great device for its intended audience. For those that spend a lot of time in front of a computer consuming different media content, then it offers a simple but well thought out way of doing so.

It’s small enough to fit anywhere, it could even be attached to the back of a laptop screen with the included sticky pads, and offers a performance that should be more than adequate for 99% of those who aren’t invested in that search of the holy grail in audiophile terms.

The Uno has a “sit back and forget it” sound to it, working well with almost anything I plugged into it and I can’t see why anyone who isn’t a declared audiophile would have any issues with the sound. In fact, even for those that are declared audiophiles but on a budget, I think it offers a lot.

I did mention that I would have liked to see a simple mic input for something like a boom mic but that is not a complaint, just something that I see would make it that little bit more appealing for the gamers and also those that would use it in an office environment.

Other than that, all I can say is that the iFi Uno is a surprisingly good little device.

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As usual, this review can also be found in Spanish both on my blog (www.achoreviews.com) and on YouTube (www.youtube.com/achoreviews)
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Alex.Grimm
Alex.Grimm
Headset 3.5 microphone works?

Headphones and Coffee

Previously known as Wretched Stare
Love this little device
Pros: Sound quality, price, features and simple to use. power for 300ohm
Cons: No 4.4mm, made of all plastic, not the ifi signature we are used to this could be good too.
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The ifi UNO is a new breed of Mini DAC-Amp it's made for desktop use but I've traveled around with it comfortable in my coat pocket on walks and outings. It comes in a modest box and with just a USB A to C cable and documentation. The construction is light and all plastic but at just under $80 it's not a big problem and is well made and doesn't feel cheap even so.

The UNO worked well with everything I used on it, from full sized 250-Ohm cans to all BA in ear monitors it handles them with power and grace. This one is different but familiar having that ifi Zen look with a much smaller body it could have easily been called the Zen mini. I like the EQ and while I tested it on all three modes the Music was my favorite by far. The UNO worked well for movies and games, enhancing the sound far better than the average dongle or the devices 3.5mm.

Sound: The ifi UNO is different from the Zen and other products because gone is the Burr-Brown chips usually used in ifi products, instead the Uno employs an ESS Sabre Hyper-stream DAC chipset, and it supports PCM (up to 32bit/384kHz sample rates) and DSD and MQA.
This has a good full rich presentation; it has details and is north of neutral with a warmish colored and pleasant sound. The UNO has a much-appreciated musicality, purists will not find it pleasing but music lovers will be happy with its performance and power.

Afterthoughts:
The ifi UNO is a great product, it offers the budget minded user with a versatile, powerful and enjoyable little device that fits on your desktop and even your pocket, I would like to say I've fallen in love with this little guy's fun signature.







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o0genesis0o
o0genesis0o
I was going to ask whether it works from a phone, and then I saw the thumb nail of you video :beyersmile: Short and concise review that gives me all the infos that I need. Great job!
I
Ieonasj
does this works with 70ohm 98db headphone?
digitalnomad
digitalnomad
If you could talk a little more to how the sound compares to the Zen that'd be much appreciated
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