[landroni]

  The closest I could get to matching the Soundaware (as the UI of it is a PITA to use) is this horrendously expensive combination:

 
Raspberry PI running Linux > iUSB 3 (using a transformer with similar specs to the optional expensive iFi one) > Audiophilleo 1.

Have you ever experimented with the dirt-cheap:
Raspberry Pi > Hifiberry Digi+
 
which outputs Coax SPDIF?  (There is standard version and for 5 bucks a version with galvanic isolation of the Coax output.) Would love to hear impressions on how it fares compared with pricey setups like the above (Soundaware, Audiophileo, DI-U8)...
 
My intuition is that it simplifies the chain to a minimum and outputs directly Coax SPDIF, so it could give pricier USB solutions a run for their money...

 

[yfei]

Amarra from Playlist and Audrovana do add a rounded analogue sound on this clean sheet of paper.  i-tunes is the rawest and least analogue of all of them with fidelia adding only a slight amount of analogue flavor.  

have you tried Foobar2000 and JRiver?    how do they compare?

 

[Xcalibur255]

All this talk about which input is best can drive a person crazy.
 
I went hunting for a PC sound card that isn't crazy expensive (read:  a professional product) which is capable of passing the native sampling rate of the source being played as opposed to jumping into the control panel and changing the output sampling setting manually every time the need arises.  Apparently this is just a completely alien concept because I can't find one that can do it.  I was hoping to get on board with using the coax input this way, but having to manually change sampling rates each time you change between a high-res and redbook song is a bit of a usability snag.
 
So I guess USB it is.

 

[Currawong]

  "I always ran Bifrost with 24/96 input, upsampled by my Mac," Dave said, "Because it sounded best to me that way. But with Yggy, I always run the native sample rate and bit depth...because you can hear what the computer upsampling is doing. Yuck."
 

 
Yup, because instead of using Mike's filter, up-sampling will bypass it. The default up-sampling on a Mac is (or rather was as they've since changed it) rather crap.
 

  I also find SPDIF better than USB, but sound is louder from SPDIF (does anyone know why ?)...it may induce some bias.
 

 
Have you measured that? Even with a smartphone app? Might be worth nailing down what is going on there as for the volume to have been changed between sources, one of them must have a digital volume being employed.
 

 

  I have the latest Audio-gd Digital Interface on the way as I'm taking a bet, from past experience, that it might synergise well. 

Hi Amos
 
Are you referring to DI-U8? If so, I am very much interested to know the performance of this one. 

 
Yup. I have a couple of different converters here now which I'm looking forward to trying. Dare I suggest it, but it'd be interesting to know what the output of the Gen. 3 USB is on Yggy's main board. If it is I2S, as mad as the suggestion may sound to Mike, it'd be great to have a switchable I2S option for those of us that have transports with that output.

Have you ever experimented with the dirt-cheap:
Raspberry Pi > Hifiberry Digi+
 
which outputs Coax SPDIF? 

 
I've thought about it. Certainly cheap enough to be worth a shot.

 

[Ali-Pacha]

 
Have you measured that? Even with a smartphone app? Might be worth nailing down what is going on there as for the volume to have been changed between sources, one of them must have a digital volume being employed.

Yes, it is very simple.
Take a CD. Rip it into flac, whatever the ripping software. Read the files, the sound is a bit lower than what you get from any CD transport.
No matter the computer / reading software / USB cable used.
It's no annoying by any means...just a fact.

Ali

 

[Tbone289]

   
I went hunting for a PC sound card that isn't crazy expensive (read:  a professional product) which is capable of passing the native sampling rate of the source being played as opposed to jumping into the control panel and changing the output sampling setting manually every time the need arises.  Apparently this is just a completely alien concept because I can't find one that can do it.  I was hoping to get on board with using the coax input this way, but having to manually change sampling rates each time you change between a high-res and redbook song is a bit of a usability snag.

 
You shouldn't have to switch sample rates with any sound card as long as your playback application can take exclusive control of your playback device.  Even on-board S/PDIF will follow the source file's sampling rate in applications like foobar2000, JRiver, etc in exclusive mode.  The "default format" bit depth/sample rate setting in the control panel is for shared mode sounds only.

 

[Currawong]

 

 
Have you measured that? Even with a smartphone app? Might be worth nailing down what is going on there as for the volume to have been changed between sources, one of them must have a digital volume being employed.

Yes, it is very simple.
Take a CD. Rip it into flac, whatever the ripping software. Read the files, the sound is a bit lower than what you get from any CD transport.
No matter the computer / reading software / USB cable used.
It's no annoying by any means...just a fact.

Ali

I don't have a CD transport, only USB to S/PDIF converters + one streaming server. It doesn't make sense to me, but if I do hear any differences between inputs that are too obvious I'll double-check the levels.
 
The Audio-gd DI8 arrived tonight by the way. I'll leave it on for a couple of weeks before I give impressions, but so far they are very promising. Initially though, the Yggy doesn't like the BNC output of the DI8, so if anyone does order one, getting BNC on both outputs is probably a good idea, as the RCA output doesn't use the current technology.

 

[Ali-Pacha]

Some nitpicking things don't get lots of interest, like the 50/75 ohms BNC issue (here : http://www.head-fi.org/t/766347/schiit-yggdrasil-impressions-thread/1770#post_12328628 ).
That's the way it is down there 

 
Ali

 

[landroni]

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 
 the Yggy doesn't like the BNC output of the DI8, so if anyone does order one, getting BNC on both outputs is probably a good idea

Hmm... "doesn't like / bad idea" or "does like / good idea"?

 

[Baldr]

 

I'm no cable zealot nor electronic engineer, but I find it a bit strange to consider such a high-end product can deal with impedance mismatch... Here's Mike's statement about "best" connector on Yggy : 
Quote:

  SPDIF IMHO  Either BNC (slightly preferred) or Coax
 

Is this still true with the wrong / 50 ohm BNC connector ? 

 
Yes.  It turns out that this error began when 50 ohm BNC connectors were installed instead of 75 ohm ones is trivial and irrelevant at such low frequencies.  Perhaps you haven't read the thread since you called us out the first time with this identical question.  If you had done so, you would of course be aware of the tests by a third party demonstrating identical performance on both 50 and 75 ohm connectors.  The connector is there for convenience and versatility.  For emphasis, my answer to your question is still YES.
 
Since the Yggydrasil is upgradable, it is likely that 5 years down the road we will see a huge majority of them back. Since we have specified the connector as a 75 ohm one, as they come back for upgrade, the connector will be automatically fixed.  If you want it done sooner, you may follow the remedy above in your first post.
 
Summary - I blew it but got lucky on a part sub error because it makes no difference in the real world.  We also got lucky because it is an input used by a very small percentage of Yggy users.   We will replace 'em all for free as they get upgraded. 

 

[Currawong]

 

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 
 the Yggy doesn't like the BNC output of the DI8, so if anyone does order one, getting BNC on both outputs is probably a good idea

Hmm... "doesn't like / bad idea" or "does like / good idea"?

Too many post edits screwed the sentence. The BNC output is a current output, which doesn't work with the Yggy. The RCA output is a regular output and does work. When ordering, if using a BNC cable is desired, for Yggy's BNC input, I recommend requesting the RCA output socket be replaced by a BNC socket to facilitate this.

 

[Ali-Pacha]

   
Yes.  It turns out that this error began when 50 ohm BNC connectors were installed instead of 75 ohm ones is trivial and irrelevant at such low frequencies.  Perhaps you haven't read the thread since you called us out the first time with this identical question.  If you had done so, you would of course be aware of the tests by a third party demonstrating identical performance on both 50 and 75 ohm connectors.  The connector is there for convenience and versatility.  For emphasis, my answer to your question is still YES.
 
Since the Yggydrasil is upgradable, it is likely that 5 years down the road we will see a huge majority of them back. Since we have specified the connector as a 75 ohm one, as they come back for upgrade, the connector will be automatically fixed.  If you want it done sooner, you may follow the remedy above in your first post.
 
Summary - I blew it but got lucky on a part sub error because it makes no difference in the real world.  We also got lucky because it is an input used by a very small percentage of Yggy users.   We will replace 'em all for free as they get upgraded. 

Your point about very few people are using BNC is SO true that I would never have used it until I read your assessment about it as the "best" input for Yggy (apart from AES/EBU). Take it as a little downside on your way to do things, especially you and Jason personally involved here and there...when it comes to something a bit technical, we are all waiting for maker's assessment, wether it is a minor question or not. And I'm not different from the others... 

 
BTW, thank you very much for your very precise answer, Mike 
(And also for your announcement about some upgrade in the 4 coming years 

)
 
Ali

 

[rsbrsvp]

I’m surprised that the BNC could be better than USB input.  Coaxial cables add jitter to the signal.  USB has much lower jitter to my knowledge.  The issue with USB is computer noise but that can be solved with a proper linear power supply for your PC- then you get low jitter of USB and low noise.
 
If you use BNC or RCA input I recommend trying some attenuators at the end of the cable right before the input stage.  This reduces reflections and jitter.  If you over attenuate however the signal may not be strong enough for the dac to read it.  You need to experiment with how much to attenuate.

 

[comzee]

 
I’m surprised that the BNC could be better than USB input.

I was reading this review, it goes into some details about the different input impressions he had, within the realm of comparison to an MSB analog. 
 
He said USB was the closest he got to what the MSB was doing, while bnc/rca softened the signal (paraphrasing).
With the regeneration system the Ygg has built in, all of this input talk is the highest grade of "take it with a grain of salt" imo. 

 

[Currawong]

 
I’m surprised that the BNC could be better than USB input.  Coaxial cables add jitter to the signal.  USB has much lower jitter to my knowledge.  The issue with USB is computer noise but that can be solved with a proper linear power supply for your PC- then you get low jitter of USB and low noise.
 
If you use BNC or RCA input I recommend trying some attenuators at the end of the cable right before the input stage.  This reduces reflections and jitter.  If you over attenuate however the signal may not be strong enough for the dac to read it.  You need to experiment with how much to attenuate.

Jitter shouldn't be an issue. USB, however, doesn't send a continuous signal, but is far more complex. Supposedly all the negotiation between components causes the USB chips to generate noise, which can leak into the DAC and cause distortion, hence why audiophile players that hog the USB connection are supposed to improve the sound quality.
 
The Soundaware transport, using AES or S/PDIF is still winning here, with the ~$2k worth of iFi and Audiophilleo components a close second. The Audio-gd looks like it will win the bargain war at 1/8th of the cost and come in third. I haven't tried any of the other USB converters, purifiers or whatever, except the Wyrd.