bzippy
100+ Head-Fier
I've had just a couple days comparing these two but I think I've heard enough to make my decision. Source is FiiO X3 LO (wma lossless files) and headphones are Senn HD600.
I have had the Cayin for a few weeks and the whole reason I even considered the E12 is that for most recordings the C5 bass boost is too much for the HD600's. But they do need just a little help way down low, so the famous subtlety of the E12 v1 bass boost got my attention.
Right off, there's no question: the C5 is wider and seems more detailed, but not by all that much (more on this later). The E12 is more forward in the mids, and therefore most vocals/guitars stand out more. The C5 sounds a bit like the vocalists took a half step back from the mic. The C5 also has just a bit more sparkle on top, while the FiiO is famously a bit rolled off up there. This difference in high end is perhaps most noticeable with stringed instruments, which are a bit more life-like thru the C5. As for the low end (unboosted), I have tried and tried but I can't hear a difference at all, so there. Now I can't say I understand where sound stage and detail come from, but I wonder whether this difference in space has something to do with the differences in the mids and the very high end. Would the E12's presentation seem wider and more detailed if the vocals were more recessed like the C5 and it had the same sparkle? I dunno, but I'm guessing it might. (I'll have to re-read that sound stage thread.)
But I want to add a general comment that the differences in these amps is not a lot. Sometimes I have to really listen pretty hard to hear any of these differences (depending on my current state of ear fatigue), and even then the differences disappear pretty quickly, like in just a few seconds after switching and my brain settles in to the new sound. It is nothing at all like the differences you hear when changing headphones, just to put it in perspective. Perhaps it would be more striking if I could flip a switch to go between amps, but it takes me a few seconds to move two cables from one amp to the other. And if the differences disappear that easily, that means to me these two amps are more similar than different. Bear in mind that I'm sort of a HP noob and I don't claim to have golden ears, so ymmv.
Now to the feature issue (for me): bass boost. The E12 v1 is clearly the king of subtle, lol, no doubt. In fact it's almost non-existent and I have no trouble believing that FiiO received enough feedback on this to prompt the change they made for the std production model. But I agree with all the guys around here who much prefer this subtle version. It adds just a bit of thump to things like kick drums and the lowest notes of bass instruments. In a perfect world I might add just a couple more dB's to the boost curve, but for most recordings I much prefer it to the C5 and the current E12 boosts. Since some recordings need it, some need more and some not all, I think the only way to really improve the E12 v1 boost for my ears/cans would be with finer control via a pot or three way boost level switch or something (OFF/LOW/HIGH switch, now THAT would be awesome), but keeping the peak of the curve right where it is. As far as I know, there is not yet a portable amp that has this much control over the EQ. Don't know why. So until that amp comes out (and with enough power for my Senns), the E12 v1 is my favorite portable bass boost.
OK then to my final verdict: it's the E12 v1 for me and the C5 is going back. The forward vocals and more suitable bass boost are just enough to make up for what little is lost in space and detail. And frankly the fact that this is such a hard unit to find makes it really hard for me let it go. So I'm gonna live with the E12 for a while and see how it goes. I can easily get another C5 if the nagging thought of wanting more detail ever gets the best of me.
I hope this was helpful. I'll do my best to answer any questions or elaborate if anyone would like.
Edit:
After almost a week it is clear that the E12's battery lasts much monger than the C5. This is not scientific because I measured the battery life for neither device (and the C5 has already been shipped back), but I remember it being mildly annoying that after approx 3 listening sessions the C5 would die. In contrast, I've been listening to the E12 sporadically for almost a week (including a late night movie) and the low battery indicator has not started flashing yet. Score one more point for the E12.
I have had the Cayin for a few weeks and the whole reason I even considered the E12 is that for most recordings the C5 bass boost is too much for the HD600's. But they do need just a little help way down low, so the famous subtlety of the E12 v1 bass boost got my attention.
Right off, there's no question: the C5 is wider and seems more detailed, but not by all that much (more on this later). The E12 is more forward in the mids, and therefore most vocals/guitars stand out more. The C5 sounds a bit like the vocalists took a half step back from the mic. The C5 also has just a bit more sparkle on top, while the FiiO is famously a bit rolled off up there. This difference in high end is perhaps most noticeable with stringed instruments, which are a bit more life-like thru the C5. As for the low end (unboosted), I have tried and tried but I can't hear a difference at all, so there. Now I can't say I understand where sound stage and detail come from, but I wonder whether this difference in space has something to do with the differences in the mids and the very high end. Would the E12's presentation seem wider and more detailed if the vocals were more recessed like the C5 and it had the same sparkle? I dunno, but I'm guessing it might. (I'll have to re-read that sound stage thread.)
But I want to add a general comment that the differences in these amps is not a lot. Sometimes I have to really listen pretty hard to hear any of these differences (depending on my current state of ear fatigue), and even then the differences disappear pretty quickly, like in just a few seconds after switching and my brain settles in to the new sound. It is nothing at all like the differences you hear when changing headphones, just to put it in perspective. Perhaps it would be more striking if I could flip a switch to go between amps, but it takes me a few seconds to move two cables from one amp to the other. And if the differences disappear that easily, that means to me these two amps are more similar than different. Bear in mind that I'm sort of a HP noob and I don't claim to have golden ears, so ymmv.
Now to the feature issue (for me): bass boost. The E12 v1 is clearly the king of subtle, lol, no doubt. In fact it's almost non-existent and I have no trouble believing that FiiO received enough feedback on this to prompt the change they made for the std production model. But I agree with all the guys around here who much prefer this subtle version. It adds just a bit of thump to things like kick drums and the lowest notes of bass instruments. In a perfect world I might add just a couple more dB's to the boost curve, but for most recordings I much prefer it to the C5 and the current E12 boosts. Since some recordings need it, some need more and some not all, I think the only way to really improve the E12 v1 boost for my ears/cans would be with finer control via a pot or three way boost level switch or something (OFF/LOW/HIGH switch, now THAT would be awesome), but keeping the peak of the curve right where it is. As far as I know, there is not yet a portable amp that has this much control over the EQ. Don't know why. So until that amp comes out (and with enough power for my Senns), the E12 v1 is my favorite portable bass boost.
OK then to my final verdict: it's the E12 v1 for me and the C5 is going back. The forward vocals and more suitable bass boost are just enough to make up for what little is lost in space and detail. And frankly the fact that this is such a hard unit to find makes it really hard for me let it go. So I'm gonna live with the E12 for a while and see how it goes. I can easily get another C5 if the nagging thought of wanting more detail ever gets the best of me.
I hope this was helpful. I'll do my best to answer any questions or elaborate if anyone would like.
Edit:
After almost a week it is clear that the E12's battery lasts much monger than the C5. This is not scientific because I measured the battery life for neither device (and the C5 has already been shipped back), but I remember it being mildly annoying that after approx 3 listening sessions the C5 would die. In contrast, I've been listening to the E12 sporadically for almost a week (including a late night movie) and the low battery indicator has not started flashing yet. Score one more point for the E12.
), I went back and tried the E12.
