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Formula 1-fi (Read the First Post!)
Jun 26, 2017 at 10:53 AM Post #3,406 of 3,854
Hutnicks said:
Vettel mangled the diffuser on Hamiltons car and only the rudest of optimists would not make the connection between his side impact on the Merc and the dislodged headrest on that side.
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oqvist said:
I don't see how the headrest getting loose is related to that. Not even Toto suggest that. As you say damage do play a part (only the brake check caused damage) but it was Vettel loosing out more due to getting penalized. Maldo of course has done a similar thing but actually causing damage without getting race bans. I think they are consistent.
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I was wondering the same thing but a rear end collision (at slow speed) dislodging a headrest seems unlikely until you consider F1 cars are designed to disintegrate on impact. Rather than secure the 'damaged' one, Mercedes swapped the headrest when Ham pitted. Notice it was most out of place at the rear and left sides which matched where his car was hit.

Agree the penalty for Vettel was too light (especially if telemetry confirmed that Ham didn't brake). Intentionally causing a collision that may have damaged the lead car then finishing ahead of that same car seems like some political BS that may end up deciding the WDC. Reminds of the travesty at Spa 2008 where Ham won but was demoted to third.
 
Jun 26, 2017 at 11:01 AM Post #3,407 of 3,854
Well the political solution would have been to decide the penalty after the race so Hamilton would come up on top. I think they do it right disregarding who ever is involved and be consistent with the rulings and do them live not after the race. They have been light on them all season long why play it hard now because there is drivers involved in the wdc? Have seen worse be penalized less.
 
Jun 26, 2017 at 11:06 AM Post #3,408 of 3,854
You have to go back to the days of Mansell, Senna, Piquet,and Schumacher to find instances of drivers deliberately driving into another car. The penalties were race bans and black flags. There is nothing consistant with the ruling in this case. There is no way Vettel should have been allowed to score points in that race.
 
Jun 26, 2017 at 11:11 AM Post #3,409 of 3,854
oqvist said:
Vettel wasn't the only one having issue with Lewis abrupt slowing down though it sure looked like a semi brake check to me. Dangerous driving you could say but smooth enough to get away with it. Penalty was right he didn't damage Lewis car and no places gained f1 is not gentlemanna racing. He got a penalty costing him an easy win if he would just keep his cool better. I think its ridiculous how the drivers play politics trying to steer the race stewards to their favour . Hamilton would be the first to call for a sc had he been chasing Vettel everybody know that. Alonso is another hopeless driver in this regards.
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I think you are overlooking the fact that FIA analysis of telemetry data indicated that Hamilton followed exactly the same pattern of behaviour at that corner each time round, when following the safety car. They claimed that the lap where he got a shunt from Vettel, showed no deviation from previous laps - slowed at the same point each time.

As to Hamilton's question of why SC instead of VSC @Hutnicks; well, it makes for more excitement to bunch up the field :D They are putting on a show at the end of the day!
 
Jun 26, 2017 at 11:26 AM Post #3,410 of 3,854
Hutnicks said:
You have to go back to the days of Mansell, Senna, Piquet,and Schumacher to find instances of drivers deliberately driving into another car. The penalties were race bans and black flags. There is nothing consistant with the ruling in this case. There is no way Vettel should have been allowed to score points in that race.
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Yeah, the way Vettel deliberately hit Ham's car the 2nd time was the on track equivalent of punching another driver in the pits.

I think being in a red car spared him from being black flagged.

After this round of BS, if Ham ends up losing another championship by 1-5 pts I think he might actually retire (as he hinted in recent comments).
 
Jun 26, 2017 at 11:27 AM Post #3,411 of 3,854
WraithApe said:
I think you are overlooking the fact that FIA analysis of telemetry data indicated that Hamilton followed exactly the same pattern of behaviour at that corner each time round, when following the safety car. They claimed that the lap where he got a shunt from Vettel, showed no deviation from previous laps - slowed at the same point each time.

As to Hamilton's question of why SC instead of VSC @Hutnicks; well, it makes for more excitement to bunch up the field :D They are putting on a show at the end of the day!
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Exactly. The telemetry will tell. Odd that Toto is waiting until he talks to Vettel to make judgement and the SCUD is conspicously stumm on this whole incident.

Excitement courtesy of Pirellis incredible ossifying tyre construction this year. They will be following indycar next with a Honda Civic pace car, which of course will be no big deal for McLaren to follow:)
 
Jun 26, 2017 at 11:33 AM Post #3,412 of 3,854
No just have to go back to maldo. Schumi has won a wc on a deliberate shunt
 
Jun 26, 2017 at 12:10 PM Post #3,413 of 3,854
You seem to be deliberately ignoring inthewaldo's record at Monaco. It was only by some form of sponsorship miracle that that two legged scumbag ever got to sit in an F1 car. How you can compare him to a multiple WDC champion and related the expected car control skills to one another mystifies me.

Here. Educate yourself.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/40399971
 
Jun 26, 2017 at 12:15 PM Post #3,414 of 3,854
That race was awesome because three of the 4 biggest whiners in the sport all had bad days at the office. I think they should have assessed Vettel with an on-track time penalty after the race including the stop and go. I also recall he was penalized for holding back the grid on a SC restart a year or two ago (Canada?) and I don't care what telemetry said. Hamilton was holding back the grid, and dangerously so, if you nearly stop after a corner. Sure, if Vettel was paying attention he could have stopped but what about the huge line behind him that was already bunched up? I've seen what happens on freeways enough times to know someone in that line that couldn't see around the corner to know there was stoppage would crash into a car ahead of them.
 
Jun 26, 2017 at 1:40 PM Post #3,419 of 3,854
Thats funny. I'm thinking he needs no help from the FIA on that score:)
 
Jun 26, 2017 at 2:29 PM Post #3,420 of 3,854
Muinarc said:
Hamilton was holding back the grid, and dangerously so, if you nearly stop after a corner. Sure, if Vettel was paying attention he could have stopped but what about the huge line behind him that was already bunched up? I've seen what happens on freeways enough times to know someone in that line that couldn't see around the corner to know there was stoppage would crash into a car ahead of the
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Under race conditions I agree, but this incident occurred under safety car conditions, if any driver can't stop quickly enough to avoid any car or other track obstruction then they are driving too fast or too close.
 
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