[gaspir324]

Do share the initial impressions and why you are disappointed.

 

[MuZo2]

It scaled the volume down, even with highest volume, it has effect like reverse amp. With N3i bass impact or punchier bass was missing. The vocals and hi were also affected.With RE0 it sounded bit better. Also the faster tracks did not sound right.

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

 
Quote:

It scaled the volume down, even with highest volume, it has effect like reverse amp. With N3i bass impact or punchier bass was missing. The vocals and hi were also affected.With RE0 it sounded bit better. Also the faster tracks did not sound right.

This is what I hope has been changed for rev3 and just not added high gain mode that also the low gain has been adjusted slightly because I have my doubts about the end result/output quality if the "amp" even brings lower volume level than not using it. I think the low gain mode should have at least the same vol level as using the source's HO only (then you can't run into too high vol issue either as if he/she wouldn't be able to use the source then in first place either so it makes no sense to me to at least adjust the gain so it's on a similar level as your typical non-dedicated amp source (read ipod, sansa clip, some x-fi soundcard etc)
 
As for my ZO2 rev1 I don't know if it's the HTF600 headphones or the ZO2 but I already had well above 50hrs on the HTF600 before getting it so it I take it has to be the ZO2 just seems to require a lot of burn in and kept still improving up to like 50 hrs. The HTF600 just keeps sounding wider and wider and at first I wasn't quite happy with the soundstage of these headphones but now with a nicely burnt-in ZO2 rev1 I'm really happy with it in every way, it sounds even better than the ZO1 with these headphones at least (before burn in, it actually sounded a little worse, it's been such a dramatic change after burn-in).
 
I hope with the lower gain setting in case I'd get rev3 won't sound worse than the rev1 with these 56 ohm headphones.... that's why I'm a little bit curious if rev3 will have adjusted low gain mode compared to rev2 or not. Since I use headphone out I could simply use high gain mode as well I suppose if low gain is too silent. But I may just continue using rev1 too but I'm eyeing a easily driven 32 ohm headphone which may have slight hissing with this ZO2 rev1 and I'm quite allergic against hissing and want silence when no music is playing as I sit at the comp browsing the net and stuff and keep usually my headphones on all the time and don't have music playing constantly either.
 

 

[MizMoxie]

Out of curiosity, how many of you listen with your player at max volume when using your headphones or (in particular) IEMs?
 
And another question, do you listen with your IEMs using Line-out directly?

 

[ANDEROAN]

no I don't listen at full blast, but I doo use my LO all the time, right now thru an amp,
 
but I was wanting to be able to hook the ZO v ?, up to the LOD of my iPod classic 7th gen. and with a volume level that isn't TOO high, or too low ? but with the feedback and revisions ? 
 
I think I will stick with the ZOv1 until I hear that it is adjusted and compatible with being able to listen straight out of a LOD? which will be the V2.3 I hope... and now to hear that if the gain winds up getting set too high, to be like the ZO v1, YIKES! will it blow my eardrums if I adjust it wrong? a little concerned

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

I use soundcard's HO and ZO2 rev1 set to max volume (because from my testing this provided the best sound quality when using headphone jack at least) and the soundcard set to 11 ~ 15% (with easily driven headphones 32 - 56 ohm 100dB+ sensitivity). Without ZO2 the volume level on soundcard would have to be set about 28~40%.
 
I'm personally thinking optimal using my components as measure here for example would be if low gain with ZO2 at max vol setting would provide perhaps about normal vol when I set soundcard's vol to 23~35% or something like that (compare to 28~40% whitout using ZO), just a very tiny bit stronger output than using the source only and then high gain would need the source to be set to like 12~15% similar to ZO1. Of course getting it just right is easier said than done as there's so many factors that comes into account here (different sources with different output capabilities, headphones/IEMs got different ohm and sensitivity ratings etc) but at least that's my guess where it would perform about optimal if you compare with say an Ipod for example and compare with a sensitive IEM what vol level it has to be listened with straight from headphone jack and then if plugging ZO2 in-between and set ZO2 to max volume in low gain and still using HO the source vol has to be set roughly the same or 1-2 steps lower (don't know how much one step correspond to on an iPod).
 
Can any1 with a ZO2 rev2 care to tell how the volume differs if using LOD vs headphone out with ZO2 rev2? I mean what vol level on the ZO2 (count how many clicks from the lowest vol level) when using LOD corresponds to what vol level on the source when using headphone out and ZO2 set to max vol level. That would be useful to me at least in order to tell how ZO2 rev2's gain level could be adjusted.

 

[JamesMcProgger]

Quote:

Out of curiosity, how many of you listen with your player at max volume when using your headphones or (in particular) IEMs?
 
And another question, do you listen with your IEMs using Line-out directly?

no and no. 

 

[MizMoxie]

Quote:

no I don't listen at full blast, but I doo use my LO all the time, right now thru an amp,
 
but I was wanting to be able to hook the ZO v ?, up to the LOD of my iPod classic 7th gen. and with a volume level that isn't TOO high, or too low ? but with the feedback and revisions ? 
 
I think I will stick with the ZOv1 until I hear that it is adjusted and compatible with being able to listen straight out of a LOD? which will be the V2.3 I hope... and now to hear that if the gain winds up getting set too high, to be like the ZO v1, YIKES! will it blow my eardrums if I adjust it wrong? a little concerned

 
This is coming directly from Paul:
"If you cannot listen to line out directly with your listening device (IEM or headphone) because it is too loud, then logically the line out signal is too strong and requires attenuation. In the case of placing an "amp" between line out and your listening device, the "amp" is attenuating not amping the signal strength. By the way, I don't recommend connecting your listening device directly to LO unless you just want to see smoke."
 
This is me:
You will be able to hook your ZO 2 up to the LOD of your iPod classic with a volume level that isn't too high or too low. The volume problem people are having is with HO not LO... which is why we are adding a high gain mode to rev 3... b/c you will be able to control the volume using the source.
 

 

[lee730]

Quote:

Out of curiosity, how many of you listen with your player at max volume when using your headphones or (in particular) IEMs?
 
And another question, do you listen with your IEMs using Line-out directly?

I listen to my Hifman at 2 or a bit less. Max volume is 10. Not looking forward to going deaf early.

 

[louisnomad]

 
Sometime ago, as I was reading on the boards, the LO on Ipods were fake, just like some other players. It was just the amp signal turned to maximum, or near maximum volume. With that in mind, I did a test with my J3, that lacks LO, puting it at max volume and using ZO2 v1 to "atenuate" the volume. It is really too loud to use in thet way.
 
The main problem here is that some folks like to use the LO on Apple sources because now they have a true LO, and the quality of the DAC seems to be better than the HO, known as a weak source. That's why they do that, and why they want the ZO2 with volume control. 
 
I, in the other hand, just use HO, and the only problemis the hiss... I use the volume contour on max, and adjust the volume to the IEMs on the source. I could live with that hiss, but I would be the happiest man in the world if I could get rid of it. Just the hiss, and nothing more... Because of that, I will wait for new revisions in the ZO2 and hope that Paul will discover a way to do that.

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Quote:

I, in the other hand, just use HO, and the only problemis the hiss... I use the volume contour on max, and adjust the volume to the IEMs on the source. I could live with that hiss, but I would be the happiest man in the world if I could get rid of it. Just the hiss, and nothing more... Because of that, I will wait for new revisions in the ZO2 and hope that Paul will discover a way to do that.

Hiss is no longer an issue, it wasn't even related to gain level but some component. Now the problem is just getting the volume levels appropriate for as many (read every1) as possible, especially for LOD users. HO users can ofc always adjust the source volume. But I still think even for HO users it would be nice to be able to use low gain so that we don't have to put our source volume to as low as 11~12% or so for normal listening volume like in my case with ZO2 rev1 (ZO2 set to max vol because this gets best quality with HO) but neither would I want to have to use like 75%+ volume in low gain with HO to get decent volume on a 100dB/56 ohm headphone when not using ZO2 -- 38% volume for example is ample... It's always difficult to get the settings just right so it's appropriate with a 10 ohm IEM and say a 64 ohm headphone as well as 150 ohm headphone from both HO and LOD.
 

 

[MizMoxie]

 
Quote:

 
Sometime ago, as I was reading on the boards, the LO on Ipods were fake, just like some other players. It was just the amp signal turned to maximum, or near maximum volume. With that in mind, I did a test with my J3, that lacks LO, puting it at max volume and using ZO2 v1 to "atenuate" the volume. It is really too loud to use in thet way.
 
The main problem here is that some folks like to use the LO on Apple sources because now they have a true LO, and the quality of the DAC seems to be better than the HO, known as a weak source. That's why they do that, and why they want the ZO2 with volume control. 
 
I, in the other hand, just use HO, and the only problemis the hiss... I use the volume contour on max, and adjust the volume to the IEMs on the source. I could live with that hiss, but I would be the happiest man in the world if I could get rid of it. Just the hiss, and nothing more... Because of that, I will wait for new revisions in the ZO2 and hope that Paul will discover a way to do that.

He has figured that out...and is exactly the intent of the rev 3. We are doing our absolute best to accommodate both IEM and headphone users who use either HO or LO, but obviously, this isn't an easy task! 

 

 

[estreeter]

Quote:

 
 
The main problem here is that some folks like to use the LO on Apple sources because now they have a true LO, and the quality of the DAC seems to be better than the HO, known as a weak source. That's why they do that, and why they want the ZO2 with volume control. 
 
 

1. The 'quality of the DAC' in an iPod will remain identical, regardless of whether you are using HO or LO. The overall *sound quality* may change, but the DAC's output will remain the same. The only alternative is to bypass the iPod's DAC, and the cheapest means of doing that is the Pure i-20 : from there, it gets exponentially more expensive, but I'm sure you know that. Most choose to bypass the iPod's amp with a LOD, but you are still using the DAC in the iPod - I agree with Voldemort that most iPods have a better DAC than we give them credit for, but thats another can of worms.
 
2. I disagree that the HO on all iPods is a 'weak source' - possibly in the European market, where they have Draconian restrictions on the maximum volume, but not in my experience with ipods created for Asia-Pacific.  That said, anyone using a LOD will soon tell you that they prefer the output from the amp they have that LOD plugged into - again, extra expense to 'solve' a perceived problem.
 
3. ZO2 V1 does have a volume control - the problem is that it is unable to attenuate the LO signal from sources like my T51 - I wouldnt even try with the MSII's 1.5V RMS output. For me, the sole exception has been my 150-ohm RE262's, but even then I prefer using another amp with the LO from the T51, as it gives me a much finer degree of control over the end result. For critical listening, I also prefer my other amps to the ZO2's coloration, even at the lowest SmartVektor setting - for movies and games, its the opposite.
 
Paul is correct that connecting your phones directly to the lineout is bonkers, but its amazing how many on Head-Fi feel compelled to do exactly that.
 
 

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

For ZO3 I vote 3 gain levels like most built in dedicated headphone amps in sound cards have. 2 levels is doable but the gap between IEMs and headphones are so large it's difficult to perfectly fit them all with just 2 levels, with 3 levels you could just optimize the lowest for IEM use and the middle one for easy/averagely hard to drive headphones and the high for more demanding headphones.
 
I also think for ZO3 (I know this is far into future but still good to bring up already) it would be good with a separate gain switch like most portable headphone amps have so you could control the volume in all gain modes. This and the "full smartvektor adjustment" you spoke of (ie treble adjustability) would be perfect new/additional features to make ZO3 an interesting upgrade. I also wouldn't say no to lower starting bass levels (possibly even the lowest level being SmartVektor = off).

 

[louisnomad]

Quote:

1. The 'quality of the DAC' in an iPod will remain identical, regardless of whether you are using HO or LO. The overall *sound quality* may change, but the DAC's output will remain the same. The only alternative is to bypass the iPod's DAC, and the cheapest means of doing that is the Pure i-20 : from there, it gets exponentially more expensive, but I'm sure you know that. Most choose to bypass the iPod's amp with a LOD, but you are still using the DAC in the iPod - I agree with Voldemort that most iPods have a better DAC than we give them credit for, but thats another can of worms.
 
2. I disagree that the HO on all iPods is a 'weak source' - possibly in the European market, where they have Draconian restrictions on the maximum volume, but not in my experience with ipods created for Asia-Pacific.  That said, anyone using a LOD will soon tell you that they prefer the output from the amp they have that LOD plugged into - again, extra expense to 'solve' a perceived problem.
 
3. ZO2 V1 does have a volume control - the problem is that it is unable to attenuate the LO signal from sources like my T51 - I wouldnt even try with the MSII's 1.5V RMS output. For me, the sole exception has been my 150-ohm RE262's, but even then I prefer using another amp with the LO from the T51, as it gives me a much finer degree of control over the end result. For critical listening, I also prefer my other amps to the ZO2's coloration, even at the lowest SmartVektor setting - for movies and games, its the opposite.
 
Paul is correct that connecting your phones directly to the lineout is bonkers, but its amazing how many on Head-Fi feel compelled to do exactly that.
 
 

 
Sorry, by DAC I meant LOD. As I'm not a Apple user, despite of having a fan boy at home (my little brother), please, forgive my mistakes! I know ZO2 v1 has a volume control, I have it on my desk right now! And as i said, I tried it with J3 on max volume and it is unusable!


Quote:

 

He has figured that out...and is exactly the intent of the rev 3. We are doing our absolute best to accommodate both IEM and headphone users who use either HO or LO, but obviously, this isn't an easy task! 

 

 

MizMoxie, I was waiting for the reviews on rev3, but if you're available to give us some answers, I will ask:
 
1- rev3 still have the bypass mode?
2- Some folks here said the Smart Vektor quality on Rev2 was decreased. We get no hiss, but the sound quality was affected too. So, with rev3, with LOW gain we have that problem too? And with HIGH gain, we still can notice the hiss on sensitive IEMs?
3- With HIGH gain, it is usable only through HO, like the original ZO2?
 
Thanks in advance!