[bcasey25raptor]

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Now hold on here.
I've read your thread a couple pages in, and I have to ask because I saw you said it...you're using your computer to drive these? As in.....onboard sound?
Is that all you're plugging your headphones into?
 
Because if that's the case, I have almost no doubt that is why your phones aren't sounding as good as all the shining reviews and comments from people say, which I'm sure would feel a disappointment.
 
I do have further questions, such as whether you're listening to Lossless or Lossy audio, have you tried these headphones with a good stereo, do you own a DAC (though I'm guessing not), etc., all things that can help you with what you're hearing.
But that won't be necessary (at least yet) if you are seriously using these headphones with onboard sound.
Plug your phones into something that can actually drive and handle them and I think you will be surprised.
Best part is, since you already have the gear, buying a sound card or something of the sort would be all you'd need.
 
Far too many motherboards, especially ones packaged in prebuilt, budget computers, are absolutely not enough to have pricier headphones plugged into.
"Stock" or "onboard" equipment isn't designed with higher-end (and higher-priced

) equipment or quality in mind, just as higher-end headphones are not designed for onboard sound.
It's hand in hand.
Maybe not the best analogy, but getting high-end headphones when all you're going to do is plug it into an onboard jack is a bit like getting fine china and eating fast food on it.
 
So what you need is something that can go good with what you have. Something that can be an equivalent.
Thankfully, with all that is available out there, equivalent does not necessarily mean equivalent in cost.
There are quite a few good sound cards, stereos, DACs and the like out there that are good in price and quality, that I'm sure with reading and researching can lead you to what's just right.
and all it will take I'm sure is a little help from your head-fi friends.

i have a fiio e7 dac and i hear minimal improvement over my onboard. that was my main reason for starting this thread.
 

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

i have a fiio e7 dac and i hear minimal improvement over my onboard. that was my main reason for starting this thread.

Yeah it's a toy... in fact I preferred my $23 soundcard to the E7. Save up for a DLIII or Wyred4Sound DAC2 or something even better... then if you come back and say the same thing you'll at least have some weight to your hypothesis.

 

[2enty3]

Quote:

Yeah it's a toy... in fact I preferred my $23 soundcard to the E7. Save up for a DLIII or Wyred4Sound DAC2 or something even better... then if you come back and say the same thing you'll at least have some weight to your hypothesis.

I'm going to be honest and have to agree with bcasey on the improvement heard from a DAC. I got myself the NFB-12, with its dual wolfson setup which was said to be pretty darn good. I researched and everybody was saying it was a HUGE difference from onboard sound. To my surprise, there was minimal difference in the sound. I'm running it with my iMac, and I was expecting a drastic difference in details, clarity, etc, but all I got was better instrument separation and soundstage, and I'm guessing that's just form the amping portion. Even the actual differences were minimal.
 
Now I know my experience is limited, but assuming that bcasey is in the same situation as me, meaning that we both don't have over $500 to spend on an amp/DAC, I don't think a DAC upgrade is worth it anywhere near the $100 to $200 range. The changes were minimal. The amp portion of the NFB12 was the biggest improvement, because now I can turn up the volume with absolutely no distortion, which was impossible before.

 

[Nagasaki_Kid]

I think the main reason everything is a "bang for your buck" is that headphone and gear are improving in terms of price to quality ratio. A few years ago people would happily pay much more for the same sound(durability was better in the past thought). That and there is some hyping up involved.
 
 
Especially in the amp and dac market. In the past, people were charging huge amounts for basically what amounts to cmoy that have be tuned to function through R&D with right parts to sound better.
 
armature prices also apparently dropped, I was browsing digikey and the ed series armature in the er4 were about $25 each. A couple of years ago they were about $50 each on digikey.
 
 
 
Also dacs aren't a waste, but they are more beneficial to iems and high sensitivity headphones in my experience.
 
upgrade order should be always headphone first.
 
Headphone>AMP>DAC>>umm.. maybe earphone padding and headphone mods>IC>POWERSUPPLY
 
also synergy is important like the grados and ra1.

 

[Shike]

Quote:

Yeah it's a toy... in fact I preferred my $23 soundcard to the E7. Save up for a DLIII or Wyred4Sound DAC2 or something even better... then if you come back and say the same thing you'll at least have some weight to your hypothesis.

I had a Carry Audio Xciter which offered little to no improvement.  I eventually "downgraded" to a DacMagic which also offers little to no improvement too.  Of course, this was comparing to an Auzentech X-Fi Prelude . . . my Vostro 1500 Laptop is so noisy that almost anything would be an improvement.
 
Why do I still keep an external DAC?  Because each PC build won't be consistent, some will be more noisy, and I like the flexibility of an external device.  That's about it.

 

[Brooko]

Quote:

Yeah it's a toy... in fact I preferred my $23 soundcard to the E7. Save up for a DLIII or Wyred4Sound DAC2 or something even better... then if you come back and say the same thing you'll at least have some weight to your hypothesis.

Might be a 'toy' to you - but for those on a budget who want an upgrade at a reasonable price, it sure seems to do it's job
 
Of course I couldn't give a rats what anyone else thinks.  It works for me with my humble set-up - and I would rather have the $$$ to spend on my next cans than spend it on an expensive DAC when the E7 satisfies MY requirements.  YMMV.  I'll stick to my "toys" - they work for me 

 

[MalVeauX]

Heya,
 
This is too funny. It's a hobby. It's a niche market. And perceived sound quality is completely subjective and comes down to the listener. Some people just don't hear things or pay attention to things and really just don't get it in this enthusiast hobby. For example, some people are wowed by colors and vibrant light and stunningly detailed sharp images and will spend thousands of dollars on cameras and accessories. Me, I am crazy for smells and sound. I perceive them differently, I appreciate them differently. And I buy insanely expensive scents. I also have a collection of headphones that is dwarfed compared to my home theater setups. Certain tones and how they round off will make a tear come to my eye. It's dumb. But I listen differently than you obviously, O.P. I've never had an "OMG" experience listening to metal or pop. I love those genres. But they just don't have a sound that touches me. Piano, classical, wind instruments, an acoustic session, etc, does. I also really like electronic music because you hear a lot of tones. I find it hard to appreciate complex sounds like you hear in metal for example where the sound is mashed together (in a good way mind you) and so I just don't find detailed hifi setups being worth it, for me personally, for that kind of music or sound. I didn't find that out by reading on the internet. I had to listen to it, for years, to really pinpoint my tastes. And then they go and change the year after. That's just how it is.
 
Luckily, this equipment has high resale value. If it's not giving you your money's worth, sell it.
 
I've listened to $1000 headphones on my favorite lossless tracks and was critical about it. I did not like the sound. I liked the sound of a $300 pair of headphones way more. We all hear something different when we listen. What you hear and like or what your ears seek during listening is purely yours.
 
Very best,

 

[maverickronin]

Bcasey, If your really like speakers that much, even cheap speakers, compared to headphones then your never going to find a pair that gives you the same experience on its own.
 
A Smyth Realiser would probably be perfect for you, but that's way outside your budget.  If you want to improve your listening experience I recommend you look into some DSPs.  There are threads here on Isone and Dolby Headphone and it won't cost you anything to experiment with them.

 

[estreeter]

Dear God, please let this fellow find a new hobby, preferably something where you just go and do it. With power tools. On an ice rink.

 

[maverickronin]

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just go and do it. With power tools. On an ice rink.

Would that happen to be one of your hobbies?  Sounds interesting...to say the least.

 

[estreeter]

I usually juggle cats. And chainsaws. Simultaneously.

 

[maverickronin]

Just don't slip on the ice...

 

[Shike]

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Just don't slip on the ice...

I think he already has . . . would explain some things, no?

 

[Frank I]

While reading the OP thread I will try to  answer this as I have owned the T1,HD800,HE6,LCD2 and  had the loaner HE500 in here.. I am listening to the Beyer 880 600 ohms street price is 269.00 and the biggest difference I hear with the more expensive headphones it slightly more detail more transparency in all the higher priced models. I would say the 880 is 90-95 percent of all the top tier and its no placebo. I think all the top tier is way overpriced and zi had them all. In the end what is important is you and your system and music. is it worth it to pay almost a 1K more for a T1 over a 880 for some it will be. Some people just want the very best sound they can get  and really do not care what that cost. Other will go for the bang for your buck cans like the 880 600 ohm Beyer. I can be very happy with either so it about budget and the desire to want to spend more. If you have the funds there is much to be liked with the1K or  more cans but if you afford the higher end and money is no object that may be what you want. I am currently happy with the 880 600 ohm Beyer at least for now. My situation is different and now have to watch my money so for me I look for bag for buck. I still think this 880 600 ohm has really opened my eyes on just how overpriced all the other flagship models really are. They are all better yes but for that you pay a premium. I did enjoy the journey and for me it still going on but budget may dictate another route for me and I spend lots of hours on my speakers which are better than any headphone I have heard to date. The top tier will be more refined and have the inner detail and I own the D7000 and consider that to be top tier as it is a 1K flagship also. It the lone survivor as all others have been sold.. Only time will tell if I can be satisfied long term but n the end my bank account say that i must but that also could change. I am enjoying the 880 600 and tomorrow I get the HD600 so in a few weeks I will do my comparison and see if I do need to buy another flagship again but bang for the buck is very  nice for sure.

 

[estreeter]

Quote:

I think he already has . . . would explain some things, no?

I think the fact that I spend serious time on this board tells folk all they really need to know about my mental state. That, and the fact that I like to sign cheques 'Charlie Manson'.
 
To the OP - I dont think anyone here denies things like diminishing returns and self-generated hype are disincentives to 'moving up the ladder', but it comes down to a simple proposition :
 
- do have the disposable income for a *luxury* like audio ?
- if so, what is the opportunity cost of spending money here vs spending money on more profitable hobbies like stamp collecting or growing your own herb, er, vegetables ?
 
Push comes to shove, we pay our money and we take our chances. Where the 'VFM' equation falls over in Head-Fi, for mine, is that very few of us can stop at one or two of anything. There are several people in this thread who would be ahead financially if they had simply gone out and bought a good mid-fi speaker rig - lets say 5-7K total - even though the speakers wouldnt give them everything they can get from a pair of thousand dollar cans. My experience in this hobby is that very few seem to get off the merry-go-round (the trick seems to be staying away from sites like this), and 'bang-for-buck' is relative - you previously lament the fact that a sub-$100 portable amp didnt sound any different to your onboard audio, but I *guarantee* that changing headphones will give you a different sound. You've obviously read enough threads to realise that 'different' doesnt automatically mean 'better' - c'est la vie.
 
In short, if you have money to spend and there is a competing priority in your life, my suggestion is that you spend your money on that other priority. If not, welcome to Head-Fi and sorry for your wallet.