[bcasey25raptor]

hello all. i have noticed while being on these forums that headphones like the grado sr60, shure srh440/srh840, and audio technica ath m50/ ath ad7000 etc are all praised as being bang for the buck and better then headphones costing so much more money. i really think this is a little strange that all of these headphones are praised as being bang for the buck but when you get headphones that are not bang for buck they are considered overpriced. bose, klipsch, and monster are all considered overpriced when the ones i mentioned are considered under priced.
 
i think headphones like the audio technica ath m50 and shure srh440/840 are actually what you guys expect for the money but over judge them for being bang for buck considering all the mainstream companies which you compare them to and deem overpriced. i really think a lot of what is said on this forum is just snake oil. do you really notice a difference other then sound signature? i tried the sony mdr zx700 ($100) at the sony store and i didn't hear much if any at all difference between my shure srh840. i am not saying my shure srh840 is bad. it is far from it but i think people here over rate them. there is many good headphones that even get disregarded here. i have some pioneer se m390 headphones and practically no one here know what they are. yet they are bang for the buck apparently. 
 
i hope you can take this observation seriously and thin about it. how many of you buy headphones and are actually convinced they are better? or how many of you actually are influenced by placebo effect. i feel the latter has a more significant impact then you all would like to admit.
 
please discuss this intelligently amongst yourselves. i am curious to see what you all have to say.

 

[jerg]

Thing is there are LOTS more headphones you can buy at the pricerange of $100~200 or so, they just don't get discussed here because either no one cared enough to tried them yet (why risk one's hard-earned money when there are safe headphone choices?), or they are not worth the money compared to the so-called "bang for the buck" cans, or both.

 

[Roller]

I honestly think it's all about the law of diminishing returns.
 
Actually, I've tried those SE-M390 and they're not bad. I have a pair of headphones that's a little cheaper than those Pioneers, some Technics RP-F290, and they still works fine, apart from the leather having peeled off the pads.
 
Bang for buck gets more and more far away from the user as he rises on the audio tiers, but the differences are still there and noticeable. I don't think it's a matter of placebo. And some gear plays nicer with specific gear.

 

[Brooko]

I'd say before you simply dismiss a lot of it as "snake oil", you should actually listen to a few more cans yourself before making blanket statements.  I'm not trying to slate you here - it's a serious recommendation.  Experiencing them is necessary.
 
Of the ones you've mentioned - I've tried the grados (actually the 80is), the SRH840 and AD700 (currently own both), and the M50.  Now lets look at the street prices .....
Grado 60/80i, AD700, and Shure 440s all go for under $100.  The 840's and M50's can be picked up for under $130 (if you shop around carefully).
 
All of the above - that I've heard (cannot speak for the 440) - give very good entry point sound for very little monetary value.  Each have very different signatures - but depending on your preferred signature, they give entry to mid-fi world with very little outlay.
 
Of the other brand you mentioned - let's look at the ones I've heard ....
 
Monster Beats Solo - $160ish - flimsy, bloated bass, no definition
Monster Beats Studio $300sih - actually sonically, these weren't too bad.  Bass was a little too much for my tastes - but for $300 my 840's kill these, and for that price I could buy some Senn HD600's or Shure 940's.
Bose QC15 - $280ish - I only got to try this for 5 minutes - but it sounded really good.  Nice clarity and quite comfortable.  But again it's almost $300.  Same argument applies as above (Senn HD6xx / Shure 940)
 
Does any of the Monster / Bose that I've heard (admittedly my selection is limited) offer better SQ + value combination than the ones you mentioned?  Not even close.
 
On your comments regarding the comparison with much lower level budget phones, I cannot say much because I haven't heard the ones you are indicating.  But compared to my first cans (Senn eh250's), each of the Grado, AT and Shure cans you mentioned are IMO light years ahead in SQ.  That's why I bought what I have now.  That's why I will continue to work my way up the chain.
 
Lastly - I'd really question what you want out of the hi-fi world.  You recently bought your E7 and weren't happy with it.  You commented on something that definitely gave me a little insight into some of your recent posts.  Your comment was that the E7 at $100 wasn't worth it because all it did was remove a little static from your music.  I guess that's the difference between you and I (and maybe you and a lot of people on head-fi - I'm guessing here ....).  To me removing some static/noise from my audio set-up so that I can just enjoy the music is easily worth $100.  To you it's obviously not.  Maybe hi-fi is not really going to be your thing.  If it's not, then recognise it early, enjoy the gear you have got, and move onto something else.  If anything you'll be happier and your wallet will love you. 

 

[bcasey25raptor]

Quote:

I'd say before you simply dismiss a lot of it as "snake oil", you should actually listen to a few more cans yourself before making blanket statements.  I'm not trying to slate you here - it's a serious recommendation.  Experiencing them is necessary.
 
Of the ones you've mentioned - I've tried the grados (actually the 80is), the SRH840 and AD700 (currently own both), and the M50.  Now lets look at the street prices .....
Grado 60/80i, AD700, and Shure 440s all go for under $100.  The 840's and M50's can be picked up for under $130 (if you shop around carefully).
 
All of the above - that I've heard (cannot speak for the 440) - give very good entry point sound for very little monetary value.  Each have very different signatures - but depending on your preferred signature, they give entry to mid-fi world with very little outlay.
 
Of the other brand you mentioned - let's look at the ones I've heard ....
 
Monster Beats Solo - $160ish - flimsy, bloated bass, no definition
Monster Beats Studio $300sih - actually sonically, these weren't too bad.  Bass was a little too much for my tastes - but for $300 my 840's kill these, and for that price I could buy some Senn HD600's or Shure 940's.
Bose QC15 - $280ish - I only got to try this for 5 minutes - but it sounded really good.  Nice clarity and quite comfortable.  But again it's almost $300.  Same argument applies as above (Senn HD6xx / Shure 940)
 
Does any of the Monster / Bose that I've heard (admittedly my selection is limited) offer better SQ + value combination than the ones you mentioned?  Not even close.
 
On your comments regarding the comparison with much lower level budget phones, I cannot say much because I haven't heard the ones you are indicating.  But compared to my first cans (Senn eh250's), each of the Grado, AT and Shure cans you mentioned are IMO light years ahead in SQ.  That's why I bought what I have now.  That's why I will continue to work my way up the chain.
 
Lastly - I'd really question what you want out of the hi-fi world.  You recently bought your E7 and weren't happy with it.  You commented on something that definitely gave me a little insight into some of your recent posts.  Your comment was that the E7 at $100 wasn't worth it because all it did was remove a little static form your music.  I guess that's the difference between you and I (and maybe you and a lot of people on head-fi - I'm guessing here ....).  To me removing some static/noise from my audio set-up so that I can just enjoy the music is easily worth $100.  To you it's obviously not.  Maybe hi-fi is not really going to be your thing.  If it's not, then recognise it early, enjoy the gear you have got, and move onto something else.  If anything you'll be happier and your wallet will love you. 

i ordered some alessandro ms1's and if those satisfy me i think i may be finished. i will stay around this community to recommend cans i feel are good for cheap but i cannot see myself ever spending more then $200 on a pair of headphones. also how do you know they are better or is it just the signature is more to your prefers?

 

[Brooko]

Quote:

i ordered some alessandro ms1's and if those satisfy me i think i may be finished. i will stay around this community to recommend cans i feel are good for cheap but i cannot see myself ever spending more then $200 on a pair of headphones. also how do you know they are better or is it just the signature is more to your prefers?

I'm assuming you're talking about my view on the SRH840 vs the Studios (or the Bose QC15).  Combo of my preferred SQ/sonic signature plus the price.  Both the Studio and Bose had too much bottom end.  The 840's do have a bit of mid-bass hump, but I don't find it excessive.  The Bose's bass hump was at the expense of it's highs.  Just didn't suit my tastes.  But combine that with the price difference - the Shures are well under 1/2 the street price - that's where you get your value for money.
 
BTW - I know it's unfair to compare above because the other two have ANC - but it's my only reference point.
 
If they were all the same price, and had similar quality, I'd have no problem using Monster or Bose.  But they're not.  The price isn't even close.
 
I'll be interested in hearing your impressions of your MS1s when you get them.  I'm very tempted at getting a pair after hearing the 80i's.

 

[extrabigmehdi]

@bcasey25raptor
Quote:

also how do you know they are better or is it just the signature is more to your prefers?

Depends of what you mean by better , if you find a  cheap headphone with  signature that fit your taste, or are  great for mastering/studio work, then of course they are great value. There's also build quality , and comfort. Anyway, each brand are more or less overpricing their products,  and you'd be surprised by the number of people ranking "mid-range" headphones, higher to "high end" ones; so stop looking at the prices thinking that these hd800 must be "damn good".

 

[labrat]

Delete

 

[extrabigmehdi]

@labrat
Quote:

So as most members here, he do want the sound, but is not ready to pay the cost!
Sad to say, that is what most of the discussions around these forums is about!

 
I disagree, lot of people don't have the opportunity to test each models, and rely on the comparisons made on this forum before deciding what to buy.
If the guy is not ready to pay around 150$ to get the sound he loves, this just means that he has other priorities , and prefer to spend money on something else.
This might be the difference with a true "audiophile".

 

[labrat]

Delete

 

[extrabigmehdi]

@labrat
Quote:

So in your view, an "audiphile" praising his new Koss PortaPro's and his decision to buy these, is a true Audiphile?

Well, if he bought these Koss Porta Pro, looking for a particular sound improvement (not just for bragging rights).  Also if he praises his Koss Porta Pro, he must at least be honest in what he is experiencing (otherwise the guy , just want some attention, and do not care that much of music).

 

[throzen0303]

I tried the 840s for 2 weeks, don't think they are really what some people call "best under $200", I think the HD25-1 ii will be better, also the Ultrasone HFI-780

 

[RexAeterna]

reason why cause lot of newbies(specifically) that venture into something better than ibuds tend to praise these headphones and forget there is better out there and automatically think what they have is a Godsend from heaven above and smite other possibilities. there is some rare gems out there that you can find for very little to no cost and people or no one knows about, and can compete or excel at more expensive offerings, but that's just rarely cause lot of people lack knowledge or are very closed minded when making a decision before hand.

lot other things to consider as well cause each individual is very different in search for sound and can find something that cost very little and like it more then the so called ''premium'' product. people just have different taste. also lot of people tend to suggest what they read good things about but never personally heard it themselves. there is more to it but this is all i can come up with. i have gotten a brain fart.

 

[kn19h7]

snake oils, bang for bucks == ...Seriously, is it important when you listen to music? Placebo effect? huh, oh well my policy is 'listen and (better don't) purchase'.. Sometimes I was really no intend to buy anything before trying something..
and whenever I purchase something without listen, I'll know I'm just 'conforming' myself and thus won't purposely seeking for 'improvement'..
 
yeah sound signature (I'll assume this as the tonal balance here) may be quite critical in judging a headphone, but there are some other qualities that are difficult to show up in cheap ones like level of details, soundstage presentation and separation etc.. Btw, comfy is actually more important than sound quality to me ==
 
...oh ya, the zx700 is actually a very nice headphone, you can actually find that one of our moderators is using it in portable setup..

 

[deadlylover]

I guess people love the warm fuzzy feeling you get from knowing you have a $200 headphone that has a "$500" level of audio quality, or something like that =P.