what's so great about foobar?
Aug 31, 2005 at 10:52 PM Post #46 of 69
I forgot about lossy encoded source files completely.. of course, different decoders may sound different.. when comparing sound produced by different players, we need to use lossless sources in the first place.. bit perfect means that data stored in the lossless file are streamed to the soundcard without any modification and the rest is upto soundcard's capabilities.. I don't understand people using ASIO4All, seems like nonsense to me when there is KS output plugin present, it only makes sense for applications without KS support..
 
Aug 31, 2005 at 11:14 PM Post #47 of 69
Glassman, I am very curious about this player... could you do us a favor and download it and take a look at it?
redface.gif

as a resident tech-guru, your opinion really counts
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Sep 1, 2005 at 2:48 AM Post #48 of 69
guys, another thing i don't get is resampling in the card. why would it make the song sound any better? it's like trancoding an mp3 to lossless, hoping for higher quality. what's the point?
 
Sep 1, 2005 at 3:08 AM Post #49 of 69
Quote:

Originally Posted by binkgle
guys, another thing i don't get is resampling in the card. why would it make the song sound any better? it's like trancoding an mp3 to lossless, hoping for higher quality. what's the point?


there are much to read regarding how upsampling, resmpling, oversampling would improve...or screw the sound quality. you can find many many good articles about it if you just google it
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Sep 1, 2005 at 3:22 AM Post #50 of 69
what i've read leads me to believe that up/re/over sampling does absolutely nothing for the sound quality. i rip from cds, and upsampling won't bring back informatin lost in the cd encoding. so............ why bother? why use the extra cpu cycles for nothing?
 
Sep 1, 2005 at 6:05 AM Post #51 of 69
Quote:

Originally Posted by binkgle
what i've read leads me to believe that up/re/over sampling does absolutely nothing for the sound quality. i rip from cds, and upsampling won't bring back informatin lost in the cd encoding. so............ why bother? why use the extra cpu cycles for nothing?


its not necessarily better or worse type of thing. techincally, upsampling would be less accurate if it deviates from unchanged signal; however, as with many other practices (ie crossfeed or tube amps) people here look for ways to taylor the sound to their liking, and I see upsampling as one of those choices - more of postprocessing of some sort, so to say. Typically, it is linked to airier, smoother sound with less bass impact, but that is very subjective. Never got a chance to try SRC (anyone wanna help me out here?), but comparing SSRC and PPHS, PPHS is gentler sounding. There are plenty of threads with discussions on different re/upsampling algorithms, and some of the opinions there are consistent with my own little observations. I keep on going back and forth... just up until yesterday I was with 192kHz PPHS, but now I am back down to 44.1kHz...
 
Sep 1, 2005 at 6:18 AM Post #52 of 69
jiiteepee said:
Quote:

interesting. trying it now, dont really care for the interface but it does sound somewhat different to my ears. for one thing, it (obviously) doesnt work with foobar's replaygain, so I will have to listen for a while to figure out if the change is for better or worse. so far i like it with my speakers, havnt had a chance to use it with my headphones yet. the program crashes with mpc files tho, maybe it doesnt support them?
redface.gif

does it come with some predefined eq settings by any chance? sounds quite
different really.
[/QUOTE
I've used/compared these players only using headphones (soundcard --> headphones). There are not many supported formats (MP3, WAV, AIFF, Audio-CD, FLAC, Ogg Vorbis, non-DRM WMA and AAC ) on BeatPort or DJ Studio.



Shortly 'bout NI,
[size=xx-small]"NATIVE INSTRUMENTS is the pioneer and technological market leader in the field of software synthesis, and one of the key players in the booming market for music and audio software. The company’s mission is to develop outstanding tools for musicians, producers, sound designers and DJs. The resulting products regularly push technological boundaries and open up new creative horizons for professionals and amateurs alike."
[/size]
I've been using their software synths and been demoing their products during years (incl. DJ Studio). Some times ago, I noticed they've developed BeatPort and just checked it out ... All their products excluding that free 'Traktor DJ Player' are ASIO compatible products.



I found NI's mostly better on bass (clear and really deep if needed) and it's overal rich sound. I've been comparing these players with some jazz pieces, where bass parts was played using contrabass --> big differences to me. Got same type results with old recordings from bands like Pink Floyd, ELO, Rainbow, etc. Foobar2k and Winamp (with ASIO or KS) just sounds too bright to my ears (like midrange and above it are somewhat emphasized). I even tried resampling on Foobar2k but it sounded like treble boosting mainly.

Of course, all these differences I can tell can be caused by my setup(s), my age (~50, younger ones have just 'better' and more sensitive hearing than older ones) and my hearing (been playing (el)guitar quite a long time).
All music I have, are been ripped to 16/44.1 wave files --> converted to 192kpbs mp3. I also made now some comparison with plain wave files (16/44.1) ripped from original CDs.

jiitee


I am still baffled about this, and trying to compare the two players with same tracks. IMO I am sorta sensitive to changes in sound, but not very articulate in verbal sense, so its hard to describe what I hear
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For one thing, I will agree the NI player sounds smoother, more organic perhaps. Foobar sounds harsher and more dynamic in comparison. Also, Foobar is somewhat grainier and has more impactful but muddier bass. I am under impression there is more treble information resolved with foobar, but NI sounds strangely detailed, feels like certain details are "emphasized"... dunno, gotta keep experimenting more I guess
smily_headphones1.gif
This is with foobar @ 44.1kHz, 24bit padded to 32bit and no RG.

some other things I have noticed about the NI player
1)sometimes it takes unusually long to load files. My files are located on my primary rig, so I play them over the network. Foobar doesnt seem to suffer from the same delay.
2)Does not support unicode, so half of my songs have either question marks all over them or do not have any description at all. At worst case, it simply refuses to load a song or displays it in read (unplayable)
3)Kinda related to topic 1), whenever I play my files over the network, close the player and then reopen, the previously played files are rendered unplayble. All I have to do is add to the playlist again, but kinda tedious.
4)crashes upon loading some tracks.. kinda random, but happens on same set of files

When it comes ot the interface, foobar wins hands down - IMO at least. but like I said earlier, the thing sounds very liquidy smooth and gets rid of some harshness present with foobar. I just hope I am not getting fooled by some undocumented EQ or DFX-like postprocessing
redface.gif
 
Sep 1, 2005 at 7:13 AM Post #53 of 69
Quote:

Originally Posted by kinokin
Quote:

Originally Posted by binkgle
guys, another thing i don't get is resampling in the card. why would it make the song sound any better? it's like trancoding an mp3 to lossless, hoping for higher quality. what's the point?


there are much to read regarding how upsampling, resmpling, oversampling would improve...or screw the sound quality. you can find many many good articles about it if you just google it



Quote:

Originally Posted by binkgle
what i've read leads me to believe that up/re/over sampling does absolutely nothing for the sound quality. i rip from cds, and upsampling won't bring back informatin lost in the cd encoding. so............ why bother? why use the extra cpu cycles for nothing?


Quote:

Originally Posted by MikoLayer
its not necessarily better or worse type of thing. techincally, upsampling would be less accurate if it deviates from unchanged signal; however, as with many other practices (ie crossfeed or tube amps) people here look for ways to taylor the sound to their liking, and I see upsampling as one of those choices - more of postprocessing of some sort, so to say. Typically, it is linked to airier, smoother sound with less bass impact, but that is very subjective. Never got a chance to try SRC (anyone wanna help me out here?), but comparing SSRC and PPHS, PPHS is gentler sounding. There are plenty of threads with discussions on different re/upsampling algorithms, and some of the opinions there are consistent with my own little observations. I keep on going back and forth... just up until yesterday I was with 192kHz PPHS, but now I am back down to 44.1kHz...


Seems that resampling is maybe used on mastering work too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://stereophile.com/asweseeit/344/index1.html
"Editor: In January of the first year of the third millennium, John Atkinson reviewed some new DVD-As that had been originally recorded at 44.1 or 48kHz and then upsampled to 88.2 or 96kHz, and stated that there would be no potential advantage to doing that. Actually, there is significant sonic advantage to remastering and reissuing entire catalogs that were originally recorded at 16-bit/44.1kHz".


jiitee
 
Sep 1, 2005 at 9:32 PM Post #54 of 69
ok, necropimp sent me his foobar folder, and i replaced mine with it (there was nothing important in there anyway), and i nuked the files i was suppossed to (well, i think i did), and deleted a component he had that was pooping up a little foobar toolbar which was really annoying, called foo_looks. but, when i started foobar i just get the default interface. why won't it open to look like necropimp's?
 
Sep 2, 2005 at 12:38 AM Post #55 of 69
anyone?
 
Sep 2, 2005 at 12:45 AM Post #56 of 69
also, along with making the setup actually work, how would i make the color of the selected songs red or green, and not orange?
 
Sep 2, 2005 at 1:06 PM Post #57 of 69
I don't know if there is more than one way to do this, as I am still new at this, but under Preference -> ColumnUI -> Variables, you should be able to see a bunch of variables for changing the colour. I vaguely remember FF0000 stands for red.
 
Sep 2, 2005 at 1:27 PM Post #58 of 69
Quote:

Originally Posted by binkgle
ok, necropimp sent me his foobar folder, and i replaced mine with it (there was nothing important in there anyway), and i nuked the files i was suppossed to (well, i think i did), and deleted a component he had that was pooping up a little foobar toolbar which was really annoying, called foo_looks. but, when i started foobar i just get the default interface. why won't it open to look like necropimp's?


Did you intall columns_ui? If not, you have to install it, and then go to preferences --> display and choose it as the user interface module.

I would love to get a copy of necropimp's folder as well.
 
Sep 2, 2005 at 6:24 PM Post #59 of 69
I would think that the folder would come with it.

Anyway, I'd also like Necropimp's config. I've started playing around, but it would be nice to tweak a good setup than having to reinvente the wheel
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Sep 2, 2005 at 8:34 PM Post #60 of 69
jiiteepee, in case you havnt tried yet, I suggest giving a shot at PPHS 192kHZ resampling. Just a few minutes ago, I just had yet another comparison and felt it sounded much softer and musical to my ears. Gone are harshness from highs and bass bloat. With beatport, patchmix was constantly reporting clipping, so had to turn down the volume from the player and its fine now, I suppose. Cant decide which one I like better now, but definitely foobar@192kHz ?= beatport > foobar@44.1kHz as far as my personal preference goes.
 

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