[musicmind]

*double post*

 

[infinitesymphony]

d-cee, is there any way you could compare the two without upsampling? Many of the complaints about brightness and fatigue with the 0404 USB sound like what I've experienced when using both software and hardware upsampling.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neville /img/forum/go_quote.gif infinitesymphony, So all this time I have not been using the latest and greatest DAC in my player?

Well... It's not the latest and greatest anymore, but yes, you've been using mid-range DACs instead of the top-range ones in your DVD player. It doesn't mean that the ones in the player will necessarily sound better, but there's a good chance that they will. The way a piece of gear sounds largely depends on the implementation of the different sections (power, DAC, laser mechanism, isolation, etc.), so you might find that an inferior-spec'd DAC could sound superior in certain circumstances. It also depends on your own listening preferences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neville 1. test redbook on 79avi with rca output into receiver 2. test pioneer dvd626 player rca into receiver 3. test Cambridage Audio 640C player with rca into receiver 4. test pioneer dvd626 going into 0404 USB with optical and using rca connectors runing into receiver 5. test all the above with the "cd mat" If I have the strength or time over the weekend I recently got into HD DVD (Toshiba A30) and have not listened to any redbook but from what I have read on furms its not very good at it. WOuld be nice if I could only have 1 player excel in all but priced below $500.

You might try other devices going into the 0404 USB, since not all players are equally good transports, which is what you're testing when you make a digital connection. Here's every possible combination:

-all players analog outputs
-all players digital outputs into receiver (test optical, coaxial, and iLink separately)
-all players digital outputs into 0404 USB (test optical and coaxial separately)

That's a lot of combinations, and of course no one's forcing you to do all of them. The most important ones will be the analog outputs, digital into the receiver (with any player), and digital into the 0404 USB (with any player).

I'm not in the group that believes redbook and high-res are separate propositions (excluding SACD, but that's for a different reason). Both redbook and high-res are being read and decoded by the same laser mechanism and DAC section, so if one sounds good, the other should sound good as well.

 

[d-cee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicmind /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks a lot for posting your impression d-cee, I had been curious for about how the budget favourite 0404USB DAC fared against the Ori Zhalou. Lots of great info

you're very welcome

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif d-cee, is there any way you could compare the two without upsampling? Many of the complaints about brightness and fatigue with the 0404 USB sound like what I've experienced when using both software and hardware upsampling.

sure, I can do that. my next step was going to be comparing its performance when using USB and SPDIF

 

[Neville]

So with the 0404 USB, the higher sample rates are only enforced if engaged via USB? If that is really the case then using it the way I really want to is not going to work.

I spent 2 hours this evening with the 640C and to my ears it is tad better than the 79avi, has a wider soundstage and a bit more detail. And that was listening to the 79avi via iLink. Tomorrow I will listen to 79avi via rca

 

[infinitesymphony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neville /img/forum/go_quote.gif So with the 0404 USB, the higher sample rates are only enforced if engaged via USB? If that is really the case then using it the way I really want to is not going to work.

No, sejarzo was just saying that the 0404 USB's digital outputs aren't enabled unless you connect it to a computer via USB. You'll be using one of the 0404 USB's digital inputs to feed the DAC, then its 1/4" analog outputs to the receiver.

Edit: Maybe not... See d-cee's subsequent post.

 

[izquierdaste]

Quote:

Originally Posted by d-cee /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well I received my E-MU 0404 USB a couple of weeks ago now, and I have been letting it burn in, but haven't really had a chance to write some proper observations about it. I will compare it to my Oritek Modded Zhaolu v4 which is the latest version of the OMZ. The headphone amp used is the G&W AT-F100 and the headphones are the AKG K701. Interconnects used are Blue Jeans Cables LC-1 and the digital coaxial is the Blue Jeans 1694A. Transport was my E-MU 0404 PCI to a Behringer Ultramatch Pro SRC2496 up sampled to 96kHz/24bit and dithering enabled.

Just curious if you ever compared the two using usb direct for the 0404. You could always upsample in foobar if you wanted to. I would think this would give you better computer based sound-quality than running digital loops.

 

[d-cee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neville /img/forum/go_quote.gif So with the 0404 USB, the higher sample rates are only enforced if engaged via USB? If that is really the case then using it the way I really want to is not going to work.

that's right, it seems the 0404 USB does not automatically detect what sample rate it is being fed. it must be manually specified in the software.

Quote:

Originally Posted by izquierdaste /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just curious if you ever compared the two using usb direct for the 0404. You could always upsample in foobar if you wanted to. I would think this would give you better computer based sound-quality than running digital loops.

yes yes, it's what i plan on doing next

 

[Neville]

After all the different hardware in my system I got rid of the EMU 0404 and found that the Cambrudge Audio 640C v2 and Pioneer Elite DV79avi were very very close. The 640C only in the lead by a little due to its better soundstage. So the 640C is going back.

Last week I sold my 79avi and replaced it with the Elite DV48AV and what do you know? Its better than the 640C and the 79avi and only costs around $220. Its Redbook playback is exceptional, the best I have heard ever in my system. SACD is sadly lacking if compared to the 79avi but then that player cost 5x the 48AV.

I have not had a chance to try out its stereo playback via rca, I have it sending everything to my receiver via HDMI.

So...anybody wanting a really good cd player should get the 48AV. And to top it off, it handles DVD's and SACD.

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.
Neville

 

[rhythmdevils]

d-cee, have you tried the 0404 using USB yet? I was about to purchase a unit to replace my Presonus Firebox, but complaints about brightness and glare are the reason for replacing the firebox. So Id really appreciate some advice about that.

I'll be using it via usb with my mac powerbook and itunes, mostly just as a dac, balanced TRS to my powered monitors, and the 1/8" out to a home headphone amp...but I dont want to get just a DAC, because I will occasionally use it to input a Mic for video voice overs in final cut pro

thanks everyone

 

[maarek99]

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif d-cee, is there any way you could compare the two without upsampling? Many of the complaints about brightness and fatigue with the 0404 USB sound like what I've experienced when using both software and hardware upsampling.

I have the 0404 usb and I don't think it sounds very good either. Upsampling doesn't really change it much if at all.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neville /img/forum/go_quote.gif Last week I sold my 79avi and replaced it with the Elite DV48AV and what do you know? Its better than the 640C and the 79avi and only costs around $220. Its Redbook playback is exceptional, the best I have heard ever in my system. SACD is sadly lacking if compared to the 79avi but then that player cost 5x the 48AV. I have not had a chance to try out its stereo playback via rca, I have it sending everything to my receiver via HDMI.

If you haven't heard the player's analog output, how can you say that its redbook playback is exceptional? You're using the receiver's DACs.

I wouldn't be surprised if the DV-48AV and DV-79AVi's analog outputs sounded similar, since they use the same audio DACs. The real difference between the two is in the video section, which is improved in the higher-end players.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by maarek99 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have the 0404 usb and I don't think it sounds very good either. Upsampling doesn't really change it much if at all.

What equipment is in your system, and what do you find lacking with the 0404 USB? Can you compare its sound signature with other DACs?

I'm just curious, since I've been eyeing one for a while to use in a mini project studio.

 

[maarek99]

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif What equipment is in your system, and what do you find lacking with the 0404 USB? Can you compare its sound signature with other DACs? I'm just curious, since I've been eyeing one for a while to use in a mini project studio.

Sorry for the late response. Lets get the good things out first. The emu 0404 usb is the best sounding "soundcard"-based device I've heard. It beats the Auzentech Prelude, X-fi cards and the emu 0404 pci version. It's very clean (no hiss at all) very controlled (no bass bloat) and it actually sounds quite nice. I did a comparison with it today against the Prelude and it did come on top with some fast comparisons. My main beef with it is that it misses something for lack of a better word. It has a bit of upper treble glare and it it emphasises upper bass. Texture of sounds isn't completely there. The sound is not what I would call high-end, but it is pretty hifi so go for it. I'd say it fits just right in in a mini studio.

 

[Skylarke]

Epic thread dredge-up incoming!!!
Just picked up one of these for pennie, still sounds great...

Using the 0404 USB as an standalone external DAC(without a computer) the optical digital input defaults to 44.1kHz sample rate when switched on, what happens if the upstream device is sending 48kHz or higher, will the 0404 still do the DA conversion albeit at 44.1kHz or will nothing happen and there will be no audio on the analogue outputs?