[Neville]

I bought this yesterday with the notion of using my dvd player (lying around) which is a Pioneer 626 as the transport. Connecting them together with an optical and going from the EMU with a mini stereo to my reciver with a Y Splitter yielded some improvement. Glaring of some cds were gone and a little more detail was evident. I let ir run/loop overnight and will listen to it again this afternoon.

Is anybody using it for the same purpose? Would like to hear your results...

Neville

 

[dmcs414]

I'm doing the same thing, using my 0404 as a DAC for my cheapo CDP (Denon DCM-290) until my Sony CE595 SACD player comes in. So far I can't complain. Makes CDs from that player sound just as nice as FLAC or ALAC files from Foobar on my PC. I've really enjoyed my 0404 so much that I'm having trouble understanding why people spend a thousand dollars or more on a dedicated DAC.

 

[sejarzo]

It will be very interesting to see if you actually prefer the 0404 USB to the internal D/A section in the CD595 for CD playback.

I'm betting that you will find the 0404 USB to be more detailed, with the CE595 warmer and possibly more forgiving on less-than-great recordings.

 

[Neville]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmcs414 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm doing the same thing, using my 0404 as a DAC for my cheapo CDP (Denon DCM-290) until my Sony CE595 SACD player comes in. So far I can't complain. Makes CDs from that player sound just as nice as FLAC or ALAC files from Foobar on my PC. I've really enjoyed my 0404 so much that I'm having trouble understanding why people spend a thousand dollars or more on a dedicated DAC.

When i had my pc hooked up I went from the Chaintech AV710 to the 0404 pci to the 1212 pci and now have done away with the PC all together.

The 1212 imo is the better of all 3, but the 0404 usb is convenient in that I dont need a PC. after letting it run for 24 hours I went back to listen and found the soundstage opened up, more depth and certain recording brought the singers to the front, almost "scarying me" LOL in that it was pretty realistic.

I also have found more spaces (if that makes any sense) between the instruments.

I'm going to run the 0404 usb to my receiver using the optical out (on 0404)instead the mini stereo to Y split rca connectors to see if that does anything. I'm also going to hook up the video display of the dvd to see what options if any are related to audo/optical/pcm settings just to make sure I got it setup right. But from what I'm hearing now, I think its all pretty good.

I do wonder what the Benchmak DAC1 with and without USB has over this dac ? I certainly cannot afford it anyway.

I originally was looking at the Cambridge Audio 640Cv2 and Rotel RCD-1072 but decided to opt for this cheaper route.

Drop me line when you receive your cd player, just to hear your feedback on whether the 0404 is still your choice. Thanks for your input.

 

[sejarzo]

The optical or coax outputs of the 0404 USB are actively only when you are driving the 0404 USB via USB with an ASIO-compliant application.

What would you be gaining, even if it did work? All that would accomplish is a retransfer of the digital data from your DVD player, if I understand your set-up correctly.

 

[dmcs414]

I'd be interested to know whether you notice much (or any) change from going from rca to optical to connect your 0404 and receiver. That's one area I've been unsure of, as to whether there's a substantial difference in SQ between those cable types. (I just noticed sejarzo's post so this question may be irrelevant if that's the case...let us know if it works)

Do you guys know what type of DAC chip is in the 0404? I wonder how the chip compares to those in the more expensive DACs like the Benchmark.

I'll definitely report in here when I get my new CE595 SACD player. I'm really interested in whether I'll notice any difference in using the 0404 versus the Sony's DAC.

Talk to you guys later,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neville /img/forum/go_quote.gif When i had my pc hooked up I went from the Chaintech AV710 to the 0404 pci to the 1212 pci and now have done away with the PC all together. The 1212 imo is the better of all 3, but the 0404 usb is convenient in that I dont need a PC. after letting it run for 24 hours I went back to listen and found the soundstage opened up, more depth and certain recording brought the singers to the front, almost "scarying me" LOL in that it was pretty realistic. I also have found more spaces (if that makes any sense) between the instruments. I'm going to run the 0404 usb to my receiver using the optical out (on 0404)instead the mini stereo to Y split rca connectors to see if that does anything. I'm also going to hook up the video display of the dvd to see what options if any are related to audo/optical/pcm settings just to make sure I got it setup right. But from what I'm hearing now, I think its all pretty good. I do wonder what the Benchmak DAC1 with and without USB has over this dac ? I certainly cannot afford it anyway. I originally was looking at the Cambridge Audio 640Cv2 and Rotel RCD-1072 but decided to opt for this cheaper route. Drop me line when you receive your cd player, just to hear your feedback on whether the 0404 is still your choice. Thanks for your input.

 

[sejarzo]

The 0404 USB has the Asahi Kasei or "AKM" AK4396 DAC chip--the top of the line from that manufacturer.

 

[Neville]

Sejarzo, yes you are right in that all it would be is a an extension/"chain gang" so no real benefits to that. I did not have a second optical lying around so was unable to test.

I got a pretty good deal on a Cambridge Audio 640C V2 cdp and should have it by friday. I'm pretty sure that it will knock the socks off my Pioneer Elite 79avi sacd/dvd player in Redbook.

I'll post back how they all compare.

 

[sejarzo]

That will be interesting, though the Cambridge just might not stomp the Pioneer as much as you think.

More extensive listening to my Marantz SA8001 is convincing me that it's a dang fine redbook player in addition to SACD. For whatever reason, I find it absolutely non-fatiguing versus the 0404 USB, which can be edgy on bad recordings.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmcs414 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do you guys know what type of DAC chip is in the 0404? I wonder how the chip compares to those in the more expensive DACs like the Benchmark.

They include different chip designs, but it's the implementation that really sets them apart. Otherwise, one might find that the 0404 USB has better specifications.

AKM AK4396 (0404 USB)
Analog Devices AD1853 (Benchmark DAC1)

Neville, I've tried a few different DAC implementations from Cirrus, AKM, and Burr-Brown, and found that they all sounded very different. Cirrus had the most revealing top end, AKM had the largest and most accurate soundstage with a neutral frequency presentation, and Burr-Brown sounded the most "forward" of them all, with high amounts of detail in the bass and lower treble. YMMV, though.

I imagine this is what you'll hear with the 0404 USB (AKM AK4396) versus the Pioneer Elite DV-79AVI (Burr-Brown PCM1738E). I have the Elite DV-45A, which has the same PCM1738E DAC section, and the difference between it and the AKM AK4383 in my VSX-56TXi receiver is very noticeable. The PCM1738E isn't a typical delta-sigma DAC like the rest, though--it's an advanced segment DAC, which means that its sound signature will have a different emphasis.

 

[Neville]

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif They include different chip designs, but it's the implementation that really sets them apart. Otherwise, one might find that the 0404 USB has better specifications. AKM AK4396 (0404 USB) Analog Devices AD1853 (Benchmark DAC1) Neville, I've tried a few different DAC implementations from Cirrus, AKM, and Burr-Brown, and found that they all sounded very different. Cirrus had the most revealing top end, AKM had the largest and most accurate soundstage with a neutral frequency presentation, and Burr-Brown sounded the most "forward" of them all, with high amounts of detail in the bass and lower treble. YMMV, though. I imagine this is what you'll hear with the 0404 USB (AKM AK4396) versus the Pioneer Elite DV-79AVI (Burr-Brown PCM1738E). I have the Elite DV-45A, which has the same PCM1738E DAC section, and the difference between it and the AKM AK4383 in my VSX-56TXi receiver is very noticeable. The PCM1738E isn't a typical delta-sigma DAC like the rest, though--it's an advanced segment DAC, which means that its sound signature will have a different emphasis.

OK, now you got my attention!!!! I have the Pioneer Elite VSX-74txvi receiver and the Elite 79avi going to my receiver via iLink. So....is this the better route or going RCA into my receiver instead of iLink.

Just to help me out here........ when using iLink connection, does it use the onboard dacs in the player or is the receiver being used?

In order for me to enjoy redbook in my 79avi I have to use one of those cd "rings"/"platters" that sit on top of the cd and that helps it by quite a bit. Since I started using the 0404USB I have had no real desire to use that tweak, also have not had much time to do real A/B tests. Looks like I got a lot of testing ahead of me this weekend.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neville /img/forum/go_quote.gif OK, now you got my attention!!!! I have the Pioneer Elite VSX-74txvi receiver and the Elite 79avi going to my receiver via iLink. So....is this the better route or going RCA into my receiver instead of iLink.

Hard to say. The Pioneer Elite VSX-74TXVi uses Burr-Brown DSD1791 DACs. These same DACs were used in the budget DV-563A DVD player back in 2003. The PCM1738, on the other hand, was Burr-Brown's top-of-the-line DAC at one point, and continues to be used in some high-end and boutique equipment. So, I'd give the edge in pedigree to the DVD player in this case.

I own a DV-563A too, and found that the sound quality was very similar to that of the Elite DV-45A, so you may find the difference to be small. Just remember to use some decent analog cables for testing purposes (ex. BJC LC-1), since digital transmission generally suffers less loss over cabling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neville Just to help me out here........ when using iLink connection, does it use the onboard dacs in the player or is the receiver being used?

iLink is a digital connection, so when you use it, you're using the receiver's DACs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neville In order for me to enjoy redbook in my 79avi I have to use one of those cd "rings"/"platters" that sit on top of the cd and that helps it by quite a bit. Since I started using the 0404USB I have had no real desire to use that tweak, also have not had much time to do real A/B tests. Looks like I got a lot of testing ahead of me this weekend.

Huh... The effect of that tweak might indicate that the laser needs to be recalibrated. It may negatively affect the resulting audio quality, both digital and analog, if it turns out that the tweak is causing read errors (which might actually result in a more pleasant sound to some people). So for testing purposes, it might be best not to use it.

Edit: But I guess that's not always true... It could be that the weight of the ring is helping to stabilize the CD platter during its rotation. I remember another Head-Fier member mentioning this tweak for Philips CD players and saying that it resulted in measurable improvements. So, I take it back.

 

[Neville]

infinitesymphony,

So all this time I have not been using the latest and greatest DAC in my player? I know DACS are not the be all and end all of it but it does play a critical role right ? So I think what I should be doing is (and correct me where needed) :

1. test redbook on 79avi with rca output into receiver
2. test pioneer dvd626 player rca into receiver
3. test Cambridage Audio 640C player with rca into receiver
4. test pioneer dvd626 going into 0404 USB with optical and using rca connectors runing into receiver
5. test all the above with the "cd mat" If I have the strength or time over the weekend

I recently got into HD DVD (Toshiba A30) and have not listened to any redbook but from what I have read on furms its not very good at it.
WOuld be nice if I could only have 1 player excel in all but priced below $500.

 

[d-cee]

Well I received my E-MU 0404 USB a couple of weeks ago now, and I have been letting it burn in, but haven't really had a chance to write some proper observations about it.

I will compare it to my Oritek Modded Zhaolu v4 which is the latest version of the OMZ.

The headphone amp used is the G&W AT-F100 and the headphones are the AKG K701. Interconnects used are Blue Jeans Cables LC-1 and the digital coaxial is the Blue Jeans 1694A. Transport was my E-MU 0404 PCI to a Behringer Ultramatch Pro SRC2496 up sampled to 96kHz/24bit and dithering enabled.

I decided to use the Coaxial in on the 0404 USB as opposed to its USB to make the playing field as fair as possible.

The sound signatures of the two are quite different, the OMZ is not so in your face, more laid back whereas the 0404 USB is more in your face and aggressive sounding.

0404 USB has a top end sizzle and upper bass emphasis. The top end of the 0404 USB is quite sibilant actually in my above setup and suffers some digital glare.

Although the OMZ's strength is its mids its treble are less emphasized but they extend higher and are more detailed and the bass is more balanced and extends deeper and is more tuneful. The bass on the 0404 USB sounds monotonous by comparison.

The OMZ is more detailed overall in every aspect and doesn't have the digital harshness the 0404 USB does. The 0404 USB has a grain across the spectrum that is fatiguing after a while and is easily noticed switching back and forth between the two. It almost sounds like the 0404 USB is being forced to etch out its sound whereas the OMZ is smooth and the music just flows out with limitless ease.

Sound stage is easy also, the 0404 USB is narrower and more in your face, the OMZ is wide and deep in all directions and instrument separation is much easier on the OMZ. The 0404 USB tends to become muddled in complex musical passages and struggles to keep up with the pace.

I'll also comment on the headphone amp on the 0404 USB. It's pretty useless with high impedance phones, it simply runs out of juice and its relatively low detailed sound works well in some ways with the 0404 USB's DACs sound it has a top end roll off that masks the sibilance in the treble somewhat. Everything else is much the same as observed above.

Overall the 0404 USB is good in its own right especially considering its price and its versatility and connectivity. It's convenient for what it brings together and I will be using its mics inputs for recording and monitoring but there's no way I'd use it as my source after becoming so used to the OMZ. The OMZ although being a bit over twice the price of the 0404 USB brings so much more musical enjoyment, more than the price difference IMHO and is excellent value in itself.

My purpose for purchasing the 0404 USB however was as a digital transport for my laptop and for that it does it quite well. I've never had any issues using E-MU products and the 0404 USB is no exception, quick and easy to setup and snaps straight into ASIO from Winamp. It'll probably eventually replace my 0404 PCI on my desktop machine too.

One thing to note though, if you plan on using the 0404 USB as an external DAC is that the digital in defaults to 44.1kHz sample rate, so unless you have the 0404 USB plugged into your computer allowing you to change between different sample rates it doesn't make much sense to use the 0404 USB as a standalone DAC if the signal is upsampled. So it can't truly be standalone.

 

[musicmind]

Thanks a lot for posting your impression d-cee, I had been curious for about how the budget favourite 0404USB DAC fared against the Ori Zhalou. Lots of great info