[514077]

 

  First- my voltage booster has NO switching regulators and is dead silent.
 
Regarding how much I spent on two intonas and a RUR;- well- your product is not available yet nor did I know it would be..  If it was- I would of bought it instead and achieved a very similar result.
 
My two intonas and RUR is nevertheless certainly cheaper and I would guess better than a RUR or Regen and a $1000 power supply.
 
I wish you luck on your project.   I know it will sound incredible because I already have it in my own made up way.  An all in one box solution will be preferred. 

Hi:
 
Sorry if I gave any offense.  I meant none at all.  I was just surprised, as you are the first person I have ever seen using a second Intona just to provide voltage to step-up to power an RuR.  Very creative! 

 
I am guessing your DAC does not draw any current from the VBUS of the RuR.  Because a linear boost converter has to trade off current to boost the Intona's voltage from 5V to 9V.  And the Intona (unless you are feeding it from a separate 1A allowing USB VBUS) only offers 300mA at 5V.  The RuR, with no load on its VBUS output probably draws only about 80mA at 9V, thus the large current loss through the booster is not a problem.
In any case, it does work well for you and I think that is great!
 
Not sure where you comment about a $1,000 power supply comes in.  Our UltraCap LPS-1 sells for $395.  (Yes, our big choke-filtered, dual-output, 5-7 amp JS-2 LPS is $925--but that is generally used for other applications.)
 
All the best,
 
--Alex C.

Thanks for that clarification.  I misunderstood about the power supply options available.  $399.00 sounds much better.

 

[robi20064]

   

 
Wow.  Fascinating to hear that.  And quite consistent both with what we hear here and what our clients (and beta testers of our new ISO REGEN) tell us.   But there are so many people who would and do deny such sentiments as heresy.  And a manufacturer of devices that aim to improve galvanic isolation (our UltraCap LPS-1 being a recent significant example), if we put forth such a claim we would be drawn and quartered.  But I have heard many inexpensive DACs transformed to punch way above their price points--after proper attention is paid to signal integrity, power supply, and isolation.
 
Of course a great DAC--with excellent clocking, its own internal isolation, good topology, and superior analog output stage--should still carry the day.  

 
Have a great weekend,
--Alex C.

Alex,
 
I know you might not be able to answer this yet - for one of the known reasons - but is there a chance the new ISO REGEN is going to have an I2S output? I assume the input is USB only as it's designed for that.

 

[mwhals]

Superdad

Wow, I just recently bought a regen and now there is a newer version in the works??? This always seems to happen to me.

 

[Superdad]

 
Alex,
 
I know you might not be able to answer this yet - for one of the known reasons - but is there a chance the new ISO REGEN is going to have an I2S output? I assume the input is USB only as it's designed for that.

Oh gosh no.  Doing a full blown digital-to-digital converter (i.e. USB>I2S or S/PDIF) is an entirely other beast.
 
Not that John and I have not considered such many times (he could do a really great one), but I don't want to support an internal USB>I2S converter board for hobbyists (ala Amenero, WaveIO, JLSounds, etc.).  And even I2S as an external interface is compromised in a similar (but no where near as bad) way that S/PDIF is.  Having the source (DDC) be the master clock (okay with S/PDIF it gets asynchronously rechecked after those lovely S/PDIF receivers) is not ideal.  I really feel that all audio clocking belongs inside the DAC.  And coming from a computer that mostly leaves USB>I2S or Ethernet>I2S for the input stage of a DAC.
 
At least for now.   We have been doing some advance research and prototyping on an entirely new type of interface--that keeps the master clocking in the right place and slaves the source--and it breaks the mold in a bunch of other ways.  But getting that adopted by others won't be easy, and the first devices we may use it in are about 18 months away.
 
Cheers,
 
--Alex C.

 

[Audio Addict]

Oh gosh no.  Doing a full blown digital-to-digital converter (i.e. USB>I2S or S/PDIF) is an entirely other beast.

Not that John and I have not considered such many times (he could do a really great one), but I don't want to support an internal USB>I2S converter board for hobbyists (ala Amenero, WaveIO, JLSounds, etc.).  And even I2S as an external interface is compromised in a similar (but no where near as bad) way that S/PDIF is.  Having the source (DDC) be the master clock (okay with S/PDIF it gets asynchronously rechecked after those lovely S/PDIF receivers) is not ideal.  I really feel that all audio clocking belongs inside the DAC.  And coming from a computer that mostly leaves USB>I2S or Ethernet>I2S for the input stage of a DAC.

At least for now.   We have been doing some advance research and prototyping on an entirely new type of interface--that keeps the master clocking in the right place and slaves the source--and it breaks the mold in a bunch of other ways.  But getting that adopted by others won't be easy, and the first devices we may use it in are about 18 months away.

Cheers,

--Alex C.

18 months is nothing when you have been waiting years from some manufacturers

 

[Chikolad]

Got a reminder today about how much of an improvement the REGEN can have on a system.
 
I've been using a Chord Mojo at work with a Lenovo laptop and Audeze EL-8s and that setup just sounds great. Very very detailed and spacious.
At home though, connected to my PC and feeding an Audeze LCD-3 I just wasn't getting a good experience. I was sure it was all about the Mojo not being able to fully drive the LCD-3s.
 
I read that the Mojo can be sensitive to USB noise, so I decided to take the REGEN out of my other DAC and connect it to the Mojo. Instant improvement! Suddenly the sound was tighter, more holographic and 3D with a blacker background.
Apparently the USB port on my PC is a lot noisier than the one on my work laptop, and the Mojo is indeed sensitive to it.
 
Nice to be reminded!

 

[John2e]

Are the benefits from this product derived from computer audio only ? Can I expect similar results from my Lampizator Server?
 
Thanks 

 

[Superdad]

  Are the benefits from this product derived from computer audio only ? Can I expect similar results from my Lampizator Server?
 

 
Well the Lampizator Server is a computer, so yes, the USB REGEN--placed close to your DAC--will improve signal integrity and impedance match, the same way as it does for DAC connections from more typical computers.

 

[John2e]

Thanks Superdad
 
I will get this and the power supply thingy 

 

[Superdad]

  Thanks Superdad
 
I will get this and the power supply thingy 

That's great, thanks!  And full refund (within 30 days, less postage) if you anything less than thrilled with the performance in your music system.
 
Have a great weekend,
 
--Alex C.

 

[Neo Zuko]

That's great, thanks!  And full refund (within 30 days, less postage) if you anything less than thrilled with the performance in your music system.

Have a great weekend,

--Alex C.

I want to buy the upcoming ISO Regen for Galvanic isolation for my upcoming Hugo 2 purchase. I'm getting that some want to use the LPS-1 to power the ISO Regen product?? Why do I need a $400 LPS-1 power supply exactly? Does the ISO Regen not Galvanicly isolate by itself? I guess I don't understand but I just want to avoid spending $400 for something I may not need or just don't understand. I want to plug in my Hugo 2, plug in my laptop, and feed a plugged in power amp. I've read that Galvanic Isolation of the USB port is important. Beyond that I really have no idea what that is or why that is. Reading is getting me nowhere and it's all rather technical. I think I just need someone to break it down for me. If the LPS-1 is required to make the ISO Regen work right and galvanicly isolate, ok I'll bite, but otherwise I'm not into high priced power supply equipment at this time budget wise. I just want to properly galvanic isolate the Hugo 2 (as that is something it clearly lacks vs nicer at home DACs) and get the USB connection working at its reasonably priced best.

 

[manpowre]

I want to buy the upcoming ISO Regen for Galvanic isolation for my upcoming Hugo 2 purchase. I'm getting that some want to use the LPS-1 to power the ISO Regen product?? Why do I need a $400 LPS-1 power supply exactly? Does the ISO Regen not Galvanicly isolate by itself? I guess I don't understand but I just want to avoid spending $400 for something I may not need or just don't understand. I want to plug in my Hugo 2, plug in my laptop, and feed a plugged in power amp. I've read that Galvanic Isolation of the USB port is important. Beyond that I really have no idea what that is or why that is. Reading is getting me nowhere and it's all rather technical. I think I just need someone to break it down for me. If the LPS-1 is required to make the ISO Regen work right and galvanicly isolate, ok I'll bite, but otherwise I'm not into high priced power supply equipment at this time budget wise. I just want to properly galvanic isolate the Hugo 2 (as that is something it clearly lacks vs nicer at home DACs) and get the USB connection working at its reasonably priced best.

 
The Regen module needs power on the "clean" side or DAC side to work. Therefore a Power Supply is needed. Once you plug in a power supply, the same issue goes with noise towards the DAC on the 5vbus. This is where LPS-1 comes in, it feeds the "clean" side of the Regen module with ultra capacitor banks that is cut off from the AC power entirely (one ultra capacitor bank charging while the other one in use).
 
The funny thing is, after I digged into this, that on the DAC a typically USB chip implementation sits too, to recieve the USB data, and for most DAC's there is no isolation after the usb chip towards the DAC chip itself. This is why I decided to go with USB to AES converter instead, and that improved my system from USB with Intona. Thing is, all the data is there in form of digital signals on analogue waveforms, its just to cut the dac off from the switch mode/"noisy" PC/MAC usb and retime the packets being sent.

 

[Superdad]

I want to buy the upcoming ISO Regen for Galvanic isolation for my upcoming Hugo 2 purchase. I'm getting that some want to use the LPS-1 to power the ISO Regen product?? Why do I need a $400 LPS-1 power supply exactly? Does the ISO Regen not Galvanicly isolate by itself? I guess I don't understand but I just want to avoid spending $400 for something I may not need or just don't understand. I want to plug in my Hugo 2, plug in my laptop, and feed a plugged in power amp. I've read that Galvanic Isolation of the USB port is important. Beyond that I really have no idea what that is or why that is. Reading is getting me nowhere and it's all rather technical. I think I just need someone to break it down for me. If the LPS-1 is required to make the ISO Regen work right and galvanicly isolate, ok I'll bite, but otherwise I'm not into high priced power supply equipment at this time budget wise. I just want to properly galvanic isolate the Hugo 2 (as that is something it clearly lacks vs nicer at home DACs) and get the USB connection working at its reasonably priced best.

Hi:
 
The short is that no, the ISO REGEN will not require our UltraCap LPS-1 in order to fulfill its promise of full galvanic isolation of your DAC from your computer.   But the ISO REGEN--as well as the original USB REGEN, W4S Recovery, microRendu, sMS-200, and lots of DACs--does sound a lot better with the LPS-1 as it blocks ubiquitous leakage currents.
 
The longer answer is more complicated because it involves understanding what galvanic isolation really means, and also what AC leakage current loops are.  I am really tied up with other things today, so I'll just copy/paste an explanation that my partner John Swenson gave last week over at CA.:
 
Hi All,
We should stop using the term "galvanic isolation" for what the LPS-1 does and what the ISO REGEN does.
 
Galvanic isolation means a path has very high resistance at DC, that is all it means, high resistance at DC.
 
The problem with using this term is that almost ALL power supplies have galvanic isolation, they have a very high resistance from the AC line (hot neutral) to the DC output. Even the SMPS have galvanic isolation. It is a bit more variable when you include the path from safety ground to DC output negative, some supplies have a high resistance and some very low.
 
But what we are talking about with the LPS-1 is absence of leakage current which is a low frequency AC signal from the mains to the DC output of a supply. "galvanic isolation" does NOT guarantee this! For example most SMPS have galvanic isolation but have a fairly high leakage current. 
 
A lot of the discussion and confusion about some of the devices and supplies out there is due to confusion about this term. So lets start trying to use it properly to hopefully prevent some of the confusion.
 
Here is the cheat sheet:
 
Almost all PS have galvanic isolation from hot/neutral to DC output.
Some PS have galvanic isolation from safety ground to DC output.
NONE have zero leakage current. (leakage current comes from hot/neutral, it has nothing to do with safety ground)
 
LPS-1 is galvanically isolated but it also blocks leakage current. 
 
Devices such as Intona and ISO REGEN block leakage currents from computer PS getting into DAC.
 
The downstream side of the ISO REGEN is powered from an external supply, if this is a "normal" PS this will create an additional leakage loop through the DAC. The ISO REGEN blocks the loop from the computer but adds a new one from the the supply that powers it. (it will likely be a much weaker loop than the one from the computer). IF the ISO REGEN is powered from an LPS-1, which has no leakage current, there is NO new loop added. The computer PS leakage is blocked and the ISO REGEN supply PS is blocked. 
 
The Intona uses an internal isolated switching DC/DC converter which powers its downstream side with power that is both galvanically isolated and blocks leakage currents, BUT is electrically noisy. The ISO REGEN uses an external supply which can be vastly cleaner and if the LPS-1 is used , also blocks leakage loops. 
 
This whole subject about dealing with leakage loops has not been popularized until very recently, so there is no commonly recognized term for blocking it like there is for blocking DC (i.e. galvanic isolation) so I don't have a nice simple term for this. But please don't use "galvanic isolation" when you mean it blocks leakage loops. That will just completely confuse things.
 
John S.

 

[Neo Zuko]

Hi:

The short is that no, the ISO REGEN will not require our UltraCap LPS-1 in order to fulfill its promise of full galvanic isolation of your DAC from your computer.   But the ISO REGEN--as well as the original USB REGEN, W4S Recovery, microRendu, sMS-200, and lots of DACs--does sound a lot better with the LPS-1 as it blocks ubiquitous leakage currents.

The longer answer is more complicated because it involves understanding what galvanic isolation really means, and also what AC leakage current loops are.  I am really tied up with other things today, so I'll just copy/paste an explanation that my partner John Swenson gave last week over at CA.:

[COLOR=272A34][COLOR=0000FF]Hi All,[/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=272A34][COLOR=0000FF]We should stop using the term "galvanic isolation" for what the LPS-1 does and what the ISO REGEN does.[/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=272A34][COLOR=0000FF]Galvanic isolation means a path has very high resistance at DC, that is all it means, high resistance at DC.[/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=272A34][COLOR=0000FF]The problem with using this term is that almost ALL power supplies have galvanic isolation, they have a very high resistance from the AC line (hot neutral) to the DC output. Even the SMPS have galvanic isolation. It is a bit more variable when you include the path from safety ground to DC output negative, some supplies have a high resistance and some very low.[/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=272A34][COLOR=0000FF]But what we are talking about with the LPS-1 is absence of leakage current which is a low frequency AC signal from the mains to the DC output of a supply. "galvanic isolation" does NOT guarantee this! For example most SMPS have galvanic isolation but have a fairly high leakage current. [/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=272A34][COLOR=0000FF]A lot of the discussion and confusion about some of the devices and supplies out there is due to confusion about this term. So lets start trying to use it properly to hopefully prevent some of the confusion.[/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=272A34][COLOR=0000FF]Here is the cheat sheet:[/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=272A34][COLOR=0000FF]Almost all PS have galvanic isolation from hot/neutral to DC output.[/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=272A34][COLOR=0000FF]Some PS have galvanic isolation from safety ground to DC output.[/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=272A34][COLOR=0000FF]NONE have zero leakage current. (leakage current comes from hot/neutral, it has nothing to do with safety ground)[/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=272A34][COLOR=0000FF]LPS-1 is galvanically isolated but it also blocks leakage current. [/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=272A34][COLOR=0000FF]Devices such as Intona and ISO REGEN block leakage currents from computer PS getting into DAC.[/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=272A34][COLOR=0000FF]The downstream side of the ISO REGEN is powered from an external supply, if this is a "normal" PS this will create an additional leakage loop through the DAC. The ISO REGEN blocks the loop from the computer but adds a new one from the the supply that powers it. (it will likely be a much weaker loop than the one from the computer). IF the ISO REGEN is powered from an LPS-1, which has no leakage current, there is NO new loop added. The computer PS leakage is blocked and the ISO REGEN supply PS is blocked. [/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=272A34][COLOR=0000FF]The Intona uses an internal isolated switching DC/DC converter which powers its downstream side with power that is both galvanically isolated and blocks leakage currents, BUT is electrically noisy. The ISO REGEN uses an external supply which can be vastly cleaner and if the LPS-1 is used , also blocks leakage loops. [/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=272A34][COLOR=0000FF]This whole subject about dealing with leakage loops has not been popularized until very recently, so there is no commonly recognized term for blocking it like there is for blocking DC (i.e. galvanic isolation) so I don't have a nice simple term for this. But please don't use "galvanic isolation" when you mean it blocks leakage loops. That will just completely confuse things.[/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=272A34][COLOR=0000FF]John S.[/COLOR][/COLOR]

Thanks. Just the info I need. I'll defiantly look into the power stuff much later then. I understand it's importance, I do, but I need to get the major purchases done first. Which is going to take me years to finish honestly, I'm aiming high for the completed system. And I have a solid upgrade path lined up to enjoy stuff in the meantime. I do want that ISO Regen asap for my Mojo or Hugo 2 though.

 

[mwhals]

What is the difference between the Regen I bought earlier this year and the newest Regen?