[NullZero]

Quote:

Ah! You are experiencing the Sennheiser "veil" as they call it. The HD600 is known to have a more subdued treble response and can sound muffled on some recordings and material. You can make them brighter by removing the foam over the driver magnet but this is risky and I would not advise it. I would give your ears more time to adjust and if you still don't enjoy them you can go to another alternative such as the HD595 (which is not as good but brighter and clearer sounding) or a DT880.
 

I disagree with suggesting a HD595 to OP for a clearer sound.  IMO, the HD600 displays much more detail, more sparkle and less grain than the HD595's (1000+ hours burn-in at least on both) to name a few - the difference really is noticeable.  The HD595's have an obvious veil unlike the HD600's I found.
 

 

[129207]

I own a HD580 with HD600 grills (supposedly the same sound as the HD600) and my Beyerdynamic DT880's brightness makes my ears bleed compared to the smooth and natural sound of my Senn's. I always think that most people who believe the HD600 to be muffled suffer from (slight) ear damage. 

 Seriously, they're not muffled at all. The DT880 is just bright like the sun. To illustrate: my dad prefers the DT880 since his hearing isn't perfect and the DT880's treble sounds better to him. Possible? 

 

[Katun]

Quote:

I own a HD580 with HD600 grills (supposedly the same sound as the HD600) and my Beyerdynamic DT880's brightness makes my ears bleed compared to the smooth and natural sound of my Senn's. I always think that most people who believe the HD600 to be muffled suffer from (slight) ear damage. 

 Seriously, they're not muffled at all. The DT880 is just bright like the sun. To illustrate: my dad prefers the DT880 since his hearing isn't perfect and the DT880's treble sounds better to him. Possible? 

Of course that's possible. But then you just have to factor in personal preference and realize that some simply won't like the sound. I really don't think every user that has called Sennheisers "veiled" or "muffled" has hearing damage, as I'm pretty darn sure I don't. It's just their very laid back nature that gives them a slower pace compared to energetic treble heavy headphones. Yes, the DT880's were bright, but that gives the impression of clarity. The HD's are darker and bassier, giving the impression of a more sludgy sound, when in fact, not for many users. It depends on the equipment, user, and music.
 

 

[tdockweiler]

There you go again with the E9 hate

Did you try the E9 with the HD-600 or are you just guessing as to how it won't be good and it's just a "toy"? Or wait..have you even tried the E9? The HD-600 is perfectly fine with it.
Strangely enough I don't like the HD-650 with the E9 at all. The HD-600 is less picky about amping than the HD-650 I've found. I still think the HD-600 deserves a good amp like the Asgard.
 
The E9 is quite neutral and doesn't do much to change the HD-600's signature I've found.
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I also found the HD600 a little boring, the DT880 is much more engaging yet still remains neutral. In addition the E7/E9 toy is no setup for the HD600, I can only see them working with a colored, bass heavy headphone.

 

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

There you go again with the E9 hate

Did you try the E9 with the HD-600 or are you just guessing as to how it won't be good and it's just a "toy"? Or wait..have you even tried the E9? The HD-600 is perfectly fine with it.
Strangely enough I don't like the HD-650 with the E9 at all. The HD-600 is less picky about amping than the HD-650 I've found. I still think the HD-600 deserves a good amp like the Asgard.
 
The E9 is quite neutral and doesn't do much to change the HD-600's signature I've found.

Well I like to be bluntly honest, if that affects Fiio owners so be it. I have tried the E7/E9 combo and found the Zero desktop amp/DAC to be much better, and it's half the price. I've also tried the EMU 0404 which is about the same as the Fiio. The problem I have is similar to those who own Monster Beats, it isn't that they're flat out rubbish, it's that owners claim them to be the best and better can be had for less than half the money. You're paying for looks and portability.
 
The HD600 scales up with better amps, I found it somewhat flat on a solid-state Meier Headfive and come alive on a Singlepower PPX3 SLAM - have you heard it on anything better than an E9 or simply deduce it sounds fine because it reaches a certain volume? The more neutral a headphone the more than amp will do to change it's sound, a bass heavy headphone won't be affected much because it isn't as detailed.
 
So I will continue to spread my Fiio hatred as long as I have to wade through the rubbish you fanboys lay down.

 

[VuongPham117]

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That's my recommendation right there. You really cannot go wrong with that.
 

 
Katun, in your review which versions of the DT880s and the DT990s did you use?
 
Is there a big audible difference from the 250ohm version to the 600ohm version?
 
Thanks.
Quote:

Of course that's possible. But then you just have to factor in personal preference and realize that some simply won't like the sound. I really don't think every user that has called Sennheisers "veiled" or "muffled" has hearing damage, as I'm pretty darn sure I don't. It's just their very laid back nature that gives them a slower pace compared to energetic treble heavy headphones. Yes, the DT880's were bright, but that gives the impression of clarity. The HD's are darker and bassier, giving the impression of a more sludgy sound, when in fact, not for many users. It depends on the equipment, user, and music.
 

 

 

[rhythmdevils]

Once again, OP, say more about what you like and dislike about the HD600 or this whole thread will just be a waste of everyone's time.  don't worry if you don't know all the fancy words, just make a list. 
 
Likes
 
Dislikes
 
Or you can say what you want to stay the same and what you want to change.  Whatever works. 

 

[VuongPham117]

Quote:

Once again, OP, say more about what you like and dislike about the HD600 or this whole thread will just be a waste of everyone's time.  don't worry if you don't know all the fancy words, just make a list. 
 
Likes
 
Dislikes
 
Or you can say what you want to stay the same and what you want to change.  Whatever works. 

That's easy enough
 
Likes:
Ultra comfortable even for hours of listening
Modular design
Love listening to classical/instrumental music with it
 
Dislikes:
Isn't the sexiest looking headphone
Makes vocals sounds muffled
Doesn't have a deep sounding bass, doesn't have impact
Does not sound crisp
Soundstage is a lot smaller than I expected
Isn't that good for films/video games
 
I keep finding myself having to bump up the highs on the EQ on itunes. But whenever I do this, it sounds somewhat unnatural for the Sennheisers. It's been hard to find a balanced tone that I like.
 
Also, my headphones have probably been broken in and used for at least over 500 hours.
 

 

[Katun]

 
Quote:

Katun, in your review which versions of the DT880s and the DT990s did you use?
 
Is there a big audible difference from the 250ohm version to the 600ohm version?
 
Thanks.

600ohm for both. I cannot comment on the 250ohm version, but there is a lovely guide here on Head-Fi about all the different models.
 

 

[Katun]

Quote:

Dislikes:
Isn't the sexiest looking headphone
Makes vocals sounds muffled
Doesn't have a deep sounding bass, doesn't have impact
Does not sound crisp
Soundstage is a lot smaller than I expected
Isn't that good for films/video games
 
I keep finding myself having to bump up the highs on the EQ on itunes. But whenever I do this, it sounds somewhat unnatural for the Sennheisers. It's been hard to find a balanced tone that I like.

Sounds like you need Beyerdynamic to me. And the DT990 just may be your ticket.
 
Against the DT880 the DT990 has: better comfort, bigger soundstage, more bass, more treble.
 

 

[tdockweiler]

You really need to tone down the troll-like comments. You really do this on many, many threads and it's gets really old. First it's the E9 because it's cheap and easy to find. Then it's cables apparently because you can't hear a difference and think nobody else possibly could.
 
You like the Zero amp/DAC and find it cheaper and better than the E9? Big deal..this happens all the time. My E9 drives the K702 better than the Asgard which is $250 and it just has better synergy. It doesn't mean it's better. I don't use the E9 much because I've moved on from it, but I'm not going to say it's garbage because I found something else. It's a good starter amp for those that don't want to spend a ton of money. You remind me of those people who just automatically hate all things that are popular. Some people are like this and you can't change that.
 
Then this garbage about you assuming we're all E9 fanboys. If that's not a troll comment then what is? I have 3 amps for my headphones. Every one makes my headphones sound different. The best I've heard the HD-600 was on the Asgard and on the E9 it's not much worse. It has nothing to do with volume. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say once the E9 is the best amp ever for under $200. If anything, most people seem to say that a good headphone deserves better than the E9. I personally find the E9 to be a powerful amp for the price and can drive even 600 ohm headphones with ease. Can the Zero desktop amp drive 600 ohm headphones with ease? Can it drive the K702? If so, then good.
 
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Well I like to be bluntly honest, if that affects Fiio owners so be it. I have tried the E7/E9 combo and found the Zero desktop amp/DAC to be much better, and it's half the price. I've also tried the EMU 0404 which is about the same as the Fiio. The problem I have is similar to those who own Monster Beats, it isn't that they're flat out rubbish, it's that owners claim them to be the best and better can be had for less than half the money. You're paying for looks and portability.
 
The HD600 scales up with better amps, I found it somewhat flat on a solid-state Meier Headfive and come alive on a Singlepower PPX3 SLAM - have you heard it on anything better than an E9 or simply deduce it sounds fine because it reaches a certain volume? The more neutral a headphone the more than amp will do to change it's sound, a bass heavy headphone won't be affected much because it isn't as detailed.
 
So I will continue to spread my Fiio hatred as long as I have to wade through the rubbish you fanboys lay down.

BTW this bolded comment is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in awhile. Just saying. It varies between headphone amps. If anything, the sound of my HD-650 was changed far, far more with different amps than my HD-600 ever was. It took me several amps just to get the HD-650 to sound like I wanted. The E9 however did keep it's sound signature intact because of how neutral the amp itself is. It didn't magically make them sound "better" by changing it's signature and many would probably consider that a negative.
 
The Asgard made them more bass heavy, reduced the soundstage and made the sound less clear than the E9. So basically, my experience is completely opposite to what you said. Of course everyone's experience can be totally different. I do believe the HD-650 scales up with more expensive amps more than the HD-600 does. The HD-600 didn't seem to benefit all that much from amp upgrades. With my K601 there is very little variation in sound between amps as long as it's properly driven.
 
So my point is that there is too many variables involved, so your statement I don't believe to be true.
 

 

[Katun]

 

[Zombie_X]

What I meant is to say they are known for not being all that bright, which they aren't. While the HD600 is a neutral headphone, it's on the warm side of neutral. It has the smoother treble, fuller mids, and nice hefty bass. The muffled bit you said you heard is what I called subdued treble. Maybe subdued was the wrong choice of wording but the HD600 definitely aren't treble oriented but more mids/bass oriented. They have a very analog type sound to them. Yet again probably not my best choice of wording.
 
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Known to have subdued treble?  Compared to what?  The HD600 IME is known to be a very neutral headphone in terms of FR.  I also find them to sound muffled, but I don't think it's a frequency response issue. 
 
But the OP ought to mention more about what he dislikes and likes about the HD600 otherwise he will just get all kinds of random recommendations. 

 

[tdockweiler]

Just curious, but do you prefer the HD-595 over the 598? To me, the 598 is a total improvement if the HD-595 sounds the same as a fully modded 555. I think the 598 even has more treble than my HD-650 and HD-600. For me, my suggestion for a Sennheiser-like sound with more treble is the 598.
 
I still think it's the easiest headphone from Sennheiser for more people to like. The 650 and HD-600 are definitely not for everyone. For me, the 598 is far more engaging and just so much fun to listen to.
 
I remember back in the day I upgraded my old (non-silver screened) HD-600 to the K601. Neither of them are treble heavy, but the K601 was a tad more fun to listen to and clearer than the HD-600. Now my K601 has some competition with the 598. HD-600 definitely had more bass though.
 
I don't think I could ever use the term "veiled" any more for a 598. It's still fairly forgiving of source quality, but definitely not veiled. It seems everyone on here doesn't know for sure what this "veil' is from. I sure don't, but it seems to get reduced with different cables and amps.
 

 
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What I meant is to say they are known for not being all that bright, which they aren't. While the HD600 is a neutral headphone, it's on the warm side of neutral. It has the smoother treble, fuller mids, and nice hefty bass. The muffled bit you said you heard is what I called subdued treble. Maybe subdued was the wrong choice of wording but the HD600 definitely aren't treble oriented but more mids/bass oriented. They have a very analog type sound to them. Yet again probably not my best choice of wording.
 

 

 

[rhythmdevils]

Quote:

What I meant is to say they are known for not being all that bright, which they aren't. While the HD600 is a neutral headphone, it's on the warm side of neutral. It has the smoother treble, fuller mids, and nice hefty bass. The muffled bit you said you heard is what I called subdued treble. Maybe subdued was the wrong choice of wording but the HD600 definitely aren't treble oriented but more mids/bass oriented. They have a very analog type sound to them. Yet again probably not my best choice of wording.
 

IMO treble is supposed to be smooth, that is what's so special about the HD600 IMO- smooth but not recessed. 
 
I don't think the dull character has anything to do with FR, I think it is either a transient speed issue, or a damping issue or just a characteristic of that driver.  If you got the same exact FR out of an ortho driver, it would sound anything but dull.