The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.
Apr 25, 2021 at 9:03 AM Post #16 of 97,582
Rockwell75, are you by chance, of Asian decent? The reason I ask this is that Mest OG is supposed to be voiced for Asian ears, and Mest 2 is supposed to be voiced for Western ears. How many hours do you have on your Mest 2? Are we to expect a Mest OG Vs, Mest 2 compare from you?
I am a semi follower of yours here and at the other forum because I think you have young trained ears and good equipment. Looking forward to your opinions.
Me. I am looking forward to buying a M8 and the Dorado 2020 before the end of the year. I have my UM Mest 2, Solaris SE Andromeda OG and .........to keep me occupied until then.
 
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Apr 25, 2021 at 9:11 AM Post #17 of 97,582
Next up in my effort to consolidate all my major reviews/impressions in one thread here is a shootout I did between the Solaris SE, u12t, LX and VE8:

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Ode to the 4 directions

Something of a 4-way shootout: My impressions of the Vision Ears VE8, Campfire Audio Solaris SE, 64 Audio u12t and Empire Ears Legend X

One year ago today I was sitting down to gather my impressions of my then-just-a-few-days-old OG Solaris. It was my first real “endgame” IEM but what I didn’t realize at the time was that my journey was only beginning. In the year that followed I have bought and sold my way through a number of high-end IEMs and daps-- sometimes purchasing new gear due to dissatisfaction with old gear, and other times simply due to the irresistible persuasion of curiosity that is the true driving force of this hobby—and have presently settled on the VE8, Solaris SE, and Legend X as my foreseeable endgame. Along with a u12t has been graciously loaned to me for a few days those IEMs will comprise the basis of this post.

I have learned a couple of very important lessons this past year. The first important lesson is—take absolutely everyone’s opinion with a massive grain of salt. There is no shortage of opinions out there on pretty much any piece of gear you can imagine—and many of them are glaringly contradictory. This isn’t to say that there aren’t an abundance of great impressions/reviews out there…there are, and anyone who has been in this hobby for long will have a sense of which reviewers or users they will look to for reliable info—but the greater point is that, at the end of the day, nothing can compete with actually hearing something for yourself to determine if it’s right for you or not. There are plenty of quality reviewers out there—Antdroid, Toranku, Resolve and Crinacle (whose graph comparison tool has been especially invaluable) are a few who have been quite helpful for me, or who I have learned a lot from…but there isn’t a single one I haven’t flatly disagreed with at one time or another. There is so much that goes into determining whether I will enjoy a piece of gear—musical tastes, signature preferences, sensitivities, sensibilities, and so on—that, while information from others can be very helpful, it will never be the final word.

The second most important lesson for me has been revolves around the journey of self-discovery that I’ve undergone. One year ago I had only a dim sense of the different types of sound signatures out there— like so many audiophile plebs I started out thinking that if the bass was good nothing else was important. I had no idea about things like resolution, naturalness, musicality, soundstage, voicing or what terms like neutral, bright, warm etc. really implied. Due to my relentless program of “trial and error” this past year I’ve come learn a few things about my own preferences and biases, and what value in an IEM. Further, I used to wonder at people who would build these collections of IEMs and headphones-- why would you need more than a single pair, I wondered. The lesson is: until you have some understanding of and experience with the types of sound signatures available don’t pigeon-hole yourself down one particular pathway or another. Be open to trying new things, get a sense of what you like and not afraid to let go of what isn’t working for you.

What follows is in no way meant to convey any sort of absolute order of said IEMs' objective worth. IEMs, for me are more a "whole is greater than the sum of the parts" sort of deal. A superficial demo (~1 hour or less) will give you some idea of salient characteristics and certain technical features, but to really get a sense of where something fits in the grand scheme of things you need to spend some time with it. I am personally less interested in the individual characteristic components of an IEM's sound and much more interested in the overall gestalt it presents-- how everything fits together as a whole, which is often something that becomes apparent only after you've spent a good deal of time with them. In short: this is a work in progress.

Furthermore, this won’t be structured like a typical review. I am by no means a professional and lack the technical palette that many reviewers have. Further, since I have no access to measuring gear I won’t be commenting too much on the FR of my IEMs. Both 64 Audio and Campfire Audio have been criticized in some quarters for alleged “unit variation” (though nothing specifically has been said about the SE in this regard) and since my VE8 is a re-shell I shouldn’t assume that the FR for the VE8 generally will apply wholesale to my own. Ultimately my impressions are rooted fundamentally in what I hear, what I notice during long listening sessions, what jumps at me when switching from one IEM to another. I will try and be as objective as possible when I can but fundamentally what follows are my impressions and as such will be indelibly intertwine with my own subjectivity.

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WEST

1) Vision Ears VE8

The first thing I should point out before talking about my VE8 is that it is not a custom as is typical for this IEM—I am the third owner and I bought it off a guy who had the original custom re-shelled by Naga Audio to a universal fit. So anything I can about the VE8 here may not be applicable to the VE8 generally, as I have had a few people tell me that universal VE8s tend to be brighter than their custom equivalents. That being said, my one and only gripe with the VE8 so far is that I'm detecting a dash of sibilance here and there in some tracks-- s, sh and ch sounds sometimes have a dash too much emphasis. Now it's only in some tracks...in most tracks I don't notice this much at all but it has been a slight nitpick here and there. I'm not sure if this is 1) just how the VE8 sounds, 2) a problem with the recording that the VE8 is picking up or 3) something to do with the re-shelling process and the fact that the drivers in mine aren't totally optimized for the shells they are in. I noticed on Crinacle's site the graph for the VE8 uni has an 8k spike that is absent from the custom he measured, so maybe this is what I'm hearing. Consequently if I drop 8k by a couple DB I don’t really notice it at all

All of that said...

The VE8 is a tremendous IEM that has rocketed to the top of my list and shows no signs of going anywhere anytime soon. It has helped solidify in my mind the idea that the mid-range is the most important—and most difficult to pull off—element of the FR. When I was a noob in this hobby I was fixated on bass—the first IEMs I sought out I did so because I heard they had good bass. Even through much of the last year my initial impressions of the different IEMs I demoed—Solaris, Z1R, VX etc.—often began or ended with my impression of their bass response. With the VE8, on the other hand, it’s all about the mid-range. The VE8 is the first IEM where I really understand what people mean when they talk about the sound of an IEM being “emotional” or similarly engaging— of the IEMs I’ve heard the VE8 is the one that most consistently sweeps me off my feet, and it does so largely through its lush, natural and immersive mid-range. Don’t get me wrong—the bass and treble in the VE8 are excellent, but compared to other IEMs serves more as the means to the end of supporting the mid-range rather than the highlights in and of themselves. The VE8 is warm, musical, detailed and deep— it plays well with pretty much all of my music and of all the IEMs currently at my disposal the VE8 is the hardest for me to take out.

Of the IEMs under consideration today the VE8 more similar to the Solaris than either the LX or the u12t. Both Solaris SE and VE8 go for the same sort of balanced sound; they are both pretty sooth up top; they both fall decidedly on the “musical/engaging” side of the spectrum in that they sacrifice a bit of pure detail and resolution for the sake of a more fun and engaging sound; they both excel at separation and imaging and lastly they both "stage" music in a similarly immersive way (as contrasted with something like the LX and u12t, where it feels as though you're sitting in the audience with all the sound coming towards you-- with Solaris, and with VE8, you feel like you're surrounded on all sides by the sound). In many respects I would say that of all the IEMs I've heard the VE8 would be the most natural upgrade to Solaris for someone who wants to go custom and is after a slightly more refined presentation of the same sort of balanced neutral-warm sound.

One thing I do prefer about Solaris is the bass texture and sense of vastness and space. VE8 bass is excellent, sufficiently extended and well textured...but Solaris has that DD element that simply can't be replicated by any BA setup. The most prominent aspect of the VE8 is with the midrange. I've always loved the instrumental timbre of Solaris but VE8 takes it to another level of naturalness and nuance-- things sound a dash more "real". Vocals are very slightly less forward than on Solaris SE, particularly male, but both male and female vocals sound more bodied and natural on VE8. Stage on VE8 is slightly more "intimate" but similarly laid out. The sound is more clear and nuanced-- I can hear more detail and separation on VE8. To my ears things sound slightly more "3 D". Take all of this with a grain of salt, however, as I don't think I really have the palette to accurately describe all the similarities/differences. But the VE8 does seem to take a lot of what I love about Solaris and refine it a wee bit.

EAST

2) Campfire Audio Solaris Special Edition

It’s not as technically impressive, detailed or as tonally correct as the u12t, it doesn’t have the lush or immersive midrange of the VE8, and it doesn’t thump as hard as the Legend X—but I would place it second to each of those IEMs in the respective categories. There isn’t really any other IEM out there like Solaris SE—a dynamic hybrid that goes for a nice balanced sound without any element of the spectrum dominant over any other. For much of the past year the Solaris/SE has been the gold standard for me personally. It encapsulates everything I look for in a monitor-- natural, balanced, spacious, clear, impactful, dynamic bass, not to mention beautiful to look at.

The SE represents a subtle but clear step up from OG Solaris to my ears with improved clarity, more robust and forward vocals and cleaner bass. Solaris SE provides coherent and well-balanced signature within a fully rendered 3-d space combined with impeccable layering and separation-- it doesn't excel at any one thing FR wise, but it does "everything" better than most things I've heard (to my ears). I know many have cited "weirdness" in the upper midrange as an issue with Solaris...but I've never really detected it, much less been put off by it. I will say though, that if you listen to a lot of female vocals or music that requires a lot of presence in the upper-mid/lower treble region (J-Pop, K-Pop) then the Solaris may not be a good bet (due to reports I’ve heard from others).

And yes, there is a hint of the "BA texture" to the bass...but it's far and away a DD above all. The u12t and VE8 both have great bass, but the lack of DD is noticeable and neither of them extend as deeply as Solaris does on the low end

Again, what I really appreciate about Solaris SE is the perfect balance it brings to the spectrum-- there's just enough of everything and nothing is overwhelming. This is something that stands out more and more as my hours on it wear on-- CFA has, imho, reached a "zen" level of balance with Solaris SE. Further they have done a peerless job of combining BA and DD drivers into a balanced "total package" IEM. Solaris might not be for everyone, but it's definitely for me.

North

3) 64 Audio u12t

Ahh the mighty u12t. This is the only IEM of the 4 I’m covering today that I don’t own however thanks to a friend, who graciously lent me his for over a week, I was able to finally get to know it.

My experience with and of the u12t has helped me come to a greater understanding of my own tastes and preferences. Let’s get one thing clear off the bat-- the u12t is an absolutely exceptional IEM...listening to it I was blown away by the detail, the staging, the precision, the layering...it really exposes everything in the recording you're listening to. Add on to that it’s got a very non-aggressive tonality that basically plays well with everything. It didn’t matter what I threw at it everything sounded good on the u12t. When I first started looking at IEMs many months ago 64 Audio and the u12t were among the first to catch my attention, but when I visited the website it described it as an IEM primarily for stage musicians…I didn’t understand what that meant at the time but it steered me away a little bit, especially considering that 64’s “audiophile” offerings like the Fourte are way more than I’d ever be able to afford. Fast forward to now where, after finally getting some time with the u12t I fully understand why it would be perfect for stage musicians. The u12t presents every layer of the recording you’re listing to in such a way that 1) you can isolate each layer at any time and get lost in its details and 2) it does in such a non-obtrusive way that you can be totally doing something else (like focusing on your own playing or, as the case may be, writing a paper or something). Even the added bass boost makes sense in this capacity as it is done, not to color the signature, but to compensate for the bass that is lost in the ambient noise of a stage setting. I could see the u12t being the perfect IEM for someone who likes to listen at work, wants to experience the entirety of what they’re listening to but also have their mind in the foreground focused on something else.

This is an IEM for the analyst who values correctness and precision above all. When I was listening to the u12t I was consistently in awe of it...such a great reference sound but with killer DD-like bass. Ultimately for me (and the way my mind works when I listen to music) with the level of detail in u12t I often found myself zoning out on all the different layers of a recording-- but I have a harder time viewing it as a unity...I'm not talking about a coherence problem or anything...just that u12t is so good at what it does that I just get lost in all the detail and “forget the forest for the trees” so to speak. Put another way, it reminds of an experience I had after consuming some psilocybin back in the early 90s. Some friends of mine were excited because we were going to see Return of the Jedi in the theatre— we thought the experience, in our elevated state, would make the movie super intense and involving. For me, quite the opposite happened…watching the movie in that state all the effects became transparent and all the illusions were dissolved-- the space ships and props looked like models and even the actors came across as people playing a part in a play. It was indeed an intense experience—all the details of everything I was seeing on the screen presented themselves accurately to my mind…but the romance was gone. It was technically very impressive but I was yearning to be swept off my feet. This same sort of thing happened to me every now and again with the u12t—I’d be wowed by all the different layers of what was going on, but it wasn’t quite as emotionally involving or exciting for me as a whole.

Solaris and VE8, on the other hand, sacrifice a bit of sheer resolution and detail for a more musical sound...they’re not as technically proficient in some respects, nor, in the case of Solaris, as tonally correct, but I have an easier time getting lost in the recording in both than I do with u12t. u12t is more correct but Solaris and VE8 are more fun, immersive and “in your face” in their presentation…thus making them slightly more engaging to my ears and sensibilities. When listening to the u12t for long stretches I would often find myself reaching for Solaris or VE8 because I felt I needed some excitement. This is not a slight to the u12t at all—I’m pretty much splitting hairs here as I could easily be happy with any one of the VE8, Solaris SE or u12t as my only IEM. If I could get Solaris bass , space and musicality with a dash of u12t stage and detail all combined with VE8 mids and treble I would stop chasing the unicorn.

South

4) Empire Ears Legend X

Bass of the gods. The thundering yang to complement the ethereal yin of the Solaris and VE8. With the LX the whole signature is defined by the bass-- it's large, it's powerful and it's everywhere. Thankfully it's also very resolving and detailed so that the rest of the sound isn't drowned out in the bass. Nonetheless the bass is present and it dominates. The sheer quantity of bass makes the sound is a bit "closed in"...like you're in a club with the bass pounding...I wouldn't go so far as to say congested, as one of the great things about LX is that it somehow avoids this despite all the bass...it's why I would call it the ultimate "basshead audiophile" IEM. Yesterday I was coming home after the meet and thought to myself that I had spent so much time with Solaris and VE8 the preceding days that I'd neglected the LX, so I put them in for a bit and was reminded why and how much I still love them.

The Legend X is not an IEM you can listen to "passively"-- they command your attention and are utterly captivating when you feel like getting rocked by vibrant and detailed low end. The key is that it's so refined and resolving. The CFA Atlas (which I also love) was described as having "get off the bus and crap yourself bass"... well by that metric the LX has "park your Mercedes and crap yourself bass". It's definitely a "guilty pleasure", but I'm ok with guilt and I love pleasure.
The LX is akin to listening to music in a club-- a more confined space, with the thundering bass permeating everything, much like the oil in an olive. If the LX is like listening in a club the Solaris is like listening on a mountain top-- grounded in the bedrock of the powerful bass, but wide open up top, and to the left and right, so everything has room to breathe. Nonetheless, due to the robust low end on the LX it can be said to be lacking a bit of air, which I get from my #1 and #2 above. Thus the 3 are a perfect collection for me.

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Conclusion

So where does this leave us?

I used to wonder at people who would build these collections of IEMs and headphones-- why would you need more than a single pair, I wondered…wouldn’t one be enough? Now that I've got a modest little collection (all but the u12t here are mine) I kind of understand it. In some ways these IEMs are all more similar than different (with the exception of the LX's bass response) however each of them has something unique to offer and each of them satisfy my different moods at different times. If I want to be swept off my feet by a lush midrange I grab the VE8, if I want to be rocked by a robust low end, the Legend X is my go-to, if I want to be awash in detail and layering the u12t can't be beat, and if I want a little bit of each of those things the Solaris SE does the trick. It's nice to pick and choose depending on what you're feeling at a given moment. Ultimately many of us crave a bit of variety in this hobby…having the right collection on hand that suits different facets of your tastes is a great way to stay excited without having to buy something new every month or two.

In terms of the order I’ve presented these IEMs in today, and the implication of where they stand relative to others I’ve owned/demoed…it’s entirely a reflection of my subjective tastes and preferences— I make no claims to objectivity here. I quite expect there to be many who would rank them differently than I do—this is fine and normal…but the order here defines my tastes, preferences and needs at this very moment. I derive a certain degree of enjoyment from all my IEMs...but the VE8 is the only one so far that's left me feeling romanced...if that makes any sense. I didn't truly understand what was meant by the term "emotioanlly engaging" when describing IEMs until I heard the VE8. I’ve been moved to tears, and to dance…more often with the VE8 than with any of my other IEMs.

After the VE8 comes the Solaris SE. I get that there other IEMs that many would claim best the Solaris in some keys ways, both technically and tonally, but chances are, if I’ve heard them in some way they failed to present the total package to my ears that Solaris does. The VE8 is the hardest to stop listening to but the Solaris the first one I reach for when I need a break from any of the others.

If the criteria was simply “achieves what it sets out to do” then the u12t would probably take the tops spot—I consider it the most technically astounding IEM I’ve heard. It’s also probably the safest and easiest rec I could give to someone who just asked for an IEM that sounds great with everything but doesn’t say anything else about their preferences, tastes etc. Furthermore, it is quite unlike anything else I have in my collection and would make a great addition to it…and some day may. As a standalone however it’s a touch too analytic for my tastes, which leave me preferring the more dynamic and “in your face” presentation of the VE8 and Solaris SE.

Lastly there is the Legend X…no doubt the “odd man out” of my collection. As an all-rounder the LX certainly stands distinct from other 3 being discussed in this post, and if I had to pick only one it would be the last, however for a certain subset of my music (some modern pop, hip hop and some live funk and jazz) the Legend X is so much better than everything else that I can't deny it a seat at the table.

The LX’s bass response notwithstanding there are way more similarities than differences with these IEMs, despite how our descriptions can make them sound like vastly different things. To my ear they are all variations on a "warm musical" sound signature and I could honestly be happy with any of these IEMs as my main.
Can I ask why VE8 has gone so much down your list? I am loving the Solaris LE sound now. I thinking about either VE8 or Elysium now.
 
Apr 25, 2021 at 9:30 AM Post #18 of 97,582
The second most important lesson for me has been revolves around the journey of self-discovery that I’ve undergone. One year ago I had only a dim sense of the different types of sound signatures out there— like so many audiophile plebs I started out thinking that if the bass was good nothing else was important. I had no idea about things like resolution, naturalness, musicality, soundstage, voicing or what terms like neutral, bright, warm etc. really implied. Due to my relentless program of “trial and error” this past year I’ve come learn a few things about my own preferences and biases, and what value in an IEM. Further, I used to wonder at people who would build these collections of IEMs and headphones-- why would you need more than a single pair, I wondered. The lesson is: until you have some understanding of and experience with the types of sound signatures available don’t pigeon-hole yourself down one particular pathway or another. Be open to trying new things, get a sense of what you like and not afraid to let go of what isn’t working for you.

What follows is in no way meant to convey any sort of absolute order of said IEMs' objective worth. IEMs, for me are more a "whole is greater than the sum of the parts" sort of deal. A superficial demo (~1 hour or less) will give you some idea of salient characteristics and certain technical features, but to really get a sense of where something fits in the grand scheme of things you need to spend some time with it. I am personally less interested in the individual characteristic components of an IEM's sound and much more interested in the overall gestalt it presents-- how everything fits together as a whole, which is often something that becomes apparent only after you've spent a good deal of time with them. In short: this is a work in progress.

Furthermore, this won’t be structured like a typical review. I am by no means a professional and lack the technical palette that many reviewers have. Further, since I have no access to measuring gear I won’t be commenting too much on the FR of my IEMs. Both 64 Audio and Campfire Audio have been criticized in some quarters for alleged “unit variation” (though nothing specifically has been said about the SE in this regard) and since my VE8 is a re-shell I shouldn’t assume that the FR for the VE8 generally will apply wholesale to my own. Ultimately my impressions are rooted fundamentally in what I hear, what I notice during long listening sessions, what jumps at me when switching from one IEM to another. I will try and be as objective as possible when I can but fundamentally what follows are my impressions and as such will be indelibly intertwine with my own subjectivity.
Your feedback is GOLD, thank you my friend!
I think you wrote many things I think also.👍🏻
 
Apr 25, 2021 at 9:47 AM Post #19 of 97,582
I'll await your impressions of whatever you wind up trying :)

I haven't heard the Valkyrie (though it has been on my radar for a while). Since it's EE the bass will probably be boomier and not as tight or impactful as Campfire's bass (pick your poison). Valk has e-stats so will probably have more articulate highs. The Dorado's ace in the hole for me right now is its dynamic mid-range. This is something Elysium got me really into and I haven't been really satisfied with any BA mids since.
Did you read Marcus review?
https://headfonics.com/empire-ears-valkyrie-mkii-review/2/
Speaking with another friend that has Bravado Mk2, ESR Mk2, Valkyrie Mk2, Legend X and Odin, he told me Valk2 bass is different to LX.

marcus:
“The first changeup is the introduction of the new Weapon IX+ driver which is much tighter and faster sounding than the original Weapon IX. With the MKI it sounded equally as weighted with the same extension for my money but the transient response is slower and lacking the same dynamic range and clarity compared to the new driver.

As a result, the new Weapon IX+ can pound equally as hard sub-100Hz but at the same time, the peak and fall on a note are quicker creating a bit more perceived space and less bloom towards the mid and upper bass.”
 
Apr 25, 2021 at 10:43 AM Post #20 of 97,582
Rockwell75, are you by chance, of Asian decent? The reason I ask this is that Mest OG is supposed to be voiced for Asian ears, and Mest 2 is supposed to be voiced for Western ears. How many hours do you have on your Mest 2? Are we to expect a Mest OG Vs, Mest 2 compare from you?
I am a semi follower of yours here and at the other forum because I think you have young trained ears and good equipment. Looking forward to your opinions.
Me. I am looking forward to buying a M8 and the Dorado 2020 before the end of the year. I have my UM Mest 2, Solaris SE Andromeda OG and .........to keep me occupied until then.

No I'm not. I'm quite drawn to many aspects of Asian culture (food, history, spirituality) but biologically I'm about as white as they come (English/German ancestry). I found that bit in the advertising for the MEST MKii where it claimed it was tuned for "western audiophiles" rather interesting and it was ultimately what caused me to take a chance and buy a pair. I found it interesting because I think there is really something to this "eastern" vs. "western" tuning thing (I wrote about this in my Dorado 2020 review). Much Western "popular" music as a rule has its DNA in the mid-bass/lower mids whereas much Eastern popular music has its DNA in the upper mids/lower treble. I've noticed this a lot in different Asian brands' tuning of their IEMs-- I wouldn't call it a flaw so much as good business practice as a significant portion of the portable audio market is Asian so it makes sense that the tuning of many/most IEMs out there reflects this. Ultimately when I had to choose between the IER Z1R and Solaris as my "only IEM" it was (at root) the Solaris' tendency towards the "Western" side of the spectrum (read: lower mid/mid-bass emphasis) that won the day for me over the Z1R, despite the latter's sub-bass emphasis. In fact it was this, coupled with numerous characters on Discord who loved to tell me how much better the Z1R was than the Solaris because of how much better the former rendered their J-Pop and K-Pop, that ultimately woke me up to this phenomenon.

All of this said the OG MEST was not one of the IEMs I noted as having tuning "skewed to the East" so I was curious to know what UM's conception of a "Western Audiophile" was. What I noticed with the MKii MEST was not a tweak in the tuning so much as everything I perceived as being really special about the OG (it's vivid and fathomless staging, as well as a magnificent bass response) being removed. The MKii is still a pleasant, balanced and engaging IEM but unfortunately it comes well short of any of Campfire's IEMs in terms of natural timbre and engagement and lacking of the pizazz of the original to compensate for this I did not see a place for it in my collection. YMMV etc.


Can I ask why VE8 has gone so much down your list? I am loving the Solaris LE sound now. I thinking about either VE8 or Elysium now.

Incidentally I'm presently in talks with @1TrickPony to do a two week trade with our respective VE IEMs. The upshot of this is that I will get fresh impressions of the VE8 and from the M8 to boot. Thus far the n6ii + E02 is the only setup on which I've heard the VE8. The E02 tended to exaggerate sibilance, which was my only problem with the VE8 and the reason it "fell in my rankings" a bit. All of that said there is a lot of hair splitting and "flavor of the moment" in my top 10. In some ways it's like an olympic race where the winner only wins by a fraction of a second. For example the VX is very low on that list but it's still one of my all time fave IEMs and one I absolutely love...so an IEM's presence on that list at all is a token of the fact that I love it. The VE8 is to me in some sense an inverse of the Andromeda 2020-- both are very musical and emotionnally evocative IEMs...the VE8 just sacrifices a bit of the air and sparkle of the Andromeda for a warmer more organic sound. Choose your poison.

@8481 that is a very nice track. My initial impression is that you'd be happy with Dorado's presentation of that song however I'm going to run it through Elysium (my reference) and back before I make any detailed observations.
 
Apr 25, 2021 at 10:55 AM Post #21 of 97,582
Elysium review-- originally published Jan 1 2021

Vision Ears Elysium => Effortless, Bold, Utterly Captivating…This is the Way.
Pros:

+Bold and forward thinking driver configuration
+Natural and seductive mid-range rendered in a precisely imaged, well layered 3-d holographic stage.
+Well extended, natural sounding, nuanced lows
+Airy and sparkly highs with shimmer and detail
+Ability to facilitate a near-profound intimacy between the listener and the music
+Top tier cable and case
+Epic unboxing experience with environmentally conscious packaging (all cardboard, little plastic, foam etc.)

Cons:
-Smooth nozzles which means some tips will have a hard time staying on
-Sometimes I have to take them off
...price?...struggling here.
1FCEDC77-6898-4464-B62A-D8F79AC05AFF.JPEG

Following is my personal review of the Vision Ears Elysium, a flagship monitor made by the (Cologne) Germany based company Vision Ears. The Elysium was originally released as a custom monitor in mid-late 2019 and roughly a year later in 2020 a universal version was released. Thanks to some what-appear-now-to-be-prophetic early reviews and impressions by the likes of @mvvRAZ , @circafreedom , @Deezel177 , and @marcusd from Headfonics, I have long nursed a curiosity about this IEM. I was fortunate to be able to demo the universal Elysium via @Barra 's Vision Ears tour. I was sufficiently captivated that, 3 days after receiving the loaner unit, I took advantage of a sale put on by peerless North American retailer @MusicTeck and purchased a set of the universals for myself. This review is not motivated by anything other than my desire to convey my impressions of and enthusiasm for this unique and profoundly engaging piece of audio gear.

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A few opening points and caveats:

1) This is my personal review and as such it will be expressed in such a way as is meaningful and authentic to me. Some will find my approach too subjective/wishy-washy/starry-eyed to be useful—to them I say that there are plenty of other sources of information out there that will better suit your needs. This is fundamentally a hobby for me and one of the ways I derive joy out of it is to share my personal experiences in writing. If this is at all useful/helpful/informative/entertaining to anyone, then great! If not, oh well.

2) My impressions and viewpoints are unfailingly and intimately connected to my own values, preferences, motives and inclinations. It’s taken a while for me to fully come to grips with what this entails—in fact it is the Elysium, more than any other single IEM, that has helped solidify it for me. In the ultimate sense what I am seeking through the listening experience is a degree of intimacy with my music— listener, that being listened to, and the act of listening all serenely dissolving into a unity, or at least as much as is possible. Everything else that can be said—tonality, technicality, bass, mids, treble, and on and on, is wholly subservient to the aforementioned goal. If an IEM can deliver this sort of connection I am seeking while also having great tone, technicalities, bass, mids, etc…then that is great, but ultimately a generous redundancy.

3) Above all the most important lesson in this hobby is—trust your own ears above all. As a corollary to this I would add: always be ready to try something new and give it a chance to express itself on its own terms, with little to no pre-conceptions or biases imposed upon you by other groups or individuals. Sometimes we don’t know what we really want until we hear it. Sometimes we are so used to a certain conception of what is preferred or thought possible that we have a hard time imagining anything beyond that. To wit: the driver configuration of the Elysium is so unorthodox that in my head I didn't see how it could possibly work and though I've been curious about it for a while, I never came close to buying. Turns out it was an act of genius.

4) Synergy is a commonly underappreciated aspect of this hobby—sometimes an ounce of synergy can add a kilo-buck or two to the perceived value of your gear. On that note it is important to try everything you have at your disposal—different tips, sources, etc.—to see if you can find something that works for you. The reward for doing this can be very very great.

5) My musical tastes run a pretty wide spectrum, from classic rock, blues and jazz to various shades of Romanian minimal and dub techno, funk, rap, EDM, classical, vocal, and so on. The sources used for this review, and and pretty much all of my listening is the Cayin n6ii + E02 and Lotoo PAW S1.

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All of that said, on with the review…

The Elysium is Vision Ears’ flagship hybrid and contains arguably the most unique driver configuration I am aware of— Sonion electrostats for the highs, a DD for the midrange and, perhaps most interestingly, a single BA for the lows.

'Twas the night before Christmas in the dying days of 2020 and I was just finishing a 3-week loaner stint with the MEST, an IEM I liked about as much as I could like an IEM without it making me want to sell off my gear to purchase one. The VE tour kit arrived that same day but honestly I wasn't feeling that excited about it at the time-- I'd already bought and sold a VE8 earlier in the year and while I was curious about Elysium I'd pretty much resigned myself to the thought that it likely wouldn't wow me. What I really wanted was to just sink in and spend some QT with my newly acquired Andromeda MW10 and I vainly imagined that after going through the motions the VE kit would languish in a corner as I focused on the Andromeda. Suffice to say that's not how it went down.

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Preliminary Comments

Up until somewhat recently I was too entrenched in the basshead tendencies of my audiophile youth to seriously consider an IEM with a single BA for the bass. The Elysium was released in the spring of 2019 and at the time I remember being struck by its unorthodox driver configuration but unwilling to even consider taking a chance on what I thought would be an inadequate bass response.

After I unpacked the kit I popped in the VE8 before the Elysium to see if it was at all like I remembered from when I owned one early in 2020. In brief: it was basically exactly as I remembered—something of a thicker, darker, more intimate Andromeda. It sits in the upper echelons of my personal favourites alongside the Campfire Andromeda 2020, which I consider to be something of a spiritual sibling to the VE8 in that both IEMs specialize in the aforementioned important quality—emotional connection and engagement, ie., the ability of an IEM to draw me in, to stir my heart, to make me feel something when I listen to my music. It is this quality which to me elevates IEMs like the Andromeda and the VE8 above some of their flashier or more technical peers.

In a nutshell while I loved the VE8 the Elysium is decidedly another level to my ears....

Sound and FR Breakdown

General

The Elysium presents a balanced and holographic sound with a clear emphasis on an open, but not really forward mid-range. I would place it on the slightly bright with a musical leaning part of the spectrum. Vocals are emphasized slightly above instruments, but both are clearly discernible with their own air and space in the mix. Though there is a mid-range emphasis I don't feel that any one area of the FR is over or under-represented (though some people may make this claim about the bass-- it's a YMMV thing)-- my attention naturally inclines toward perceiving the signature as a unity. I find the bass sits below the mids and highs in a way that allows you to clearly discern all the nuance of the bass response without being distracted by it.

Highs
The highs on the Elysium come from dual Sonion electrostat tweeters. In an info card that comes in the the box VE explains that these drivers love power and will perform in different ways with different daps and cables. I find the highs on the Elysium to be crisp and lively, but never sharp; they are pronounced, detailed, nuanced and they blend harmoniously and seamlessly with the rest of the signature. The level of detail they convey is unlike anything I have heard. The closest would probably be the MEST and Z1R but the Elysium handily tops both of those, if for no other reason than minutia of detail, refinement and (imho) more mature tuning. I found the synergy with my n6ii + E02 wonderful as that board delivers a nice wollop of power. The sabre chip in the E02 does provide nice dynamics but to my ears it adds a slight glare to the sound, which tends to exaggerate sibilance in some recordings. To mitigate this I dropped 8 and 16k each by 1.5 DB on my EQ and it eliminated the problem entirely. The Elysium seems to respond nicely to EQ though admittedly this is the only EQ I have tried.

Bass
Here we have easily the most controversial aspect of the Elysium’s presentation—the bass. This is also the element most likely to trip up someone’s subjective preferences and needs. Bass is like spiciness in foods—we all have different preferences and tolerances. What is overwhelming for some will be barely register as worthwhile to someone else. As such everything I say about the bass response on the Elysium could be the exact opposite to the experience of the next person who hears it, that’s just how it goes. In addition to spiciness in food bass response also a bit like sugar in food-- sometimes we can get too used to too much of it, to the detriment of everything around it.

So how is the bass on the Elysium? To my ears it is ultimately very satisfying. It is impactful, well extended, sufficiently dense and nuanced—coming from a bass titan like the MEST I definitely notice a decrease in quantity of bass, but all the info is there and the quality is wonderful. It stands alongside the best BA bass I’ve heard. Think Andromeda in quantity but with better timbre, texture, nuance and a vastly superior surrounding cast. Anyone who is fine with the bass on the Andromeda plus, I would wager, at least half of those who aren't, should be fine with the bass on the Elysium.

The burning question on regarding the bass on the Elysium is surely this: will it satisfy someone who historically requires a DD and lots of slam? It might, and it might not—the key, I think, is how one responds to the topic of the next section.

The Midrange
The defining quality and ultimate the highlight of the Elysium’s sound is its midrange. When I first read about the driver configuration—namely a DD for the mids and the bass getting a paltry single BA I heard the news coldly and sadly…but now having had days and hours so far to fully sink my head and heart into the magic of the Elysium I’m prepared to classify its choice of driver configure a bold act of brilliance. It’s the execution of the mid-range on the Elysium that makes everything come together and justifies every concession and tuning decision to this point. Why is this so? To understand the liberating shock I felt upon coming to grips with the sound of the Elysium it’s important to understand my prior preconceptions around bass response.

Elysium aside all the hybrids I have heard to this date have opted to use the dynamic driver for the low end. This is because it has (presumably) been generally assumed that the best application of a DD in a hybrid is in providing a thick, resonant, natural timbre in the lows—which it certainly does. Mids, typically, are provided by generally-more-artificial-sounding BA drivers. The problem with this approach is that—in even the most skillfully put together hybrids—it always results in something of a timbral disconnect between the mids and lows. This problem stands out more in some hybrids than others, but it is always there to a certain extent. It wasn’t until I experienced Elysium that I understood that this approach is flawed and, in a sense, puts the cart before the horse.

A realization I have gradually been awakening to through my experience with IEMs is that the mid-range represents the emotional centre of the music. Voices, strings, instruments of all kinds…any form of expression most intimately connected with a human heart flows through the mid-range of the music. Since a dynamic driver, by nature, excels at providing a rich, deep, natural and organic timbre they are thus more suited to convey the nuance and texture of deep and subtle soul-felt emotions-- all of which, in music, have their fountainhead in the mid-range. Dynamic bass is indeed satisfying but just as it is rumoured that we only use like 10% of our brains it now seems to me, in light of the Elysium, is that we only derive a limited amount of what a DD is capable of bringing to the table by confining it to the lower registers alone. Bass can be exciting and hypnotic, but it doesn’t grip us by the core of our being the way a properly executed midrange can. What’s more is that with a dynamic midrange we get an astoundingly rich, naturally textured and alluring soundscape. Instruments and voices feel at times so natural, so alluring that they almost break the 4th wall and convince you they are right there with you—and it is on account of this mid-range voodoo that after a short time I don’t even notice the lack of bass anymore and find myself totally captivated with what I’m hearing. Ultimately the issue is that organic bass timbre cannot extend up and enliven the mids to make them feel more organic and natural, however the opposite is true-- namely organic, lush, natural mids can grip us so much that the perception of "naturalness" extends up to the treble and down to the bass, leaving nothing feeling disjointed in texture. It is for this reason that the Elysium avoids the timbral disconnect pitfalls of all other hybrids I have come across.

In most IEMs I’ve tried the mid-range takes second stage to the highs and lows. With the Elysium every tuning decision seems directed towards the aim of bringing focus, body and realism to the midrange. After a couple hours of listening, by the time my brain actually wrapped itself around what it was hearing that very first time I heard the Ely, the effect it had on me was little short of cathartic and the net result was that my idea of what is possible with IEMs-- the degree of intimacy and connection they could achieve-- was so broadened and came as such a liberating shock that it feels like something of a re-birth of enthusiasm for this hobby. It seems so obvious in retrospect. The midrange is the emotional centre of music. Why not give the DD--the driver known its natural, realistic and organic timbre-- to the midrange instead of to the bass which just thumps and never really has the capacity to convey anything truly emotively deep. The mid-range presentation of the Vision Ears Elysium has been a game changer for me and quite frankly I will have a hard time going back to anything less.

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Staging and Technicalities

TLDR: Top tier in all respects. Stage could be a little wider. That’s about it.

In a nutshell picture an Andromeda with a more open mid-range, slightly narrower stage but improved everything else. The most remarkable and enduring thing about the Elysium is the openness and seductiveness of the midrange. Listening to song Get Lucky by Daft Punk and I was pulled into the song like never before. All the different layers lay effortlessly open, enticing and enveloping-- and with texture for days. Fever by Peggy Lee made me swoon. This may sound cheesy and contrite but through the Elysium it feels like I’m experiencing much of my music again, for the first time, and accordingly falling in love anew. Here is an IEM that doesn’t take any “ground breaking” chances with its staging, or novel midrange diffusion a la something like the Solaris or MEST— in the Elysium everything is precisely where it should be.

Comparisons

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The only IEMs I’ve heard sufficiently recently to provide meaningful comparisons to are the Campfire Audio Solaris SE, Campfire Andromeda MW10/2020, Unique Melody MEST, so I’ll do my best to elucidate where I feel these respective IEMs sit with respect to each other and to the Elysium.

VE8
I don't have a lot to say here really as apart from a cursory demo to verify it was the same IEM I remember from January I haven't had any urge at all to touch the VE8 since connecting with the Elysium. That said much of what I am going to say about the Andromeda more-or-less applies to the VE8 as well. In brief: to my ears the Elysium is a wholesale upgrade to both.

Andromeda
I’m not going to start waxing poetic about Andro here—chances are if you’re reading this then you know all about the Campfire Andromeda. The Andro kind of came out of nowhere to become the de-facto reference IEM for much of the audio community—a status it maintains to this day in the eyes of many. Of the Andromeda people often say "nobody, not even CFA realize why the Andro is so beloved". Now that I’ve spent some time with the Elysium I think I understand the appeal a bit more. What both Campfire IEMs do to some extent is push the bass into the background to facilitate a more balanced presentation. Further, they both put a lot of stock in a natural and organic timbre. The Elysium, with its dynamic midrange focus, is really the next and most natural evolute of this line of thinking and it is for this reason that I maintain that the Elysium is the first IEM I have heard that constitutes a wholesale upgrade to the Andromeda..at least in terms of what I most love about it the Andromeda, namely its balanced sound, staging and capacity to sweep me off my feet and facilitate an emotional connection with my music.

Solaris
Like the Elysium, the Solaris is an evolution of the Andromeda-type sound only taken in a different direction—with the DD being used to emphasize the bass. I still love the Solaris and will probably throw it on every now and again when I feel like some more visceral bass…but the approach of the Elysium has clearly won the day for me. Again, it is the first IEM I've heard that is a comprehensive upgrade to the Campfire flagships in terms of balance, staging and emotional engagement. One of the things I've always loved about Solaris is how it pushes the bass to the background a bit so as to not clog out the rest of the sig...Elysium, again, takes this line of thought and pushes it to its logical conclusion.

MEST
The Unique Melody MEST is a technical powerhouse of an IEM, and a very enthralling listen. It goes for a similar level of engagement but via a different means. Where the Elysium grips you with it’s alluring and captivating mid-range and detailed sparkly highs—the MEST opts instead to grab your attention with the awesome display of deep textured lows, technical pyrotechnics and a chamber-of-secrets like head stage. The MEST’s midrange was to me its weak link—serviceable most of the time, but not the most forward, natural or, really, engaging. In this respect it is more traditional. If big bass and sparkly highs, and addictive staging tick your boxes more than an emotive mid-range then the MEST might be for you. I love the MEST and enjoyed my time with it but the Elysium is more to my preferences.

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Wrap-up

The Vision Ears Elysium has, in a very short time, totally and completely won me over. The mid-centric presentation with its subdued bass was a bit weird at first, especially after days of rapid fire jumps from the MEST to the Andromeda to the Solaris, But once I upped the gain on my n6ii and just sat back and let the Elysium do its thing on its own term it wasn’t long before I was swept up in its beautiful textures and gentle nuances-- and the effect is still holding all these days later. Again, I was initially quite thrown off by what appears to be an almost homeopathic amount of bass—and I know of at a few people who did not get on that well with the Elysium on account of this. However the response of my own ears is that the comparative lack of bass frees my mind from being side-tracked by spectacle and pyrotechnics and allows my attention to fully engage with the midrange of the music, which is really its heart and soul. The greatest strength of the Elysium is that it lays bare the essence of what your are listening to...but not artificially as through raw detail and resolution, which can come off as sterile. Instead the Elysium forces you to forsake a little of the visceral spectacle and theatrics of a more robust bass response and instead, through a deft focus on a wonderfully alluring and textured mid-range, facilitates an intimacy with whatever it is you are listening to. Here we have an IEM that sees its role, not to draw attention to itself but to get out of the way, and let you connect directly with your music and to my ears. This connection, as mentioned earlier, is what I am ultimately seeking from the listening experience. At first Elysium’s driver configuration struck me as crazy. Now I regard it as a brilliant act of vision and daring that was brilliantly executed.

The Elysium has totally changed the game for me and is the first IEM I’ve heard that sounds a tier above everything else I’ve heard. It is, in my humble opinion, the IEM to top right now. Other than those whom I feel wouldn’t jive with its bass response I could recommend it to just about anyone. No IEM is "for everyone" but anyone who glosses over the Elysium and doesn't get to know it on its own terms before judging it is imho potentially denying themselves one of the, if not the, preeminent IEM experiences currently possible. I know that sounds like a strong statement-- but as my days with Elysium wear on my heart just cries out “this is the way”.

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Apr 25, 2021 at 10:57 AM Post #23 of 97,582
No I'm not. I'm quite drawn to many aspects of Asian culture (food, history, spirituality) but biologically I'm about as white as they come (English/German ancestry). I found that bit in the advertising for the MEST MKii where it claimed it was tuned for "western audiophiles" rather interesting and it was ultimately what caused me to take a chance and buy a pair. I found it interesting because I think there is really something to this "eastern" vs. "western" tuning thing (I wrote about this in my Dorado 2020 review). Much Western "popular" music as a rule has its DNA in the mid-bass/lower mids whereas much Eastern popular music has its DNA in the upper mids/lower treble. I've noticed this a lot in different Asian brands' tuning of their IEMs-- I wouldn't call it a flaw so much as good business practice as a significant portion of the portable audio market is Asian so it makes sense that the tuning of many/most IEMs out there reflects this. Ultimately when I had to choose between the IER Z1R and Solaris as my "only IEM" it was (at root) the Solaris' tendency towards the "Western" side of the spectrum (read: lower mid/mid-bass emphasis) that won the day for me over the Z1R, despite the latter's sub-bass emphasis. In fact it was this, coupled with numerous characters on Discord who loved to tell me how much better the Z1R was than the Solaris because of how much better the former rendered their J-Pop and K-Pop, that ultimately woke me up to this phenomenon.

All of this said the OG MEST was not one of the IEMs I noted as having tuning "skewed to the East" so I was curious to know what UM's conception of a "Western Audiophile" was. What I noticed with the MKii MEST was not a tweak in the tuning so much as everything I perceived as being really special about the OG (it's vivid and fathomless staging, as well as a magnificent bass response) being removed. The MKii is still a pleasant, balanced and engaging IEM but unfortunately it comes well short of any of Campfire's IEMs in terms of natural timbre and engagement and lacking of the pizazz of the original to compensate for this I did not see a place for it in my collection. YMMV etc.




Incidentally I'm presently in talks with @1TrickPony to do a two week trade with our respective VE IEMs. The upshot of this is that I will get fresh impressions of the VE8 and from the M8 to boot. Thus far the n6ii + E02 is the only setup on which I've heard the VE8. The E02 tended to exaggerate sibilance, which was my only problem with the VE8 and the reason it "fell in my rankings" a bit. All of that said there is a lot of hair splitting and "flavor of the moment" in my top 10. In some ways it's like an olympic race where the winner only wins by a fraction of a second. For example the VX is very low on that list but it's still one of my all time fave IEMs and one I absolutely love...so an IEM's presence on that list at all is a token of the fact that I love it. The VE8 is to me in some sense an inverse of the Andromeda 2020-- both are very musical and emotionnally evocative IEMs...the VE8 just sacrifices a bit of the air and sparkle of the Andromeda for a warmer more organic sound. Choose your poison.

@8481 that is a very nice track. My initial impression is that you'd be happy with Dorado's presentation of that song however I'm going to run it through Elysium (my reference) and back before I make any detailed observations.
I would love to hear your impressions on VE8 this second time. Especially vs Elysium.
The only things I would change about the Solaris is the fit and a touch warmer vocals.
I don't know what you mean by fathomless soundstage, but I find it more impressive on Solaris compared to the Mest, it's definitely wider and it has a blacker background which makes music more analogue IMO.
 
Apr 25, 2021 at 11:01 AM Post #24 of 97,582
I would love to hear your impressions on VE8 this second time. Especially vs Elysium.
The only things I would change about the Solaris is the fit and a touch warmer vocals.
I don't know what you mean by fathomless soundstage, but I find it more impressive on Solaris compared to the Mest, it's definitely wider and it has a blacker background which makes music more analogue IMO.

Yeah man the more people I talk to the more I wonder if the MEST unit I had was a unicorn or if there was some special synergy with the source I had at the time. For me the MEST wiped the floor with Solaris in terms of staging vividness (if not sheer scope) but ultimately fell behind due to the more natural sounding mids of the Solaris. I should emphasize that the only Solaris I compared to the MEST was the SE which imho had better mids than the OG.
 
Apr 25, 2021 at 11:06 AM Post #26 of 97,582
I hear the tuning on the LE is different to the 2020, tighter and more neutral with a bigger shell. It could be that . I don't know about the OG and SE though.
 
Apr 25, 2021 at 11:07 AM Post #27 of 97,582
I hear the tuning on the LE is different to the 2020, tighter and more neutral with a bigger shell. It could be that . I don't know about the OG and SE though.

I've spent very little time with the 2020 (and none with the LE)-- I had the OG and SE for about a year each back to back.

Edit: Insanity

 
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Apr 25, 2021 at 12:01 PM Post #28 of 97,582


Bliss.

Edit: Re-posted from the Dorado 2020 thread a couple days ago. Probably the most up-to-the-moment accurate and personal statement around where I'm at at this exact moment:

"I've got a confession to make...the Dorado 2020 is my favorite IEM right now. It seems crazy but if I look at my listening habits in the 30 days since I've gotten them this is the clear picture that's painted. I'm always going on about the pre-eminence of subjectivity in this hobby and yet here I am feeling like I need to justify this statement, or be reluctant to make it. PerhapsI am feeling this way because it goes against certain elitist assumptions in this hobby, ie., that there's some objective standard of quality or ideal of neutrality in tuning I should be pursuing or aspiring to, or that quality is more often than not associated with cost. There is something deeply engaging for me with the Dorado 2020. I feel that the ceramic shell gives the whole sound a sure footedness and solidity that allows it to resonate with an almost fathomless depth and clarity. It's unlike anything I've heard in any other IEM. The bass on these does grab your attention off the bat but after your brain adjusts to the sound everything falls in to place. I believe the layering and separation is stellar on these-- again due to the solidity of the ceramic...everything just sort of stays in its own lane. I can still put on something like the Elysium and enjoy what it has to offer but I almost need to be in the mood for more focused listening to get the most out of it. With Dorado the aim and experience feels different-- this is an IEM that just wants me to have fun, to put a smile on my face. It doesn't touch me to the core of my being in the same way that Elysium does, but it brings such an effortless sparkle to my day whenever I put them on. Couple all of that with their wonderful bass and rich natural timbre and they are hard for me to resist. I think that in some sense the Dorado is the IEM I've really been searching for since day 1 in this hobby-- it's what I think I really wanted the Atlas and Solaris to be way back when, and most of what I've been searching for through various periods of upgrades etc. I can definitely enjoy other IEMS but the Dorado 2020 are a near total homerun for my specific tastes. I'm really looking forward to hearing the MEST Mkii and comparing them thoroughly...I will likely update the comparisons section of my review accordingly. Still, for the first time since I've been active in this hobby two years ago I feel like I could walk away with what I have now and not look back."
 
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Apr 25, 2021 at 7:00 PM Post #29 of 97,582
On the Dorado, is it easy to differentiate the bass from drums around the 19 second mark onwards?

Yes. It's a little easier on the Elysium, no doubt due to the quicker and not as this bass (as would be expected) but when focusing I would always distinguish one from the other on the Dorado.
 
Apr 26, 2021 at 2:40 AM Post #30 of 97,582
Did you read Marcus review?
https://headfonics.com/empire-ears-valkyrie-mkii-review/2/
Speaking with another friend that has Bravado Mk2, ESR Mk2, Valkyrie Mk2, Legend X and Odin, he told me Valk2 bass is different to LX.

marcus:
“The first changeup is the introduction of the new Weapon IX+ driver which is much tighter and faster sounding than the original Weapon IX. With the MKI it sounded equally as weighted with the same extension for my money but the transient response is slower and lacking the same dynamic range and clarity compared to the new driver.

As a result, the new Weapon IX+ can pound equally as hard sub-100Hz but at the same time, the peak and fall on a note are quicker creating a bit more perceived space and less bloom towards the mid and upper bass.”
i owned the LX about a year and a half ago and really struggled with the bass. I also owned the original Bravado so I think I have a sense of the original W9 sound and my current Bravado MK2 is exactly as said in quote. It is so much quicker with no bleed at all (unless the recording is a mess). It is so present but so clean that it does not remotely sound like the original Bravado and frankly I prefer this bass to what I was struggling with in the LX.. Now source and power may make the difference for the LX but out of the ZX507 I prefer the bass on the Bravado MK2 to the LX on the WM1A.

A comparison of the Bravado bass and he Dorado will happen in the not too distant future. (I hope, as I'm so curious about the Dorado)
 
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