[Bad Username]

As someone who travels a lot with my CIEMs, be it by car or plane...I prefer Apex. My experience is with M20 Apex and the Adel MAM. Apex isolates much better unless Adel MAM is all the way closed, in which case it is useless. Also, Adel does not seem to equalize pressure. Im not an expert on how it works, It might have the second eardrum membrane that absorbs pressure from sound, but i do not find it equalizes constant pressure build up or pressure changes from things like car rides, airplane, etc. Apex does this very well, while isolating outside noise as effectively as regular non ported CIEMs as far as i can tell. I never need to pull out my CIEMs to release pressure like i normally do with non apex iems. I cant speak for ear health, as i have no way to tell. But the apex is more useful for me.

 

[seamon]

  As someone who travels a lot with my CIEMs, be it by car or plane...I prefer Apex. My experience is with M20 Apex and the Adel MAM. Apex isolates much better unless Adel MAM is all the way closed, in which case it is useless. Also, Adel does not seem to equalize pressure. Im not an expert on how it works, It might have the second eardrum membrane that absorbs pressure from sound, but i do not find it equalizes constant pressure build up or pressure changes from things like car rides, airplane, etc. Apex does this very well, while isolating outside noise as effectively as regular non ported CIEMs as far as i can tell. I never need to pull out my CIEMs to release pressure like i normally do with non apex iems. I cant speak for ear health, as i have no way to tell. But the apex is more useful for me.

I'll take your word for it since I haven't tried the APEX ones. Which do you prefer SQ wise?
 
Also have you tried the S1 or G1 modules. I heard that they isolate better.

 

[WCDchee]

As someone who travels a lot with my CIEMs, be it by car or plane...I prefer Apex. My experience is with M20 Apex and the Adel MAM. Apex isolates much better unless Adel MAM is all the way closed, in which case it is useless. Also, Adel does not seem to equalize pressure. Im not an expert on how it works, It might have the second eardrum membrane that absorbs pressure from sound, but i do not find it equalizes constant pressure build up or pressure changes from things like car rides, airplane, etc. Apex does this very well, while isolating outside noise as effectively as regular non ported CIEMs as far as i can tell. I never need to pull out my CIEMs to release pressure like i normally do with non apex iems. I cant speak for ear health, as i have no way to tell. But the apex is more useful for me.

After what brooko mentioned about the differences in the technologies, I went to check it out with Vitaliy, and there's a very good explanation for what you find.

ADEL is still a closed system with a diaphragm that relieves small pressure changed which come along with eardrum vibration as well as with sealing if the ear canal. However it remains a closed system and as such, large pressure variances such as in an ascending or descending aircraft remain too large for ADEL to equalise.

With APEX, contained within the module is essentially an open cell foam structure which, while providing isolation, do not prevent airflow. This means that the APEX, despite having better isolation than the ADEL, actually is an OPEN system where airflow is not obstructed. This allows better equalisation of large pressures.

With regards to other issues like tinnitus or listening fatigue, I can't comment on that because neither are an issue for me.

 

[Brooko]

After what brooko mentioned about the differences in the technologies, I went to check it out with Vitaliy, and there's a very good explanation for what you find.

ADEL is still a closed system with a diaphragm that relieves small pressure changed which come along with eardrum vibration as well as with sealing if the ear canal. However it remains a closed system and as such, large pressure variances such as in an ascending or descending aircraft remain too large for ADEL to equalise.

With APEX, contained within the module is essentially an open cell foam structure which, while providing isolation, do not prevent airflow. This means that the APEX, despite having better isolation than the ADEL, actually is an OPEN system where airflow is not obstructed. This allows better equalisation of large pressures.

With regards to other issues like tinnitus or listening fatigue, I can't comment on that because neither are an issue for me.

 
ADEL is not a closed system - or why do you think the vent is there ...... ?

 

[WCDchee]

ADEL is not a closed system - or why do you think the vent is there ...... ?

It is closed.

The membrane closes the system. When pressure builds up in the ear canal, the membrane can bulge outwards. To absorb this pressure. There has to be a vent to allow the membrane to move. However, the system is closed by the membrane which has a limit to how much it stretches.

For most intents and purposes though, this is far more than enough to absorb changes in the ear canal.



As seen in this photo, anything medial (on the side of the ear canal) to the membrane is a closed system sealed off by the membrane.

The video presentation on the ADEL website too states very clearly that the system is still sealed. And this concept of a closed system is explained at 13.30.

The ADEL and APEX systems are as you previously pointed out, two very different systems which aim to relieve pressure. The ADEL does this by sealing with a compliant membrane that can absorb some pressures while the APEX does this by allowing airflow, both of which are very clever ways to achieve this.

 

[Bad Username]

The vent is there for the same reason a dynamic driver iem has a vent. Adjusting the vent "tunes" the membrane. Yet it is ultimately closed in that you cannot blow air into one end and have it come out the other, endlessly.

 

[Bad Username]

  I'll take your word for it since I haven't tried the APEX ones. Which do you prefer SQ wise?
 
Also have you tried the S1 or G1 modules. I heard that they isolate better.

Sorry, I only have the M20 apex, and the MAM Adel, so i cant comment on the others.
Cant say about SQ since my Adel MAM is on my empire ear Zeus XIV, and my Apex is on my A12. They arent interchangeable in my case.

 

[Brooko]

Well as you two gentlemen appear to be so knowledgeable on the subject - perhaps you can tell me why if I blow into the open end of the B1 modules - I can clearly feel air escaping from the vent?  Its not a lot - but it is clearly coming through.
 
Quote:

It is closed.

The membrane closes the system. When pressure builds up in the ear canal, the membrane can bulge outwards. To absorb this pressure. There has to be a vent to allow the membrane to move. However, the system is closed by the membrane which has a limit to how much it stretches.

For most intents and purposes though, this is far more than enough to absorb changes in the ear canal.

As seen in this photo, anything medial (on the side of the ear canal) to the membrane is a closed system sealed off by the membrane.

 

  The vent is there for the same reason a dynamic driver iem has a vent. Adjusting the vent "tunes" the membrane. Yet it is ultimately closed in that you cannot blow air into one end and have it come out the other, endlessly.

 

[WCDchee]

Perhaps you could take a look at the video on the ADEL website and let me know what you think? Do take a look at 13.30 as I previously mentioned.

You are right I may be wrong. But it was very specifically mentioned that the system is still sealed. Unless I did misunderstand that statement.

I am no more knowledgable than you are on this matter. I merely am presenting what was presented to me in that video on this matter. If I'm misinterpreting what was said, let me know. No need for snark remarks like that.

 

[Brooko]

Perhaps you could take a look at the video on the ADEL website and let me know what you think? Do take a look at 13.30 as I previously mentioned.

You are right I may be wrong. But it was very specifically mentioned that the system is still sealed. Unless I did misunderstand that statement.

 
I'll go one better and ask Stephen and Steve - may as well get it straight from the actual creators.

 

[WCDchee]

I'll go one better and ask Stephen and Steve - may as well get it straight from the actual creators.

Of course that would be best. But perhaps you could take a quick look a tad that video too, just 10-20 seconds or so of the video and you'll see why I say that.

 

[crinacle]

I think herein lies a mismatch in definition; if we're going by the industry's nomenclature then the ADEL module still technically falls under a closed system as there is still a seal being provided.
 
If you really want to get technical, perhaps a semi-open system considering how it controls leakage via its membrane system.

 

[WCDchee]

In any case, so as not to derail this thread, I'm currently working on reviews of these Two earphones, not full reviews because some things with the shell have not been finalised. However, the sound has been finalised and I shall be reporting on that first. The sound should not change from what I have heard, as indicated by 64 Audio themselves. The Fourte should be up within the week

 

[chaiyuta]

It is closed.

The membrane closes the system. When pressure builds up in the ear canal, the membrane can bulge outwards. To absorb this pressure. There has to be a vent to allow the membrane to move. However, the system is closed by the membrane which has a limit to how much it stretches.

For most intents and purposes though, this is far more than enough to absorb changes in the ear canal.



As seen in this photo, anything medial (on the side of the ear canal) to the membrane is a closed system sealed off by the membrane.

The video presentation on the ADEL website too states very clearly that the system is still sealed. And this concept of a closed system is explained at 13.30.

The ADEL and APEX systems are as you previously pointed out, two very different systems which aim to relieve pressure. The ADEL does this by sealing with a compliant membrane that can absorb some pressures while the APEX does this by allowing airflow, both of which are very clever ways to achieve this.

Once ADEL get air pressure, ADEL membrane expands. Once the membrane expand, it lets air pressure go through outside.

 

[Ike1985]

As someone who travels a lot with my CIEMs, be it by car or plane...I prefer Apex. My experience is with M20 Apex and the Adel MAM. Apex isolates much better unless Adel MAM is all the way closed, in which case it is useless. Also, Adel does not seem to equalize pressure. Im not an expert on how it works, It might have the second eardrum membrane that absorbs pressure from sound, but i do not find it equalizes constant pressure build up or pressure changes from things like car rides, airplane, etc. Apex does this very well, while isolating outside noise as effectively as regular non ported CIEMs as far as i can tell. I never need to pull out my CIEMs to release pressure like i normally do with non apex iems. I cant speak for ear health, as i have no way to tell. But the apex is more useful for me.

Closed MAM is not useless. It can be used when you need macimum isolation. Yes the ADEL membrane is not functional at that time but maximum isolation is not a useless featurem