The Official 64 Audio Thread | apex & tia Technologies
Dec 1, 2016 at 6:56 AM Post #226 of 23,677
Well, my experience with the 64 ADEL series are pretty much the same as you but with S1 modules.

They certainly made low volumes sound much clearer thanks to the module and I find myself enjoying music much longer without feeling the need to yank out the IEMs from fatigue.

At least it took much longer for me to do so.

I haven't too much experience with apex modules but from my brief listening with my friend's U12 Apex, I can still feel the pressure relief benefit but compared to ADEL it just feel slightly less apparent.

But both are definitely beneficial for long listening periods.

I've no idea which module I am hearing with my friend's U12 apex since I never asked. :p


I've personally never had much issues with pressure so I won't comment too much on that. But I'm thinking that perhaps the lower isolating m15 module would give better pressure relief for those who need it.
 
Dec 1, 2016 at 7:02 AM Post #227 of 23,677
Could anyone tell me exact diameter of ear nozzle of U series? It is around 4-6 mm when I use a ruler.
 
Dec 1, 2016 at 11:24 AM Post #228 of 23,677
I've personally never had much issues with pressure so I won't comment too much on that. But I'm thinking that perhaps the lower isolating m15 module would give better pressure relief for those who need it.

 
If you haven't heard the ADEL's you wouldn't understand.  I can close the module of my MAMs, completely negating the ADEL effect and turning them into typical pressureized CIEMs.  If I've been listening for a few minutes with ADEL enabled and then shut it off, within just a few seconds the pressure builds up and it's uncomfortable.  I can absolutely detect the pressure now that I'm used to having a pressure free listening experience.  When I re-enable ADEL by turning the MAM knob, I can feel the membranes flutter and make little pops as the MAM is venting the pressure in my canal.  The sound becomes clearer, more detailed with better separation.  I'm able to hear more into the sound as my ear isn't fighting against the pressure as you've previously described.  I can relax and enjoy the music more.
 
As far as ADEL working, I can speak for my own experience.  I used to get the annoying RHEEEEEE ringing tinnitus that would last a few seconds and then go away when I was using my other IEMs, I would get it every day because I listen 8-10 hours a day everyday at work.  My tinnitus is gone, I can wear my A12's all day and never feel the need to take them out.  I never feel uncomfortable and my ears never feel tired.  If ADEL didn't work, 64 wouldn't have used it and they wouldn't have made their own design which ultimately isn't the same technology.   
 
Dec 1, 2016 at 2:49 PM Post #229 of 23,677
If you take a look at the ADEL descriptions now you would realise that they are using much less funky and iffy terms now. Previously you would get the idea that just by using adel you protect your hearing.

However, if you do try to read their description now, the claim is different. It claims that the adel module helps to relieve pressure, thus preventing the triggering of the stapedius reflex and preventing you from turning up the volume, thus preventing hearing damage.

Now while I have some doubts as to how much it would really prevent you from turning up the volume (and Im no expert so I won't comment too much on that), what Asius is ultimately saying is that by turning up the volume less, you save your hearing. So really what this means is that if you have the discipline to maintain your volumes below a certain level, it should not make a difference on that front.

However, I readily acknowledge that both APEX and ADEL will affect the sound from the earphones, that's undeniable
smily_headphones1.gif

 
Asius hasn't just now been saying ADEL prevents the acoustic reflex.  One of the very first-if not the first-videos they put out on the technology said precisely that.  It showed the inventor in a lab coat pointing to a video display of the reflex happening explaining how their technology prevents the reflex by venting the pressure while simultaneously preserving sound via a unique membrane material. 
 
It isn't as simple as having "...the disciple to maintain your volumes below a certain level" since AFAIK none of us can consciously prevent the triggering of the acoustic reflex due to pneumatic pressure (or volume).  You can be as disciplined as you want with regard to volume but you will still likely perceive the volume lowering overtime in a typical sealed IEM due to pressure alone.  Attributing the acoustic reflex to volume alone: "...if you have the discipline to maintain your volumes below a certain level, it should not make a difference on that front." is fundamentally a misunderstanding of what causes the acoustic reflex.  
 
Dec 1, 2016 at 5:26 PM Post #230 of 23,677
Asius hasn't just now been saying ADEL prevents the acoustic reflex.  One of the very first-if not the first-videos they put out on the technology said precisely that.  It showed the inventor in a lab coat pointing to a video display of the reflex happening explaining how their technology prevents the reflex by venting the pressure while simultaneously preserving sound via a unique membrane material. 

It isn't as simple as having "...the disciple to maintain your volumes below a certain level" since AFAIK none of us can consciously prevent the triggering of the acoustic reflex due to pneumatic pressure (or volume).  You can be as disciplined as you want with regard to volume but you will still likely perceive the volume lowering overtime in a typical sealed IEM due to pressure alone.  Attributing the acoustic reflex to volume alone: "...if you have the discipline to maintain your volumes below a certain level, it should not make a difference on that front." is fundamentally a misunderstanding of what causes the acoustic reflex.  


Yes, you might be right. You might perceive the volume to be lower without the adel module that's what Adel is saying.

If you read ENT texts, it is not so simple there are other mechanisms involved with having a second window that actually perpetuate energy loss which result in a lower volume level heard but we shan't go into that's.

Now assuming that Asius is right and that you hear things softer without adel because of the stapedius reflex, their extrapolation is this, that you turn the volume up to compensate, and this is what causes hearing damage.

What I'm saying is this, whatever the mechanism behind ADEL, ultimately if you do not turn up there volume there is no increased hearing damage and if you turn it up, there is more damage to hearing.

Quoting straight from the asius website
"Stephen discovered that when the ear canal is sealed by an earbud, the speaker vibrations create acoustic pressure. In the confined space of the closed ear canal, these become harmful amplified pneumatic pressures and cause the eardrum to move with an amplitude thousands of times greater than normal. Tiny muscles around the eardrum then tighten to protect the ear by dampening the sound. To overcome this dampening you must turn up the volume. The more the volume increases, the more the eardrum tightens. And so on."

I understand the stapedius reflex very well. I also understand that it is not an infinate loop/vicious cycle as it seems to be from the above description. There are of course many many other factors, such as how if the reflex is triggered and we hear things more softly, it's because the reflex itself actually causes dampening of vibrations that reach the inner ear, meaning that when Two people listen to the same volume, but with the reflex only triggered in one person, the person with the reflex triggered actually has A SMALLER amplitude of sound waves reaching the inner ear meaning his ear is more protected, all assuming they do not turn up the volume. However that's making things a little too complicated so we let's avoid that discussion.

But yes the moral of the story is this. Don't turn up the volume and your hearing will be fine :wink:

Again I want to emphasise, I won't comment on things like listening fatigue and prevention of tinnitus and the likes because I don't experience it, and I don't have the required level of knowledge or expertise to comment on it. For those who do, let's go with their experience. But STRICTLY for hearing loss prevention, this is my analysis.
 
Dec 1, 2016 at 9:30 PM Post #231 of 23,677
Likewise, I don't have a hearing or ear problem which can take full advantage of ADEL technology benefit.  But I first discovered about ADEL tech while reading Joker's review of A12, over 2 years ago on THL.  After that I followed every 64audio announcement, watched every video by Vitaliy, as well as many audio show interviews where I learned more from him about this technology than I have even from Asius. 
 
I hear what you (@WCDchee) are saying, but that contradicts a lot of the stuff I heard from Vitaliy and 64audio, and the reason why I ended up reviewing U12 and U6 in the first place.  Not gonna deny, I'm a little sad that collaboration between 64audio and Asius Tech ended, but whatever you refer to as being previously "funky and iffy" or trying to interpret their claims in reference to ADEL is a direct diss of Vitaliy/64audio and everything else that made their A/U series so great.
 
Dec 1, 2016 at 10:35 PM Post #232 of 23,677
Likewise, I don't have a hearing or ear problem which can take full advantage of ADEL technology benefit.  But I first discovered about ADEL tech while reading Joker's review of A12, over 2 years ago on THL.  After that I followed every 64audio announcement, watched every video by Vitaliy, as well as many audio show interviews where I learned more from him about this technology than I have even from Asius. 

I hear what you (@WCDchee
) are saying, but that contradicts a lot of the stuff I heard from Vitaliy and 64audio, and the reason why I ended up reviewing U12 and U6 in the first place.  Not gonna deny, I'm a little sad that collaboration between 64audio and Asius Tech ended, but whatever you refer to as being previously "funky and iffy" or trying to interpret their claims in reference to ADEL is a direct diss of Vitaliy/64audio and everything else that made their A/U series so great.


No I think you misunderstood me.

Previously, the link was not as clearly demonstrated and explained to us between reducing the pneumatic pressures and preventing hearing loss. That's what I mean the by being iffy. I wasn't talking about the tech, but the explanation which has been cleared up, so no More iffy talk :)

However, I also qualified that this is much better explained now, that's all I'm saying. While I do not personally Agree, I don't completely discount the advantages they point out because I'm no expert.

Hope this clears things up.
 
Dec 2, 2016 at 1:02 PM Post #233 of 23,677
I've personally never had much issues with pressure so I won't comment too much on that. But I'm thinking that perhaps the lower isolating m15 module would give better pressure relief for those who need it.


I have my A10 with the M15... you are correct... I think it does a much better job at pressure relief than the M20 does... the APEX technology isn't fool proof, but it does provide some pressure relief...perhaps not at ADEL levels, but it does do sufficient to notice a difference without it...
 
Dec 2, 2016 at 1:16 PM Post #234 of 23,677
I'm not sure about the exact effect but of the 3 non-MAM ADEL modules, the B1 and G1 module are -10db isolation modules while the S1 is -18db.
 
I'm not certain which module most people who report improving comfort are using, but across the board the ADEL modules seem to be less isolation (aka more compliant) than the APEX modules, which would possibly explain the difference in reported pressure relief.
 
However, I think another thing to take into consideration would be that even if the ADEL modules really did reduce the need to turn the volume up, the lower isolation levels would possibly require a higher volume to mask the background noise as opposed to with the APEX modules, just a thought. Not sure how that really plays out though.
 
Dec 2, 2016 at 5:53 PM Post #235 of 23,677
  I'm not sure about the exact effect but of the 3 non-MAM ADEL modules, the B1 and G1 module are -10db isolation modules while the S1 is -18db.
 
I'm not certain which module most people who report improving comfort are using, but across the board the ADEL modules seem to be less isolation (aka more compliant) than the APEX modules, which would possibly explain the difference in reported pressure relief.
 
However, I think another thing to take into consideration would be that even if the ADEL modules really did reduce the need to turn the volume up, the lower isolation levels would possibly require a higher volume to mask the background noise as opposed to with the APEX modules, just a thought. Not sure how that really plays out though.

 
Just a thought - but perhaps rather than making all these suppositions (above and many previous posts) - you refrain from commenting unless you have had the chance to listen to the modules and actually compare - including the differences and benefits.  In Head-Fi's Posting Guidelines it states:
 
Please don't recommend or post reviews of equipment you don't own or otherwise don't have a reasonable amount of familiarity with. You wouldn't recommend someone a car you've never driven or suggest someone live in a country you haven't been to, so recommending headphones and equipment you haven't owned or used is unhelpful. Even if you've seen the same comments about something from a dozen members, save discussion of that if you're intending to buy it yourself. Likewise, People use the reviews in the Head Gear section to decide what product to buy, and brief impressions or comments by people who don't own a product (or at least haven't had it in their possession for a sufficient amount of time) are unhelpful. 

 
I want to be very clear here - because I have had the chance to compare ADEL to Apex - and I also have a bit of knowledge of the inner workings of both.
 
  • There is a very big difference between the technology.  ADEL uses a membrane to effectively reduce pressure, and stop the acoustic reflex triggering early.  This effectively allows you to listen at a lot lower level, and still get all the detail.  From my personal observations, and as a tinnitus sufferer, the ADEL module provides much more relief than APEX. I also want to point out that I absolutely love my 64Audio U6 - it is a wonderful IEM, and the ADEL module takes it to the next level.  I have nothing but good things to say about the service and quality of 64Audio.
     
  • The Apex module at its heart is an acoustic damper.  It achieves pretty much the same tuning as ADEL, with slightly better isolation - but at its heart it is acoustic foam and a vent.  There is no membrane, and no studies to show that it prevents the acoustic reflex triggering early.  With the APEX I am more inclined to turn the U6 up.  With the ADEL I am more inclined to turn it down. I get less fatigue with the ADEL module.  Several others have made the same observation.
 
I would encourage anyone interested in either technology to do your research - including contacting the two companies - and to make your own decisions.
 
Dec 2, 2016 at 6:10 PM Post #236 of 23,677
Just a thought - but perhaps rather than making all these suppositions (above and many previous posts) - you refrain from commenting unless you have had the chance to listen to the modules and actually compare - including the differences and benefits.  In Head-Fi's Posting Guidelines it states:

 

I want to be very clear here - because I have had the chance to compare ADEL to Apex - and I also have a bit of knowledge of the inner workings of both.

  1. There is a very big difference between the technology.  ADEL uses a membrane to effectively reduce pressure, and stop the acoustic reflex triggering early.  This effectively allows you to listen at a lot lower level, and still get all the detail.  From my personal observations, and as a tinnitus sufferer, the ADEL module provides much more relief than APEX. I also want to point out that I absolutely love my 64Audio U6 - it is a wonderful IEM, and the ADEL module takes it to the next level.  I have nothing but good things to say about the service and quality of 64Audio.

     
  2. The Apex module at its heart is an acoustic damper.  It achieves pretty much the same tuning as ADEL, with slightly better isolation - but at its heart it is acoustic foam and a vent.  There is no membrane, and no studies to show that it prevents the acoustic reflex triggering early.  With the APEX I am more inclined to turn the U6 up.  With the ADEL I am more inclined to turn it down. I get less fatigue with the ADEL module.  Several others have made the same observation.

I would encourage anyone interested in either technology to do your research - including contacting the two companies - and to make your own decisions.


Hi brooko, thanks for your input. Could I possibly trouble you if you haven't already to try both these types of modules on the same earphone and share your thoughts on that? I' previously read that the modules were used on different earphones in your comparisons and I just thought perhaps it would be nice to eliminate another variable. Thanks!
 
Dec 2, 2016 at 6:19 PM Post #237 of 23,677
Hi brooko, thanks for your input. Could I possibly trouble you if you haven't already to try both these types of modules on the same earphone and share your thoughts on that? I' previously read that the modules were used on different earphones in your comparisons and I just thought perhaps it would be nice to eliminate another variable. Thanks!

 
I'm pretty sure I answered you previously on this - I tried both on the U6 and the U10 - with exactly the same results.  I'm trying to lose weight, so during my U10 review, I'd been doing a lot of walking. I'd test the U10 with APEX for 3 days, then switch to the U10 with ADEL.  I did the same with the U6 as well.  I actually liked the tuning of the APEX module with the U10 slightly better TBH (and the use of the vent location is brilliant for eliminating wind noise) - but with both IEMs, ear fatigue and my tinnitus flaring was more apparent with the Apex module than the ADEL.  For me personally, that was the whole reason for initially buying the U6 - taking care of my remaining hearing.
 
I am not the only one to notice this either.
 
Dec 2, 2016 at 7:19 PM Post #238 of 23,677
I'm pretty sure I answered you previously on this - I tried both on the U6 and the U10 - with exactly the same results.  I'm trying to lose weight, so during my U10 review, I'd been doing a lot of walking. I'd test the U10 with APEX for 3 days, then switch to the U10 with ADEL.  I did the same with the U6 as well.  I actually liked the tuning of the APEX module with the U10 slightly better TBH (and the use of the vent location is brilliant for eliminating wind noise) - but with both IEMs, ear fatigue and my tinnitus flaring was more apparent with the Apex module than the ADEL.  For me personally, that was the whole reason for initially buying the U6 - taking care of my remaining hearing.

I am not the only one to notice this either.


I see, apologies.

Thank you for your very concise yet detailed accounts on both these modules.
 
Dec 2, 2016 at 7:30 PM Post #239 of 23,677
Say if I happen to own both U12 and U10, can I exchange them for the U18 for free?
 
Dec 2, 2016 at 8:21 PM Post #240 of 23,677
   
Just a thought - but perhaps rather than making all these suppositions (above and many previous posts) - you refrain from commenting unless you have had the chance to listen to the modules and actually compare - including the differences and benefits. 

 
Brooko, you said it very clearly. I couldn't agree more. The past few posts have been speculative. Forum members can use and experience the product before posting comments about it. I can attest to the fact that my ringing in my ears is no more after using IEMS with ADEL modules. It is a huge difference. I don't feel any fatigue even after listening for 4-8 hours at a stretch. With normal IEMs 2 hours max and the ears show signs of fatigue.
 
It might be difficult for some to accept it at face value. So please try it out and experience it for yourself.
 

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