[cscales]

It would take something pretty special to see me part with my Bottlehead Mainline a Tricked out DNA Stratus would be top of the wish list but that's hard for me to justify at nearly three times the cost of the Mainline.

There's a Mainline for sale on CAM, all tricked out. The seller goes into a lot of detail about his mods, but it's over my head.

Thanks to Mortalcoil also for the Bryston recommendation. I see lots of talk about that one. One poster likes it better than the Auralic Taurus mk2 and the Headamp Gsx mk2. This will keep me busy for awhile. Thanks!

 

[Hansotek]

One useful OBJECTIVE measure of worth (as opposed to subjective qualities like SQ) is how much talk a product generates. Some threads here top out at 40 or 140 posts then...nothing. Look at the HD800; 21000+!!

Same for Chord and Schiit products. Lots of buzz. What this means for me and thee is we can feel OK about taking the plunge because down the road (yah, 6 months from now) someone will want our used gear, no problem. We can afford to take the loss once or twice, at least, right?

Hope that makes deciding easier. Good luck on the journey!

 
That would seem reasonable, but unfortunately, it's not really true in practice. Chord and Schitt have exceptionally sophisticated marketing and merchandising strategies (take it from me, I work at an ad agency). Understand that this doesn't mean that they are deceptive, or their is some kind of trickery involved (good marketing should never be that), rather, it means that they understand: 

1.) Who they are.
2.) Who their audience is.
3.) How to align their product with what their audience wants.
4.) And how to communicate that to their audience.
 
Think about the following (I'll use Schiit as the example): Have you ever noticed how Schitt's product pricing model fits into such nice, precise little tiers? Magni is $70 more than Fulla. Asgard is $70 more than Magni. Valhalla is $100 more than Asgard, Lyr is $100 more than Valhalla... drop three hundred or so on a nice set of tubes (very easy to do) and the Lyr starts getting up to $750, which is... guess what... $100 less than Mjolnir. They have planned your entire upgrade path for you!
 
Jason is (coming from a copywriter, by trade) an excellent copywriter. Their brand drips with attitude and and the guy is funny as heck. Have you ever read their website FAQ's? They are hilarious. And he does a great job of educating people on products. Before Yiggy came out, the folks talking about R2R multibit DACs were limited to a tiny group of Summit-fi'ers in a dark corner of Head-fi. Now, not only does virtually everyone know what R2R is, THEY ALL WANT IT! And guess who cornered the market? Schiit. Sure AGD has a few R2R products, and yada, yada, yada - but for the most part, Schiit is the only game in town.
 
And lastly, there is Stoddard's book (which is an outstanding read), published chapter-by-chapter on Head-fi. It serves as a wonderful way to humanize their brand to their audience. People know the whole backstory on the company... it's almost like you have a little part of it, too. And when people comment, he answers back!
 
It's not a conspiracy. It's not a scam. It's just being really, really good at business. And everybody is talking about them, which is exactly what is supposed to happen. You work your butt off and build these channels so your audience is talking about you, and with you, and about your products... and recommending those products to other people. It's textbook.
 
But also realize that the sound quality of their product is somewhat independent of that. I'm not saying their products are bad, they most certainly are not. But winning the popularity contest and having the best sounding product don't necessarily go hand-in-hand. If possible, always judge with your ears. They alone hold the truth.

 

[cscales]

That would seem reasonable, but unfortunately, it's not really true in practice. Chord and Schitt have exceptionally sophisticated marketing and merchandising strategies (take it from me, I work at an ad agency). Understand that this doesn't mean that they are deceptive, or their is some kind of trickery involved (good marketing should never be that), rather, it means that they understand: 


1.) Who they are.

2.) Who their audience is.

3.) How to align their product with what their audience wants.

4.) And how to communicate that to their audience.

Think about the following (I'll use Schiit as the example): Have you ever noticed how Schitt's product pricing model fits into such nice, precise little tiers? Magni is $70 more than Fulla. Asgard is $70 more than Magni. Valhalla is $100 more than Asgard, Lyr is $100 more than Valhalla... drop three hundred or so on a nice set of tubes (very easy to do) and the Lyr starts getting up to $750, which is... guess what... $100 less than Mjolnir. They have planned your entire upgrade path for you!

Jason is (coming from a copywriter, by trade) an excellent copywriter. Their brand drips with attitude and and the guy is funny as heck. Have you ever read their website FAQ's? They are hilarious. And he does a great job of educating people on products. Before Yiggy came out, the folks talking about R2R multibit DACs were limited to a tiny group of Summit-fi'ers in a dark corner of Head-fi. Now, not only does virtually everyone know what R2R is, THEY ALL WANT IT! And guess who cornered the market? Schiit. Sure AGD has a few R2R products, and yada, yada, yada - but for the most part, Schiit is the only game in town.

And lastly, there is Stoddard's book (which is an outstanding read), published chapter-by-chapter on Head-fi. It serves as a wonderful way to humanize their brand to their audience. People know the whole backstory on the company... it's almost like you have a little part of it, too. And when people comment, he answers back!

It's not a conspiracy. It's not a scam. It's just being really, really good at business. And everybody is talking about them, which is exactly what is supposed to happen. You work your butt off and build these channels so your audience is talking about you, and with you, and about your products... and recommending those products to other people. It's textbook.

But also realize that the sound quality of their product is somewhat independent of that. I'm not saying their products are bad, they most certainly are not. But winning the popularity contest and having the best sounding product don't necessarily go hand-in-hand. If possible, always judge with your ears. They alone hold the truth.

Hansotek, well put. You're not a bad writer yourself. +1 to everything you wrote. A well-oiled marketing machine is something to be wary of certainly.

Fortunately a forum like Head Fi is a great resource, enabling smart enthusiasts to filter out the hype surrounding any product. I can think of at least a couple recent products that sounded like the second coming judging from reviews, but ended up amounting to nothing much after Head Fi'ers got through with them.

To your comments I would like to add: a certain amount of JUSTIFIABLE hype is actually a benefit to us Audiophools. Our used Chord and Schiit gear will tend not to gather dust. It certainly helps that these two companies seem to actually walk the walk, and not just talk the talk. Being "slick" is OK as long as it's not just snake oil. Good chat!

By the by, you still have not chimed in with an amp suggestion. What else have you heard lately at meets?

Cheers!

 

[joshk4]

Yeah, the praise for this is crazy. I keep reading site after site, review after review. It's almost too good to be true. I still am drawn more to the Schiit set up. Kind of a lame reason, but I think the Schiit + HD800 looks aesthetically pleasing. Would look amazing on my desktop. Plus I've looked Schiit stuff in the past. But I do see the value in the Mojo (especially from a portable aspect). And that price! I just keep reading people saying that its actually a great pair with the HD800 and that they find it better then some higher end DAC/AMPs. Hard to wrap my head around that.

Mojo is really great and I'm using it as a portable for iem.

But the combination of Mojo + hd 800 still can't beat Hdvd 800 + hd 800. This is my own opinion though.

 

[Hansotek]

cscales, thanks. Amp recommendations always depend on budget and desired sound. From a general standpoint, I can tell you that this is the route I would go at some pretty common price points:

< $500 - Bottlehead Crack + Speedball
< $1000 - Cavalli Liquid Carbon
< $1500 - Questyle CMA800R
< $2000 - Cavalli Liquid Crimson @ show special price
< $3000 - DNA Stratus
< $4000 - Cavalli Liquid Gold

Subjectively, of the stuff on that list, the Crimson and Stratus are my favorites. The Crimson is still a steal, even at full price.

 

[listen4joy]

How crismon compare to stratus?

 

[shabta]

@cscales, thanks. Amp recommendations always depend on budget and desired sound. From a general standpoint, I can tell you that this is the route I would go at some pretty common price points:

< $500 - Bottlehead Crack + Speedball
< $1000 - Cavalli Liquid Carbon
< $1500 - Questyle CMA800R
< $2000 - Cavalli Liquid Crimson @ show special price
< $3000 - DNA Stratus
< $4000 - Cavalli Liquid Gold

Subjectively, of the stuff on that list, the Crimson and Stratus are my favorites. The Crimson is still a steal, even at full price.

Add the Icon Audio Hp8 Mkii. It's a much more expensive in the US, than over here. But I liked it better than the crack. It gives a lot of the holograohic sound of some of the high-end tube amps with maybe a hair less resolution than the very best. The punch down low is impressive, making the HD800s sound a wee bit warmer and bassier. Of course you have to chuck the stock tubes, but you can easily best them for not so much money.

 

[MickeyVee]

You can have it all!
Now that I have a speaker system on my desk, I don't know what I did without it.  Having a dual duty system, TOTL HP amp/DAC/speaker amp + speakers has ruined me.  Totally enjoying the setup and am at my end game
 
Quote:

  I'm tempted to get an end game amp for HD 800 and just be done with a finalized headphone system, but at the same time now thinking of getting decent mid sized monitors for desktop use, like the Focal 6s...decisions, decisions.

 

[MickeyVee]

I went through the same thing.  Given my upgraditis, changing system every 3-6 months and considering the spending and losses, I ended up with the McIntosh.  Figured I'd be there eventually so just bit the bullet.  I got a great deal at the 2014 TAVES show so I handed over my credit card, closed my eyes and went for it.  No more upgraditis and wanting.  I sold of ALL my extraneous stuff and am down to a one HP system. No looking back.
 
If you love the Mc, maybe wait for a deal or look for used.  Some have already been coming up used.
 
Quote:

For various reasons the McIntosh is out of the question. So, with the Mojo and McIntosh as 2 reference points for discussion, I am looking for comments from people who have heard and lust for that kind of holographic playback and have heard amps that are perhaps a little more reasonably priced than the McIntosh.

To be clear, I love the Mojo to death with my Senn's but it doesn't do what the McIntosh does. How far up the food chain do I need to go? I can't be flipping amps and absorbing the losses as I go. Any definite recommendations from anyone who can relate specifically to the holographic qualities of an amp?

 

[Hansotek]

How crismon compare to stratus?

I haven't been able to compare them head-to-head, but I'd be very hard-pressed to say one is better than the other. The regular MSRP on both is basically the same, and they both represent a significant value at just under $3k.

I can tell you what stands out about them, though.

The DNA Stratus really stands out in the mids. Vocals on the Stratus are quite possibly the best I have heard. Just so incredibly emotional and engaging. It is ultra romantic sounding, but at the same time, very crisp clear and detailed.

The Cavalli Liquid Crimson stands out to me for its insanely detailed treble and spectacularly impactful bass. I mean, that amp makes headphones do things you didn't know they could. As with all the Cavalli amps, the spirit of rock n' roll is very strong in this one!

You can't go wrong with either. They are really two of the very best of the best.

 

[jjacq]

I have the Mjolnir 2 right now for the HD800 and I have recently try the 74 reflektors but it was a bit veiled. I was wondering if anyone has other suggestions when it comes to tubes for the HD800, my HD800 is Anax modded as well.

 

[cuiter23]

Mojo is really great and I'm using it as a portable for iem.

But the combination of Mojo + hd 800 still can't beat Hdvd 800 + hd 800. This is my own opinion though.

 
Oh yea, no way the Mojo comes close to the HDVD800. 

 

[Zoom25]

 
You can have it all!
Now that I have a speaker system on my desk, I don't know what I did without it.  Having a dual duty system, TOTL HP amp/DAC/speaker amp + speakers has ruined me.  Totally enjoying the setup and am at my end game

I'm going the speakers route. I have monitors on all my floors, except the study room where I have my headphone system. Until now I didn't bother with speakers in that room because of acoustics and the fact its a smaller sized room. So I spent the last 2 days moving and reassembling stuff to bring in monitors in to that room as well. Its a lot more suited for speakers now. Now just to get some Isoacoustic stands and monitors. Thinking Focal solo 6 or Genelec 8040. Cant go any bigger unfortunately for that room and space. Will keep HD 800 for late night.

 

[Moonhead]

Listen to Genelec 8040 two days ago and they are bass Heavy and somewhat Muddy sounding next to AVI from uk, IMO.

 

[ubs28]

   
Oh yea, no way the Mojo comes close to the HDVD800. 

The Mojo doesn't even sound as good as the Chord Hugo.